The Brain Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 2 hours ago, fantastic_four said: I'm not sure of it, but I think he means that Rian Johnson's intent was to change the idea that only some people are born with Force sensitivity and that instead anyone is capable of controlling the Force. That's what Luke's speech to Rey about how the Force shouldn't be solely a thing used by the Jedi and the Sith seems to imply. I've seen a number of reviewers assume that Rian Johnson was trying to change that, but I'm not sure that was his intent. But I'm not clear on what Luke was trying to say, so I can't rule the idea out. Certainly until now the canon has always been midi-chlorians give people control of the Force, and not everyone has enough midi-chlorians to do it. Lucas thought about mentioning midi-chlorians that right from the start in Episode IV but didn't get it in until Phantom Menace. Thank you. This amplifies what I was trying to say. Also, did I see, or just imagine at the end, the "stable boy" 'move', or draw the broom to him, showing a spark of the "Force"????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Cataldo Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 You saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM8 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, comix4fun said: There's nothing false in expecting established characters with an established ethos to follow that ethos. My complaint isn't in Luke doing or not doing as I desire, it's in him doing or not doing as his established character dictates to forward a desired plot line. An unwinnable argument. You think the studio owed you a Luke you remembered. I think they gave us a Luke that is completely acceptable. But clearly there are those that feel the way you do and have made your voice heard on Rotten Tomatoes. Rip 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, The Brain said: Also, did I see, or just imagine at the end, the "stable boy" 'move', or draw the broom to him, showing a spark of the "Force"????? I didn't notice it myself, but I've heard others say the same thing. That, too, is indeterminate as to whether Rian was trying to say just anyone can use the Force if they set their mind to it, or just that this particular boy was born with a high midi-chlorian count. Does anyone feel like they completely understood why Luke thought the Jedi had to end with all of the talk about how the Force should be for everyone, not just the Jedi? Edited December 20, 2017 by fantastic_four Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fett Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, fantastic_four said: I didn't notice it myself, but I've heard others say the same thing. That, too, is indeterminate as to whether Rian was trying to say just anyone can use the Force if they set their mind to it, or just that this particular boy was born with a high midi-chlorian count. I totally get it. They got rid of the Force entirely. The little boy had a ring right? It must be the Schwartz. Edited December 20, 2017 by fett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, GM8 said: An unwinnable argument. You think the studio owed you a Luke you remembered. I think they gave us a Luke that is completely acceptable. But clearly there are those that feel the way you do and have made your voice heard on Rotten Tomatoes. They didn't owe me anything. They owed their own source material, and their own established characters and universe a story consistent with what was already shown and demonstrated. They didn't do that and, as consumers, I don't owe them anything either...such as turning my head and ignoring the glaring holes they blew through the established universe and characters therein. Twisting a well established character in order to set up a beaten-to-death plot device of "getting your groove back" to where he gets to where he should have always been in the first place is a schlock movie ploy. One of the reasons Rogue 1 worked so well is that those making the movie had fresh clay to mold their work within. They had a set moment in time, and had to get from A to B within the established continuity, but the characters were new to the viewer and could be molded in any way they saw fit. And it worked. Film makers cannot do the same thing with characters that already have an established pattern of actions, behavior, priorities and reactions to stimuli. If Rian Johnson didn't want to be encumbered by the Star Wars universe as it is then perhaps he should have done another movie, or taken on a Star Wars project outside the core universe and characters. He didn't, however, and I believe it's also completely acceptable to take him to task for abusing certain established characters for no other reason than tot get his story where he wants it to go....also for his horrible and overbearing sense of humor that destroyed the tone of the film and removed most of the tension that was aptly built before he intentionally wrecked it, repeatedly. Edited December 20, 2017 by comix4fun WolverineX, Azkaban, Mr Sneeze and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephisto Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 1 hour ago, fett said: tell him you heard that Luke Skywalker does something no other jedi has ever done. His sister?! Did he complete his destiny? Did it go Game if Thrones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fett Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 ha no he did not "FULLFILL HIS DESTINY", they just kissed a little. SW Trivia-how many times did Luke or Leia kiss the other? I missed this question when asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I like pie Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) 30 minutes ago, GM8 said: Is that something to be giddy about? Giddy would be, "The RT score dropped to 54%!" I find it very interesting, with such a high profile film, the the critic score is so high. How many of these critics have something to gain by posting a positive score or, more importantly, lose by giving a bad review. Edited December 20, 2017 by I like pie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, Mephisto said: His sister?! Did he complete his destiny? Did it go Game if Thrones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephisto Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Azkaban said: As soon as he threw the saber and starting milking teats I was waiting for it to be over “I have nipples Luke, could you milk me?” - Meet the Jedi staring Robert DeNiero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) Interesting interview with Rian Johnson in Fast Company today, wherein he explains that he knew some of his story decisions would likely alienate some fans, but everything was approved by the Lucas Story Group -- and Lucasfilm executive/super nerd Pablo Hidalgo specifically: Quote It helps that Lucasfilm has an entire division dedicated to protecting the Star Wars canon. “I leaned very much on my interactions with the Lucas Story Group and [Lucasfilm executive] Pablo Hildago specifically, in terms of us doing a gut check,” Johnson says. “What are the parameters of this thing? And does it still feel like something that would be within the realm of possibility for capabilities of the Force? “Pablo has this entire base of knowledge, but he’s never precious and he’s always open-minded,” Johnson continues. “He’s not protecting a toy he keeps sealed in its original packaging. He recognizes that if you’re making a movie and you want to tell a good story, you have to take the toys out of the box. You gotta play with them. You gotta keep pushing and doing new stuff. And every single new thing we did, we talked through at length. It’s there because the story needed it to be there and because it didn’t feel like it broke anything for us.” Edited December 20, 2017 by Gatsby77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artboy99 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Azkaban said: As soon as he threw the saber and starting milking teats I was waiting for it to be over I can not stress how much I hated that. jsilverjanet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM8 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 48 minutes ago, comix4fun said: They didn't owe me anything. They owed their own source material, and their own established characters and universe a story consistent with what was already shown and demonstrated. They didn't do that and, as consumers, I don't owe them anything either...such as turning my head and ignoring the glaring holes they blew through the established universe and characters therein. Twisting a well established character in order to set up a beaten-to-death plot device of "getting your groove back" to where he gets to where he should have always been in the first place is a schlock movie ploy. One of the reasons Rogue 1 worked so well is that those making the movie had fresh clay to mold their work within. They had a set moment in time, and had to get from A to B within the established continuity, but the characters were new to the viewer and could be molded in any way they saw fit. And it worked. Film makers cannot do the same thing with characters that already have an established pattern of actions, behavior, priorities and reactions to stimuli. If Rian Johnson didn't want to be encumbered by the Star Wars universe as it is then perhaps he should have done another movie, or taken on a Star Wars project outside the core universe and characters. He didn't, however, and I believe it's also completely acceptable to take him to task for abusing certain established characters for no other reason than tot get his story where he wants it to go....also for his horrible and overbearing sense of humor that destroyed the tone of the film and removed most of the tension that was aptly built before he intentionally wrecked it, repeatedly. (spoilers) I grew up with the original films and don't think there was anything blown up. Luke died. Han died in the last film, and even showed a little sappiness, did you flip out over that? He was never sappy before. I just don't get it. It would have been great if Luke was restored to greatness and ran a new Jedi academy and whatever. But he died saving the resistance just like Obi-Wan. No glaring hole. No universe blown up. No character blown up. Just different than you and some other holdouts expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 14 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said: Interesting interview with Rian Johnson in Fast Company today, wherein he explains that he knew some of his story decisions would likely alienate some fans, but everything was approved by the Lucas Story Group -- and Lucasfilm executive/super nerd Pablo Hidalgo specifically: Interesting and great to hear they have that department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM8 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 51 minutes ago, I like pie said: Giddy would be, "The RT score dropped to 54%!" I find it very interesting, with such a high profile film, the the critic score is so high. How many of these critics have something to gain by posting a positive score or, more importantly, lose by giving a bad review. Or those were genuine reviews and the ones downvoting it were just responding to nostalgic groupthink? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsilverjanet Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 This comparison of Luke to Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan went to the fight, Luke did not. its okay to be honest about the movie. No one is going to take away your droids if you do. The excuses being made for this poo-show are incredible. this movie sets up what? How did the characters grow or move from the last film. If there goal was to put an end to the characters of the last trilogy and create a new universe there’s a way to do that without betraying the characters that have already been established. Those who loved the film, be honest you had to eyeroll Leas space flight or when it was revealed Luke was a hologram. If you thought both were great, well then there’s no point discussing this further aardvark88 and Azkaban 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, I like pie said: Giddy would be, "The RT score dropped to 54%!" I find it very interesting, with such a high profile film, the the critic score is so high. How many of these critics have something to gain by posting a positive score or, more importantly, lose by giving a bad review. Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic audience scores are still the outliners unless someone knows of another large audience polling here are the other major ones listed below. IMDB (7.8), Fandango 4/5, Cinemascore A, Google users 78%, and ComScore/Screen Engine 82%. Edited December 20, 2017 by Rip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 I had no opinion about Leia in space. What laws of physics and/or human physiology did it violate? I know you can last about 10 to 20 seconds in space before you pass out, but I didn't time the scene to know if it broke that barrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Rip said: Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic audience scores are still the outliners unless someone knows of another large polling here are the other major ones listed below. IMDB (7.8), Fandango 4/5, Cinemascore A, Google users 78%, and ComScore/Screen Engine 82%. I've seen a LOT of Metacritic audience scores on various games and movies that were absurdly low. I don't know why it happens so often on that site, but it seems clear that hating something motivates you to post a review more than liking it. Edited December 20, 2017 by fantastic_four Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
