STAR WARS : Episode VIII December 15, 2017 4 4

[paperheart]

i'm confused about the BO comparisons to Rogue One.  isn't this going to pass RO's worldwide BO by next Monday?

[Chip Cataldo]

[jsilverjanet]

[jsilverjanet]

[jsilverjanet]

[jsilverjanet]

 

[I like pie]

1 hour ago, Chip Cataldo said:

Sorry to burst your bubble but they both knew they had to stay alive to train The New Hope when he came of age. That's why they were laying low.

[comix4fun]

18 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

contrary to many of the assertions by posters in this thread -- very little of what what shown in Episode VIII contravened anything shown in Episode VII, or was contrary to how a 30 years-later Luke might have behaved.

 

Aside from the dozens of portents, omens, allusions, moments of foreshadowing and narrative long-form plot development in VII....

If you can watch the last five minutes of VII and the first five minutes of VIII and say that, well, then.....

[Gatsby77]

21 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Aside from the dozens of portents, omens, allusions, moments of foreshadowing and narrative long-form plot development in VII....

If you can watch the last five minutes of VII and the first five minutes of VIII and say that, well, then.....

I really liked that TLJ didn't take the obvious, expected (or easy) way out -- in that scene or many others.

And no -- at the end of Episode VII we had _no idea_ how Luke would react to Rey.

A lot of the griping I see isn't actually about contradictions between VII and VIII, but rather that fanboys imagined how they wanted things to go in VIII, only to see their theories dashed.

- Luke had every right to throw the lightsaber away and turn his back on Rey (as I've stated before, not much different from how Yoda reacted to Luke upon first meeting -- teasing him and going home to cook dinner) or how-- you know, Luke previously threw his lightsaber away in two different battles with Vader.

- Even if we believe Kylo is telling the truth, having Rey be "nobody" is a strong choice -- as noted, Anakin was nobody as well. And Rey herself told Maz she was nobody all the way back in one of the trailers for Episode VII.

- Leia exhibited her Force sensitivity as far back as Empire, before we even knew she was related to Luke.

- Aside from the fact that we got no backstory on the Emperor in the original trilogy, positioning Kylo Ren as the true big bad -- and one who failed to be redeemed as Vader was after murdering his master -- makes it far more interesting than simply rehashing the Palpatine-Vader relationship. 

(Although -- personally I would have preferred the fan theory that Snoke was not Darth Plagueis but actually Skywalker himself -- again, this goes to the point that when we meet him we have _zero_ idea how Luke has changed in the intervening 30+ years since Jedi -- so his actions didn't seem out-of-character to me, given what we're told transpired in the interim. Oh, and he's a mopey, self-centered farmer? You mean - exactly like he was in Star Wars?)

- I'm also convinced a lot of folks are mad that Luke was killed off when Leia wasn't. We were led to believe Leia would die in this chapter -- both from the trailer and Carrie Fisher's untimely passing. That she didn't (and Luke did) was probably the biggest twist in this film, and one for which I applaud the writers and producers.

 

These points (and more) have been more eloquently stated by hundreds of reviewers (both fan and professional) -- but I wasn't swayed by them alone -- I formed the bulk of my opinion having simply watched the film.

[comix4fun]

2 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

I really liked that TLJ didn't take the obvious, expected (or easy) way out -- in that scene or many others.

 

Aside from the fact that the ENTIRETY of The Force Awakens was consumed by THE SEARCH FOR LUKE SKYWALKER, by both the Imperial and Rebel forces? 

All of that build up, all the characters that died, all to reach that one goal, and none of it rings like a bait and switch in any way? 

That final scene of TFA had real weight, real gravity...it was tangible.  And all that was missing from how TLJ continued the scene, in its disrespect and disconnect,  was Luke making an armpit fart after tossing the saber away.

The complete lack of thematic continuity is more than a small problem with this film....the decisions made in TLJ are certainly and definitively contraventions of almost every plot and thematic point made in TFA. 

Edited December 26, 2017 by comix4fun

[CAHokie]

Shut it fanboy! 

[WernerVonDoom]

2 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

A lot of the griping I see isn't actually about contradictions between VII and VIII, but rather that fanboys imagined how they wanted things to go in VIII, only to see their theories dashed.

 

You nailed it. I imagined VIII wasn't going to be a pile of dung and my theory was dashed.

[ComicConnoisseur]

It was a good movie. Much better than what the die hards are making out of it.

The question is was it a good Star Wars movie?

Sadly, to many old timers it is not.

I think a lot of the dissatisfaction is know one wants to see their heroes age and die in front of their eyes like the orginal characters have these last two movies. As we see them age it reminds their fanbase they are aging as well. Know one wants to be reminded of that. 

Really they had to make these changes as the original cast members are aging, and need the younger characters to grow their fanbase. Mark Hammil is older now than Ben was in the first Star Wars.

Our Star Wars is dead for our generation after this movie. That's sad, but Star Wars : The Last Jedi succeeded so much better than the DC Universe with setting itself up better in the future for believability with their characters. 

So inconclusion if you are a young fan or not a die hard you will love this movie, but if you are a die hard with a religious outlook about Star Wars than let the tears flow.

 

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

47 minutes ago, Werner_Von_Doom said:

You nailed it. I imagined VIII wasn't going to be a pile of dung and my theory was dashed.

It wasn't that bad.

Spoiler

They really gave old Luke a good send off. It doesn't get better than that.

 

Edited December 26, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[Bosco685]

1 minute ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Same with me.

  Reveal hidden contents

They really gave old Luke a good send off. It doesn't get better than that.

 

You felt that was a great send-off to...

Spoiler

Luke, puffing into the wind to join The Force?

It just didn't feel like there was any honoring of the character. Other than getting that person out of the way of future stories.

[WernerVonDoom]

12 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I think a lot of the dissatisfaction is know one wants to see their heroes age and die in front of their eyes like the orginal characters have these last two movies. As we see them age it reminds their fanbase they are aging as well. Know one wants to be reminded of that.

I'm sure a few feel that way, but most people I've talked to that disliked VIII assumed that most, if not all, of the original characters were going to die in this "trilogy" (before it started).  They just wanted good movies.

[Bosco685]

1 minute ago, Werner_Von_Doom said:

I'm sure a few feel that way, but most people I've talked to that disliked VIII assumed that most, if not all, of the original characters were going to die in this "trilogy" (before it started).  They just wanted good movies.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Just now, Bosco685 said:

You felt that was a great send-off to...

  Reveal hidden contents

Luke, puffing into the wind to join The Force?

It just didn't feel like there was any honoring of the character. Other than getting that person out of the way of future stories.

That's the point. He is old now. What if the actor Mark Hamil unexpectedly dies like Carrie Fisher?

Spoiler

They tied up his part before he passes on or gets too old to play the part. I think they handled his going away with honor. How else would you want him to go?

Our Star Wars is over and it is time to pass the baton to the younger fans. I seen the same thing with Spider-Man Homecoming. The old fans not wanting to accept the changes for the younger audiences. These changes have to made for the younger audiences to keep both Star Wars and Spider-Man relevant or they will both become as relevant as Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon.

 

[Bosco685]

Just now, ComicConnoisseur said:

That's the point. He is old now. What if the actor Mark Hamil unexpectedly dies like Carrie Fisher?

  Reveal hidden contents

They tied up his part before he passes on or gets too old to play the part. I think they handled his going away with honor. How else would you want him to go?

Our Star Wars is over and it is time to pass the baton to the younger fans. I seen the same thing with Spider-Man Homecoming. The old fans not wanting to accept the changes for the younger audiences. These changes have to made for the younger audiences to keep both Star Wars and Spider-Man relevant or they will both become as relevant as Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon.

But it wasn't about him being old, and long-time fans feeling like the better days were behind them. That's the misinterpretation of what is being conveyed.

Spoiler

Rather than Luke doing an other-world projection of himself which then sapped so much of his energy he died, right from the beginning of this new run he should have been the steady character he has been throughout the overall franchise.

Part of what you may have missed is some of the discussion on here right from his time dealing with Kylo Ren, it should have been the same steadfast Luke setting the stage for a handoff to the new characters. Not detracting from his given backstory and characteristics by making him less than who he is.

That appears to be the primary gap. But not a situation of Luke continuing on as the central character. That would get old real fast if this HUGE universe only has one strong savior.

See where this may be a different concern?

[WernerVonDoom]

Getting out of the way?  What was there an overabundance of Mark Hamill's Luke Skywalker in the past 34 years? That 15 seconds at the end Force Awakens was too much?  Having Luke in a Star Wars movie was rare, precious, and fleeting.  They squandered it.