STAR WARS : Episode VIII December 15, 2017 4 4

[comix4fun]

33 minutes ago, miraclemet said:

Saw it for the second time Saturday. 

Checking multiple theaters here in the DC suburbs of Maryland most theaters were 75-90% pre-sold.Theaters still doing 2 to 4 screens of TLJ. 

Second viewing let me enjoy small items like little facial expressions and small comments in the movie,made for an enhancement on second viewing.

Over I still really enjoyed this movie as a hardcore Star Wars fan. Saw ANH and ESB back in '80 at 5 years old. The Force Awakens made me feel like a kid again, but The Last Jedi made me feel like an adult who had grown up in the Star Wars universe. 

Thoughts on the characterization of Old Luke. Last time we saw him he was a 20 something year old hero who had never failed. Blow up the death star? Sure. Redeem your father so he can join the force? Sure. Take out an AT-AT with your bare hands? Yep. Rescue your friend from Java? Got it. You are on a roll. You think sure I can start up a Jedi Academy, what could go wrong?

Then it goes wrong. Luke has failed for the first time, and in a way that hits close to home (his nephew turning to the dark side), and how does he react. He runs. You can say "oh thats not in character?" but how do we know? We haven't see this character respond to such direct failure, and he wouldn't be the first "hero" to run when it gets tough.

But the hero comes back. Trains one more Jedi. And uses his skill to save the day, at his own sacrifice. I think it was a fitting end, and a more interesting arc for Luke.

I liked: 90% of the humor, porgs, the hyperspace maneuver, Poe getting shot by Leia, every second of the throne room fight, force chatting, and Lukes final battle.

The parts that didn't work for me were...

1. Laura Den. Had trouble not thinking of her as Laura Den when ever she was on screen. Don't know if the character needed more fleshing out at the start or what.

2. The casino plot line. I liked everything accomplished as a result of this arc,but thought the casino arc to acomplish it was a bit long and  bit heavy handed. I liked what it did (showed a side beyond the Order and the Rebels, gave a chance to flesh out Rose, introduce some moral ambiguity in the galaxy).

3. The scene where Leia saves herself with the force. I liked her using the force. I liked her saving herself. I just thought the way it was shot was too "magical" too fantastical (especially for it beings first time we really see Leia use the force, outside of the occasional "I felt it" force moments). Maybe if something had been shown in TFA so this didn't feel like such a leap, or if it was shot differently...

I liked a ton in this movie. Poe's journey from flyby to leader. Rose. Rey. The big moment with Rey saving the Rebels. Kylo being one of the best big franchise villains in the last 20 years, angry, conflicted, dynamic, broken, I love watching him cause I never know which way he will swing at a given moment. I loved little moments between Commander D'Arcy and Lt Connix. 

I'll see it again 

That’s a great write up. I disagree with the premise behind your Luke as adult analysis, but I can appreciate how you get there. 

Lukes suffered a great deal of failure and loss long before what happens in the flashbacks in TLJ. He’s too late to save Owen and Beru, that’s both failure and loss. He watches his oldest friend die in the attack on the first Death Star. He’s about to get killed himself and gets bailed out by his friend.  He fails over and over again in his training with yoda. He fails in confronting Vader in Esb, losing his innocence, his confidence, his faith in Ben and Yoda, and his hand. He’s got to be again bailed out and saved by his friends. In Jedi he’s overconfident and overestimates his abilities against jabba, failing and being captured in the process, and is forced to regroup and work with his friends to escape. He realizes his father has a connection through the force ( end of Esb) yet still goes on the super secret mission to Endor and blows their cover entirely. Which forces him to confront Vader again to try and redeem him, which he actually fails at miserably. It was Palpatine’s actions, on the verge of murdering the fallen and failed Luke and with Luke convulsing from Palpatine’s massive force Taser, that pulls Vader back from the dark side. Luke saved Vader through , again , failing in what he originally intended to do. 

I don’t see Luke as a guy who never failed. I see Luke as a guy who failed repeatedly throughout the original trilogy but found ways to overcome and eventually succeed with the help of friends, family and mentors. 

[NewEnglandGothic]

14 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

 In Jedi he’s overconfident and overestimates his abilities against jabba, failing and being captured in the process, and is forced to regroup and work with his friends to escape.

I'm sorry, but I always looked at that opening gambit in ROTJ, as a kind of A-Team type plan, where it showed all their teamwork at play to free Han.

There was no instant where Luke in the dungeon, decided to plant a lightsaber in R2-D2 to escape with Han and Chewie.

Luke went there to intimidate, to get captured, so he could be on the "inside."

As Hannibal always said on the A-Team, "It's all part of the plan."  

[miraclemet]

23 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

That’s a great write up. I disagree with the premise behind your Luke as adult analysis, but I can appreciate how you got there.

and I can understand your take too and how from that you might be disappointedwith Lukes TLJ characterizations as a result. 

 

[Foley]

Any idea where the Sith rule of 2 will go from here with the death of Snoke? Has it been abandoned? Will Kylo train an apprentice? Is Snoke not really dead?

[comix4fun]

34 minutes ago, NewEnglandGothic said:

I'm sorry, but I always looked at that opening gambit in ROTJ, as a kind of A-Team type plan, where it showed all their teamwork at play to free Han.

There was no instant where Luke in the dungeon, decided to plant a lightsaber in R2-D2 to escape with Han and Chewie.

Luke went there to intimidate, to get captured, so he could be on the "inside."

As Hannibal always said on the A-Team, "It's all part of the plan."  

I think you're describing his "Plan B". 

His "Plan A" had nothing to do with taking on a Rancor with a bone and a stone as his choice of weapons. 

He gave the droids to Jabba so they'd be in the throne room when he arrived so he'd have the lightsaber there when he needed it, which turned out to be silly because he mind-tricked the guards to let him pass anyway. It still worked in "Plan B" because the droids were still present. 

Plan A didn't have anything to do with getting caught. 

Edited January 1, 2018 by comix4fun

[NewEnglandGothic]

3 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

I think you're describing his "Plan B". 

His "Plan A" had nothing to do with taking on a Rancor with a bone and a stone as his choice of weapons. 

He gave the droids to Jabba so they'd be in the throne room when he arrived so he'd have the lightsaber there when he needed it, which turned out to be silly because he mind-tricked the guards to let him pass anyway. It still worked in "Plan B" because the droids were still present. 

Plan A didn't have anything to do with getting caught. 

I just always looked at in a theatrical "Mission: Impossible" way for audiences to get caught up in the action.

Granted, the Rancor was a monkeywrench, but I always felt Leia's job was to unfreeze Han and get caught too(with Chewie,) like Luke. I know that sounds stupid, but maybe for her to get close to Jabba to kill.  I mean Billy Dee was just waiting all along for the right moment too.

I just watched it again and still feel that this was all one big plan to have it's climax out in the open at the Sarlaac Pit. I'll watch it with the commentary on a little later.

[fett]

21 hours ago, Broke as a Joke said:

The way they painted Luke out to be in TLJ, it made it highly unlikely that he fathered any children during his hiatus.  Rey being a nobody is the least of the movies weaknesses imo.

hey he's a farmboy from Tatooine. Did you see the way he walked up to that sea cow and milked it? Old hat to someone of his experience. 

[NewEnglandGothic]

On ‎12‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 2:46 PM, ComicConnoisseur said:

In fact Last Jedi was better to me than Return of the Jedi. No silly Ewoks!

Watching ROTJ now, I never realized when the ewoks attacked the stormtroopers at the end, they were doing it as a distraction for Han and Leia to shutdown the shield.

They knew they had no chance, but they kept trying to keep the stormtroopers engaged in them and away from the others.

It seems more poignant now, with their sacrifice they do for a greater good they can understand in another language.

The funny thing during that sequence, they  started making progress overcoming technology.  

Edited January 1, 2018 by NewEnglandGothic

[miraclemet]

8 minutes ago, NewEnglandGothic said:

I just always looked at in a theatrical "Mission: Impossible" way for audiences to get caught up in the action.

Granted, the Rancor was a monkeywrench, but I always felt Leia's job was to unfreeze Han and get caught too(with Chewie,) like Luke. I know that sounds stupid, but maybe for her to get close to Jabba to kill.  I mean Billy Dee was just waiting all along for the right moment too.

I just watched it again and still feel that this was all one big plan to have it's climax out in the open at the Sarlaac Pit. I'll watch it with the commentary on a little later.

to support your "big plan" theory, Luke being from Tatooine would be familiar with Jaba's exploits bith with the arancor and the Sarlaac pit, makes sense that it was all planned as a Plan A Leia tries to get Han away, but if she gets discovered, plan B is Luke coming in to dp rhe sarlaac pit/R2 lightsaber shot.

[miraclemet]

27 minutes ago, Foley said:

Any idea where the Sith rule of 2 will go from here with the death of Snoke? Has it been abandoned? Will Kylo train an apprentice? Is Snoke not really dead?

Apparently in some of the Las Jedi press there is a biography of  Snoke and a reference to a second apprentice... Might have been cut from the movie...

[NewEnglandGothic]

5 minutes ago, miraclemet said:

to support your "big plan" theory, Luke being from Tatooine would be familiar with Jaba's exploits bith with the arancor and the Sarlaac pit, makes sense that it was all planned as a Plan A Leia tries to get Han away, but if she gets discovered, plan B is Luke coming in to dp rhe sarlaac pit/R2 lightsaber shot.

Then why didn't Billy Dee Williams just bust him out since he was already there, instead of bringing in Chewie too?

She could have just entered the court with her holy hand grenade and bargained for their lives, without using Chewie at all.

So, now they have rescue Chewie, jeopardizing their mission.

Chewbecca was needed for brute force on the skiff to protect Han.

 

All in all, it's just been my interpretation, that these guys don't need a "Plan B' with a bunch low-life bounty hunters.

[Foolkiller]

13 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

That’s a great write up. I disagree with the premise behind your Luke as adult analysis, but I can appreciate how you get there. 

Lukes suffered a great deal of failure and loss long before what happens in the flashbacks in TLJ. He’s too late to save Owen and Beru, that’s both failure and loss. He watches his oldest friend die in the attack on the first Death Star. He’s about to get killed himself and gets bailed out by his friend.  He fails over and over again in his training with yoda. He fails in confronting Vader in Esb, losing his innocence, his confidence, his faith in Ben and Yoda, and his hand. He’s got to be again bailed out and saved by his friends. In Jedi he’s overconfident and overestimates his abilities against jabba, failing and being captured in the process, and is forced to regroup and work with his friends to escape. He realizes his father has a connection through the force ( end of Esb) yet still goes on the super secret mission to Endor and blows their cover entirely. Which forces him to confront Vader again to try and redeem him, which he actually fails at miserably. It was Palpatine’s actions, on the verge of murdering the fallen and failed Luke and with Luke convulsing from Palpatine’s massive force Taser, that pulls Vader back from the dark side. Luke saved Vader through , again , failing in what he originally intended to do. 

I don’t see Luke as a guy who never failed. I see Luke as a guy who failed repeatedly throughout the original trilogy but found ways to overcome and eventually succeed with the help of friends, family and mentors. 

The other thing is, why did he believe Vader could be redeemed but Ben Solo can't be.  I don't know there's just so much unexplained and the whole Luke treatment is silly.  Other masters have failed in training and that part is an interesting thread.  But I think a force ghost convo that included Obi Wan on that subject would have been great.  

[Foley]

I don't think it ever explicitly stated he didn't think Ben Solo could be redeemed. He obviously considered the fact, yes, but ultimately he extinguished his lightsaber and reason seemed to prevail. By then it was too late as Ben had woken up and thought he was going to be killed.

[Chip Cataldo]

2 hours ago, Foley said:

Any idea where the Sith rule of 2 will go from here with the death of Snoke? Has it been abandoned? Will Kylo train an apprentice? Is Snoke not really dead?

 Snoke wasn't a Sith, so the rule of two doesn't apply. 

[Foley]

10 minutes ago, Chip Cataldo said:

 Snoke wasn't a Sith, so the rule of two doesn't apply. 

Ah, I hadn't realized, thanks. So the Sith effectively became extinct with the Deaths of Vader and Sidious?

[I like pie]

25 minutes ago, Foley said:

Ah, I hadn't realized, thanks. So the Sith effectively became extinct with the Deaths of Vader and Sidious?

Apparently but who knows what Abrams will do.

Opening scene to episode IX : 

Luke awakens from a terrible dream that he wasn't a Jedi anymore and Disney cut off his pecker.

He named his dream episode VIII.

[rjrjr]

8 hours ago, Foley said:

Any idea where the Sith rule of 2 will go from here with the death of Snoke? Has it been abandoned? Will Kylo train an apprentice? Is Snoke not really dead?

I am not convinced Snoke is a Sith.  Has it been mentioned anywhere (books, etc.) that he is?

[Chip Cataldo]

1 hour ago, rjrjr said:

I am not convinced Snoke is a Sith.  Has it been mentioned anywhere (books, etc.) that he is?

 It was specifically said that he was not. 

[The Shoveler]

My favorite part is when Rose rescued the abused, brutalized horses from captivity...and left behind the children in slavery.

 

[The Shoveler]

14 hours ago, NewEnglandGothic said:

What strikes me a bizarre in this thread is how some folks keep claiming “The Force Awakens” is a rip-off off “Star Wars,” by regurgitating its plot about 38 years later. But, no one (that I saw) has even mentioned how much stuff George Lucas “borrowed” from Akira Kurosawa’s “The Hidden Fortress” from 1958 for “Star Wars” in the first place. I just saw the Criterion of this one about a month ago and was blown away how good it was and I am a Star Wars fan, that will probably look at the original in a different light now as (gasp) a rehash of that movie’s prime elements (two peasants who became droids, the scene wipes, the samurai/Jedi, the princess, etc.)

There's definitely some goodness in the Criterion Collection's remasters of the Kurosawa films.  Here's a couple of trailer mash-ups for anyone who may be unfamiliar with The Hidden Fortress:

 

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by The Shoveler
fixing my Yoda-like grammar