STAR WARS : Episode VIII December 15, 2017 4 4

[Buzzetta]

3 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

The Last Jedi sucked, and I don't think Kathleen Kennedy is to blame, only Rian Johnson.

So I don't think this really matters much.

Unless you think KK is responsible for filming 30 mins of literally useless subplot, giving Chewbacca literally nothing to do all film, expanding on nothing built in the prior episode, creating dialogue that reduces Fin's and Po's characters to nothing (why bother following these characters if they're not important?), turning every legacy character into on-screen turds while simultaneously providing us no additional development on new characters, no lightsaber duel, filming scenes with plot holes and then not bothering to edit the scenes "because fans won't notice" i.e. chamber fight sequence where a guard has 2 blades, etc etc etc...

Sucked - First of all this is a "all audience" board for all age levels.  We do not say "sucked".  Please use the term, "preformed like a vacuum."

Chewbacca - Chewbacca inherits the Falcon.  Chewbacca was the driver that brought Rey to the island.  Luke needed to see any of his old friends to bring him back to reality.  Leia is off doing leader things, 3PO is not getting about the island.  When Luke sees Chewie that is when the death of Han hits home. 

I feel that Force Awakens was painfully weak as far as advancing the story line.  Force Awakens made me appreciate the Prequels even more.  I like what Johnson did.  Luke is a man that is lost in his faith.  A friend from high school studied to become a religious brother.  He remained in the order for 10 years and things happened and he is getting married in a couple of weeks.  Luke is a man who lost his faith and had to reclaim himself.  I liked what Johnson did with this movie. 

Lightsaber Duels - Johnson wanted to do something different.  I have seen lightsaber duels and this was something fresh.  I actually enjoyed this as I have seen something like this in the Clone Wars cartoon but never in the live action films. 

Believe me that I am by no means a Star Wars fanboy.  There are issues with every movie.  However, the constant, Star Wars 8 has ruined it for everyone?  Bah.  I personally know a LOT of kids that loved every second of it and it encouraged them to watch the others. 

Star Wars 8 succeeded.  It made ridiculous money.  They will continue making more. 

[Buzzetta]

1 minute ago, Gatsby77 said:

I actually do.

Kennedy is the showrunner here -- every one of Rian Johnson's choices -- from the early --script through to post-production -- had to be approved by her as well as the Lucasfilm Story Group (including Pablo Hidalgo and others).

As you know, she's not shy about firing directors if their vision differs from that of hers and the Story Group (witness the firings of Lord and Miller, Colin Treverrow, Gareth Edwards (in post), and Josh Trank.

You know who wasn't fired? Rian Johnson.

Because he had her full faith and credit.

And -- with $620 million domestic (a % drop in line with the drops of Empire and Attack of the Clones over the first chapters) and a 91% critical rating from Rotten Tomatoes, I'd say she chose Rian Johnson wisely.

What Gatsby77 said. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

4 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

I actually do.

Kennedy is the showrunner here -- every one of Rian Johnson's choices -- from the early --script through to post-production -- had to be approved by her as well as the Lucasfilm Story Group (including Pablo Hidalgo and others).

As you know, she's not shy about firing directors if their vision differs from that of hers and the Story Group (witness the firings of Lord and Miller, Colin Treverrow, Gareth Edwards (in post), and Josh Trank.

You know who wasn't fired? Rian Johnson.

Because he had her full faith and credit.

And -- with $620 million domestic (a % drop in line with the drops of Empire and Attack of the Clones over the first chapters) and a 91% critical rating from Rotten Tomatoes, I'd say she chose Rian Johnson wisely.

No.

Disney is known to "ban" critics from pre-screenings, etc, that don't review their materials positively. I think The Last Jedi proves this. How can such a "meh" movie overall, and a god-awful "Star Wars" movie, receive such high praise? It's an awful example of film making. It's an even worse example of Star Wars.

[theCapraAegagrus]

15 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

Sucked - First of all this is a "all audience" board for all age levels.  We do not say "sucked".  Please use the term, "preformed like a vacuum."

Chewbacca - Chewbacca inherits the Falcon.  Chewbacca was the driver that brought Rey to the island.  Luke needed to see any of his old friends to bring him back to reality.  Leia is off doing leader things, 3PO is not getting about the island.  When Luke sees Chewie that is when the death of Han hits home. 

I feel that Force Awakens was painfully weak as far as advancing the story line.  Force Awakens made me appreciate the Prequels even more.  I like what Johnson did.  Luke is a man that is lost in his faith.  A friend from high school studied to become a religious brother.  He remained in the order for 10 years and things happened and he is getting married in a couple of weeks.  Luke is a man who lost his faith and had to reclaim himself.  I liked what Johnson did with this movie. 

Lightsaber Duels - Johnson wanted to do something different.  I have seen lightsaber duels and this was something fresh.  I actually enjoyed this as I have seen something like this in the Clone Wars cartoon but never in the live action films. 

Believe me that I am by no means a Star Wars fanboy.  There are issues with every movie.  However, the constant, Star Wars 8 has ruined it for everyone?  Bah.  I personally know a LOT of kids that loved every second of it and it encouraged them to watch the others. 

Star Wars 8 succeeded.  It made ridiculous money.  They will continue making more. 

I'm confused... Are you suggesting that Chewbacca co-piloting the Millennium Falcon actually consists of "doing something"..? I mean, technically, he "did" something, but let's be real, he impacted the movie in no way, shape, or form.

You're telling me that the guy WHO WENT AGAINST THE ODDS TO PROVE THAT THERE IS STILL GOOD IN DARTH FREAKING VADER WAS THAT TRAUMATIZED BY SEEING THE DARK SIDE IN HIS NEPHEW THAT NOT ONLY DID HE TRY TO MURDER HIM (ALLEGEDLY), BUT AFTERWARDS WENT INTO HIDING AND CRIED LIKE A LITTLE BABY FOR ALL THESE YEARS, JUST TO ALLOW KYLO REN AND THE FIRST ORDER TO BRING THE SHADOW OF AN EMPIRE BACK TO POWER!?

If you liked this movie, then we have nothing more to discuss because, by all means this was an awful film and the worst live-action adaptation of something that somehow received a "Star Wars" title. I guess when you see dog poop on your front lawn, you need more than a good look or sniff to understand that it's dog s^&*?

The only thing that The Last Jedi succeeded in doing is completely fracturing their fanbase and destroying the fandom for a lot of people that didn't deserve this. No one deserved this. There are not enough positives in that movie to make up for the Grade-A horse s^&* that you're forced to watch if you want to understand what happened between Episodes VII and outside-affiliatelinksnotallowed (roman numeral 9 is blocked?).

Edited October 1, 2018 by TwoPiece

[awakeintheashes]

29 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

I'm confused... Are you suggesting that Chewbacca co-piloting the Millennium Falcon actually consists of "doing something"..? I mean, technically, he "did" something, but let's be real, he impacted the movie in no way, shape, or form.

You're telling me that the guy WHO WENT AGAINST THE ODDS TO PROVE THAT THERE IS STILL GOOD IN DARTH FREAKING VADER WAS THAT TRAUMATIZED BY SEEING THE DARK SIDE IN HIS NEPHEW THAT NOT ONLY DID HE TRY TO MURDER HIM (ALLEGEDLY), BUT AFTERWARDS WENT INTO HIDING AND CRIED LIKE A LITTLE BABY FOR ALL THESE YEARS, JUST TO ALLOW KYLO REN AND THE FIRST ORDER TO BRING THE SHADOW OF AN EMPIRE BACK TO POWER!?

If you liked this movie, then we have nothing more to discuss because, by all means this was an awful film and the worst live-action adaptation of something that somehow received a "Star Wars" title. I guess when you see dog poop on your front lawn, you need more than a good look or sniff to understand that it's dog s^&*?

The only thing that The Last Jedi succeeded in doing is completely fracturing their fanbase and destroying the fandom for a lot of people that didn't deserve this. No one deserved this. There are not enough positives in that movie to make up for the Grade-A horse s^&* that you're forced to watch if you want to understand what happened between Episodes VII and outside-affiliatelinksnotallowed

Luke went into hiding because he realized, like others before him, that the Jedi didn't accomplish much in preventing the Sith and the Dark Side from advancing its agenda. In fact, it can be argued the Jedi made things worse.  Qui-Gon, Anakin, Ahsoka Tano and others struggled with this.

Luke didn't allow Kylo Ren and the First Order to bring the shadow of the Empire back to power. The politics of the New Republic Senate and its inability to govern did. 

The New Republic Senate had become divided into two parties: the Populists led by Leia Organa, who wanted to decentralize authority, and the Centrists, who wanted power to remain concentrated in a strong central government. Many of the Centrists were former Imperials who admired the old Empire for bringing order to the galaxy, and who feared that without strong central control the New Republic would become as weak and ineffectual as the Old Republic. Ultimately, many Centrist worlds seceded from the New Republic to reunite with the holdout Imperial remnants on the fringe of the galaxy, and formally combined into a new government called "the First Order". First Order conspirators publicly revealed that Leia was in fact the daughter of Darth Vader, severely harming her political standing among the remaining Populists.

The vast majority of the New Republic's worlds remained intact, but with the exodus of the Centrists its Senate became dominated by the remaining Populists, who favored decentralization and demilitarization, not confrontation. Even after these events, most in the remaining Senate were happy to see the Centrists go, feeling that the new First Order still controlled far too few sectors of the galaxy to ever pose a serious threat to galactic peace. In their view, it was easier to just let the Centrist worlds peacefully leave of their own volition and rejoin the Imperial worlds rather than fight a war to keep them by force.

Luke isn't to blame, and I don't blame him for originally rejecting the calls for help.

I don't think TLJ was a bad movie. I enjoyed it. But, I do believe it was a different movie than what some fans wanted to see. Johnson understands the history and lore of the Star Wars universe, but it can be debated that he understands the "eye candy" that blockbuster movie goers want to see like JJ Abrams does.

Edited October 1, 2018 by awakeintheashes

[theCapraAegagrus]

20 minutes ago, awakeintheashes said:

Luke went into hiding because he realized, like others before him, that the Jedi didn't accomplish much in preventing the Sith and the Dark Side from advancing its agenda. In fact, it can be argued the Jedi made things worse.  Qui-Gon, Anakin, Ahsoka Tano and others struggled with this.

Luke didn't allow Kylo Ren and the First Order to bring the shadow of the Empire back to power. The politics of the New Republic Senate and its inability to govern did. 

The New Republic Senate had become divided into two parties: the Populists led by Leia Organa, who wanted to decentralize authority, and the Centrists, who wanted power to remain concentrated in a strong central government. Many of the Centrists were former Imperials who admired the old Empire for bringing order to the galaxy, and who feared that without strong central control the New Republic would become as weak and ineffectual as the Old Republic. Ultimately, many Centrist worlds seceded from the New Republic to reunite with the holdout Imperial remnants on the fringe of the galaxy, and formally combined into a new government called "the First Order". First Order conspirators publicly revealed that Leia was in fact the daughter of Darth Vader, severely harming her political standing among the remaining Populists.

The vast majority of the New Republic's worlds remained intact, but with the exodus of the Centrists its Senate became dominated by the remaining Populists, who favored decentralization and demilitarization, not confrontation. Even after these events, most in the remaining Senate were happy to see the Centrists go, feeling that the new First Order still controlled far too few sectors of the galaxy to ever pose a serious threat to galactic peace. In their view, it was easier to just let the Centrist worlds peacefully leave of their own volition and rejoin the Imperial worlds rather than fight a war to keep them by force.

Luke isn't to blame, and I don't blame him for originally rejecting the calls for help.

I don't think TLJ was a bad movie. I enjoyed it. But, I do believe it was a different movie than what some fans wanted to see. Johnson understands the history and lore of the Star Wars universe, but it can be debated that he understands the "eye candy" that blockbuster movie goers want to see like JJ Abrams does.

I think that The Last Jedi shows Rian Johnson understands close to nothing of Star Wars history and lore. You're the first person who I have seen claim otherwise. Again, I haven't read the first 80 pages of this thread, and never will. You're the first person I've ever interacted with whose said this. I completely disagree.

The fact that he kept discontinuity within the movie and expected the fans not to notice or care shows that he doesn't even have pride as a director. I abhor his existence and I blame him for everything that goes wrong in my life. I don't care if I overdraft my own bank account; It's Rian Johnson's fault.

[awakeintheashes]

[Buzzetta]

2 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

You're telling me that the guy WHO WENT AGAINST THE ODDS TO PROVE THAT THERE IS STILL GOOD IN DARTH FREAKING VADER WAS THAT TRAUMATIZED BY SEEING THE DARK SIDE IN HIS NEPHEW THAT NOT ONLY DID HE TRY TO MURDER HIM (ALLEGEDLY), BUT AFTERWARDS WENT INTO HIDING AND CRIED LIKE A LITTLE BABY FOR ALL THESE YEARS, JUST TO ALLOW KYLO REN AND THE FIRST ORDER TO BRING THE SHADOW OF AN EMPIRE BACK TO POWER!?

If you liked this movie, then we have nothing more to discuss because, by all means this was an awful film and the worst live-action adaptation of something that somehow received a "Star Wars" title. I guess when you see dog poop on your front lawn, you need more than a good look or sniff to understand that it's dog s^&*?

The only thing that The Last Jedi succeeded in doing is completely fracturing their fanbase and destroying the fandom for a lot of people that didn't deserve this. No one deserved this. There are not enough positives in that movie to make up for the Grade-A horse s^&* that you're forced to watch if you want to understand what happened between Episodes VII and outside-affiliatelinksnotallowed (roman numeral 9 is blocked?).

I don't know that it fractured the fan base. I believe in the money and I see that the money supports the idea that it is a minority opinion that is extremely vocal but a minority opinion at that. 

As far as Luke losing his faith?  He is a made up character.  It happens all the time.  Like I said, my friend served a religious order for well over ten years.  He went in right after high school and then he was (I am a little unfamiliar with the terminology) a "baby" Brother (as we called him.)  He had to go to college and religious school before they allowed him to take his vows.  He did so and then served for 10 years.  Then... as he says it, he lost his faith. He questioned his faith and left the order and will be getting married in a couple of weeks. 

People lose their faith in their belief system all the time.  At the end of the day, Luke did not have the support system about him as he was the only "jedi".  He eventually questioned everything and caved.  Last Jedi, at least to me was about the redemption of Luke and that everyone can redeem themselves.  Luke shows the viewer that no matter how hard you fall you can still get up.  There is HOPE... which has always been the theme of the Star Wars saga above anything else. 

Movies are funny things,  We all take things out of them that others may not or experience them.  I liked TLJ because it was a film and not a movie.  I very much enjoyed it for the reasons stated above.  At the end I turned to my friend  and said, "If they were to end the entire series right there it would be perfect."  He agreed.

@jsilverjanet Always asked me why I enjoyed TLJ... I never got around to answering it fully but this is a part of the reason why. 

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

7 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

I don't know that it fractured the fan base. I believe in the money and I see that the money supports the idea that it is a minority opinion that is extremely vocal but a minority opinion at that. 

As far as Luke losing his faith?  He is a made up character.  It happens all the time.  Like I said, my friend served a religious order for well over ten years.  He went in right after high school and then he was (I am a little unfamiliar with the terminology) a "baby" Brother (as we called him.)  He had to go to college and religious school before they allowed him to take his vows.  He did so and then served for 10 years.  Then... as he says it, he lost his faith. He questioned his faith and left the order and will be getting married in a couple of weeks. 

People lose their faith in their belief system all the time.  At the end of the day, Luke did not have the support system about him as he was the only "jedi".  He eventually questioned everything and caved.  Last Jedi, at least to me was about the redemption of Luke and that everyone can redeem themselves.  Luke shows the viewer that no matter how hard you fall you can still get up.  There is HOPE... which has always been the theme of the Star Wars saga above anything else. 

Movies are funny things,  We all take things out of them that others may not or experience them.  I liked TLJ because it was a film and not a movie.  I very much enjoyed it for the reasons stated above.  At the end I turned to my friend  and said, "If they were to end the entire series right there it would be perfect."  He agreed.

@jsilverjanet Always asked me why I enjoyed TLJ... I never got around to answering it fully but this is a part of the reason why. 

 

Unfortunately, too many people bought tickets before they knew it was a bad movie. You can't base opinions just on money-in for that 1 film. Solo took a huge hit in backlash of The Last Jedi's abysmal story and direction.

When Mark Hamill, you know, Luke Skywalker himself, doesn't empathize with his own character, we have a problem. The guy claimed he was "done" with Star Wars because of Rian Johnson's take on his character.

Outside of those points, I will not dignify the rest of your post with responses. When the director has to come out week after week explaining his movie and his choices in story then he filmed a steaming turd. We, as fan bases and audiences, don't need this many questions and this much speculation for a movie after seeing the movie.

At best, it's a 2.5/5, which is awful for a modern Star Wars flick. I'd rather watch Pod Racing and Jar Jar than The Last Jedi. So bad.

Edited October 1, 2018 by TwoPiece

[Buzzetta]

11 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

 

Outside of those points, I will not dignify the rest of your post with responses.

You will do well here.  Welcome to the boards. 

 

Anyway... @Chuck Gower, tag you are in.  Apparently I am not worthy of being responded to.  

[theCapraAegagrus]

5 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

You will do well here.  Welcome to the boards. 

 

Anyway... @Chuck Gower, tag you are in.  Apparently I am not worthy of being responded to.  

It's not that you don't deserve a response, but it's all speculation. You're speculating on a character who's actual motivations aren't apparent or implied in the media we were given. That's part of why I think TLJ is the worst movie I've ever spent money to see (that includes Suicide Squad). That's all. I won't battle opinion v opinion because it's pointless. You like the movie? Fine. I think it belongs on the bottom of the trash heap.

[bane]

As someone who doesn’t care about Star Wars I thought the movie was a turd 

[Comicopolis]

2 hours ago, bane said:

As someone who doesn’t care about Star Wars I thought the movie was a turd 

You love Star Wars.

You have Ewok pyjamas.

If you had children, the fictional characters of the Star Wars universe would be more important to you than your own kids.

[I like pie]

No one can deny it made good money. I simply think it would have made close to double if it was a better movie. Specifically, sticking to the spirit and core of the original trilogy.

People who enjoyed it will always say it made 1 billion. The other half will say it lost 1 billion.

To each their own.

[awakeintheashes]

10 hours ago, I like pie said:

No one can deny it made good money. I simply think it would have made close to double if it was a better movie. Specifically, sticking to the spirit and core of the original trilogy.

People who enjoyed it will always say it made 1 billion. The other half will say it lost 1 billion.

To each their own.

I agree with this. The unfortunate fact for fans of the OT, and only the OT, is that there is only so much Disney can squeeze out of it. The prequels, for the most part, were terrible and didn't expand our palate as SW fans. Sure, there were a few seeds of good ideas, but terrible terrible execution.

I always thought Solo was a poor choice for a stand alone movie. Sure, to fans of the OT, he's a fan favorite. But, he's just not that compelling of a character in relation to the larger Star Wars universe, which Disney is going to have expand moving forward. Honestly, Boba Fett has better backstory and played more of a role in some of the events leading to the rise of the Empire.

There is a lot of great material, compelling characters and inspiration that can be gleaned from the Clone Wars series. If Disney wanted to expand the SW universe in a meaningful way, while keeping loose threads connected to the Skywalker saga, this would be a good place to start. 

[ComicConnoisseur]

13 minutes ago, awakeintheashes said:

here is a lot of great material, compelling characters and inspiration that can be gleaned from the Clone Wars series. If Disney wanted to expand the SW universe in a meaningful way, while keeping loose threads connected to the Skywalker saga, this would be a good place to start. 

Agreed, especially if they would concentrate on him.

 

 

 

This way they can leave the classic Star Wars characters from the 1970s and 1980s at peace.

 

 

 

[Broke as a Joke]

I don't understand how people celebrate The Last Jedi because Rian Johnson did it his way and didn't follow the -script so to say, yet the rumors for Episode 9 have them bringing back all these familiar characters for the finale.  If they were so pleased with the way TLJ was received I would think they would continue forward with the new characters and not rely on the past.  Maybe they are taking to heart what the fans complained about.  

[theCapraAegagrus]

I think I've said it before, and I'll say it again, that I don't hate the movie for not doing enough fan service. I hate the movie for crapping on Star Wars. I know that the Skywalker saga can't go on successfully forever. I don't hate the movie for it not being what I hoped/imagined. I hate the movie for not doing anything. Instead of expanding new character's roles like Po and Fin, they introduce worthless pink hair lady to take charge and not tell anyone what the point is until it's too late. One poster said that the theme of Star Wars is "hope". Why would the acting General tell her crew that they're all going to die (flying until they run out of fuel)? I didn't need the movie to jerk-off Luke all film. Imagine a story of regret, training his nephew to harness the force, Snoke infiltrating their minds and the Knights of Ren destroying the hope of the Jedi. And then in the end, Luke faces Kylo physically to face his demons. His determination and strength with the force is so great that he can actually stop AT-AT blasters in an attempt to make up for his mistakes. He tells Po, Leia, etc that he's going to sacrifice his life to save theirs because he knows Ben's hatred for him outweighs his desire to destroy the rebellion. Instead of having a brain hemorrhage and turning into a cloud of farts on Ach-To. These are just thoughts I had after the movie. Ways it could have been infinitely better. Not expectations going in.

Imagine a movie that developed Rey instead of turning her into Mary Sue.* My 10-year old cousin's imagination outweighs the creativity of the entire movie. That's pathetic for a modern film, and again, a Star Wars movie.

*Another in a long line of reasons how Johnson knows nothing of Star Wars history and lore. How the hell are we to accept that Rey is as powerful with The Force as she is, without strong heritage or in-depth training..? Even Darth f^&*ing Vader needed extensive training despite his innate strength of The Force. Rian Johnson is dumber than a rock.

Edited October 2, 2018 by TwoPiece

[bane]

The film definitely had its fair share of stupidity.

And Johnson wrote the story so the blame lays at his door.

Edited October 2, 2018 by bane

[Comicopolis]

You're all just Russian bots!