why is this book considered Restored?

[atomised]

The threads here on restoration inspired me post. Have to admit, I was disappointed to see this book come back to me as a purple label restored book noting "restoration includes: small amount of glue on cover" Slight C-1.

 

The grader notes were "Glue/adhesive (Non-archival material small amount) Spine C-1"

 

For one, the label note is a bit of a misnomer, it says "restoration includes" but there is no additional restoration on the book. If I was to buy this book, I might take those label notes to indicate there is other restoration on the book, and it also includes some glue on the cover. Well, no actually - the only "restoration" is the glue.

 

Also, it's C-1 indicating "poor". So at some point in time, some amateur or hobbyist or goblin or whatever took some small amount of consumer glue and put it on the book. I guess I'm wondering why the net of all this is this is now a "restored" book. Was this really an effort to restore the book or just some goofball putting a bit of glue on it.

 

I'm not sure in the fine art world, this would constitute a restored fine painting. i.e someone in the 16th century put a bit of glue on a Caravaggio so now Sotheby's is going to sell that work as a "restored" work. Of course, only kidding but you get my point

 

Would love to hear your thoughts if you would consider this a restored book, I'm pretty new to posting here.

 

 

[woowoo]

I have seen books graded blue unrestored with a note of small amount of glue on cover. Dont know why a small amount of glue on cover woulds be diff than the glue thats on tape.?

[Tri-Color Brian]

I don't think the glue should make it restored...this grading is getting out of control...

[Doohickamabob]

For one, the label note is a bit of a misnomer, it says "restoration includes" but there is no additional restoration on the book. If I was to buy this book, I might take those label notes to indicate there is other restoration on the book, and it also includes some glue on the cover. Well, no actually - the only "restoration" is the glue.

Anyone who regularly browses eBay or other auction listings, or who collects a lot of graded comics, knows that "Restoration includes" is CGC's generic lead-in to whatever restoration it is going to list. Think about the wording: Is there really a singular version of "restoration includes" that wouldn't be awkward? You can't write "Restoration include" without it being laughable. CGC needs to keep things short for space purposes, but I suppose they could change it out for "Restoration consists of," if enough people complained about "Restoration includes" -- which is highly unlikely. Also, even a book that has several types of restoration still gets the word "includes," which implies additional restoration, according to your reading. So it's only a misnomer for your book if it's a misnomer for every book, right?

 

Also, it's C-1 indicating "poor". So at some point in time, some amateur or hobbyist or goblin or whatever took some small amount of consumer glue and put it on the book. I guess I'm wondering why the net of all this is this is now a "restored" book. Was this really an effort to restore the book or just some goofball putting a bit of glue on it.

The intention of the person who added the glue is not for CGC to determine. However, the fact that the glue is on the spine makes it highly likely that somebody was trying to fix or reinforce something with the glue. And a potential buyer certainly would want to know that the comic has had something added to it to alter its condition, which is what grading is supposed to report. Your implication here seems to be that if the restoration is poor, there's a chance that it's not restoration but some sort of accident, and therefore it should not be reported as restoration. Obviously that's not a very compelling argument.

 

I'm not sure in the fine art world, this would constitute a restored fine painting. i.e someone in the 16th century put a bit of glue on a Caravaggio so now Sotheby's is going to sell that work as a "restored" work. Of course, only kidding but you get my point

Sotheby's would probably let potential bidders know if the painting had some sort of irreversible alteration or damage, or at least that information would be preferably available and not hidden. If a famous painting did have restoration work done, anybody who spent a substantial amount of money on the painting would have the right to know about it. Whether they cared or not is another matter, but they should know this upfront. Even though this is somewhat of an apples-and-oranges comparison, the same principle of transparency can be applied.

 

Would love to hear your thoughts if you would consider this a restored book, I'm pretty new to posting here.

If you want to know a detailed analysis of what people think about the glue on the book, you might consider posting close-ups that show all of the places where glue was applied to the spine. Is it just one drop, or done at several places on the spine? From the photo you provided, it looks like glue was applied at several locations. I can't tell if that's the actual glue though. It looks white -- is that the glue? Is it a water-based glue like Elmer's, or some sort of paste, or what?

[Doohickamabob]

I have seen books graded blue unrestored with a note of small amount of glue on cover. Dont know why a small amount of glue on cover woulds be diff than the glue thats on tape.?

It's not clear to me why CGC doesn't consider tape to be restoration. One thing you can say for sure about tape, though, is that when it's applied to the outside of the comic, the person applying the tape is probably not trying to hide anything about the true condition of the comic. Archival tape strips applied on the inside spine areas of the comic is another matter. But scotch-type tape on the outside looks more like something an original-owner kid would do in the course of enjoying his comics, rather than something a dealer might do to pull the wool over the eyes of an unsuspecting buyer. Since one of the main reasons for CGC to exist is to detect restoration that a novice might not be able to find, and ensure a fair market price based on actual condition etc., there is not as much demand for CGC to define tape as restoration rather than simply factor it in to the regular grade (and downgrade accordingly).

 

[woowoo]

I have seen books graded blue unrestored with a note of small amount of glue on cover. Dont know why a small amount of glue on cover woulds be diff than the glue thats on tape.?

It's not clear to me why CGC doesn't consider tape to be restoration. One thing you can say for sure about tape, though, is that when it's applied to the outside of the comic, the person applying the tape is probably not trying to hide anything about the true condition of the comic. Archival tape strips applied on the inside spine areas of the comic is another matter. But scotch-type tape on the outside looks more like something an original-owner kid would do in the course of enjoying his comics, rather than something a dealer might do to pull the wool over the eyes of an unsuspecting buyer. Since one of the main reasons for CGC to exist is to detect restoration that a novice might not be able to find, and ensure a fair market price based on actual condition etc., there is not as much demand for CGC to define tape as restoration rather than simply factor it in to the regular grade (and downgrade accordingly).

 

Idont think a drop of glue if so is hiding anything. I have a copy of Action 16 unrestored but someone put glue on a 6 inch rip on the centerfold so i would think thats would fall under restored more than small glue?

[Doohickamabob]

I have seen books graded blue unrestored with a note of small amount of glue on cover. Dont know why a small amount of glue on cover woulds be diff than the glue thats on tape.?

It's not clear to me why CGC doesn't consider tape to be restoration. One thing you can say for sure about tape, though, is that when it's applied to the outside of the comic, the person applying the tape is probably not trying to hide anything about the true condition of the comic. Archival tape strips applied on the inside spine areas of the comic is another matter. But scotch-type tape on the outside looks more like something an original-owner kid would do in the course of enjoying his comics, rather than something a dealer might do to pull the wool over the eyes of an unsuspecting buyer. Since one of the main reasons for CGC to exist is to detect restoration that a novice might not be able to find, and ensure a fair market price based on actual condition etc., there is not as much demand for CGC to define tape as restoration rather than simply factor it in to the regular grade (and downgrade accordingly).

 

Idont think a drop of glue if so is hideing anything. I have a copy of Action 16 unrestored but someone put glue on a 6 inch rip on the centerfold so i would think thats would fall under restored more than small glue?

For most types of glue, a drop of glue is much harder to see than a piece of tape.

 

I can't speak for CGC's consistency in how they grade some books with glue versus other books with glue. I have noticed that they've tightened up their grading standards in the past year-and-a-half since their competition got more fierce (at least, that's my interpretation and based on my limited experience with them).

 

Part of their grading process is to look at the comic under a black light, which reveals glue and color touch much more readily than regular lighting. It's possible that they use the black light more on the cover areas of the books and much less so while paging through the interior. Theoretically speaking, this could account for them failing to notice the glue on the inner pages.

 

[gino2paulus2]

On a completely separate note that is a SWEET BOOK!!!

 

You could always ask Matt to see if the glue could be removed to get it back to its original state

[lhcomics]

If you remove the purpose that the glue was applied to correct you will remove the purple label.

 

Have the tear seal or whatever the glue is correcting undone. You will now get a blue with note of "glue on cover" or wherever the glue is and probably get close to the same grade.

 

Removing the glue by scraping it off will result in paper loss and probably get lower grade.

 

Removing the glue by chemical process will put you back in purple holder.

 

This is how I understand it.

[atomised]

If you remove the purpose that the glue was applied to correct you will remove the purple label.

 

Have the tear seal or whatever the glue is correcting undone. You will now get a blue with note of "glue on cover" or wherever the glue is and probably get close to the same grade.

 

Removing the glue by scraping it off will result in paper loss and probably get lower grade.

 

Removing the glue by chemical process will put you back in purple holder.

 

This is how I understand it.

 

Thanks for the handy advice, I posted to learn more and this thread has been helpful from the other contributors as well.

 

Best

 

Peter

[*matterus023*]

I feel that whether a drop of glue should be classed as resto or not I would at least want it on the label.

 

Personally I feel that a drop of glue should be a blue label with the mention of it. Using a purple label for it reduces its value unnecessarily

 

But it is a tough one as then I could argue one dot of colour touch should be a blue label with it mentioned. But if someone has done it for a bump in grade then they should be penalised but that in turn penalises if you like the comic itself as harder to sell for fmv.

 

Definitley a paradox somewhere in there

[Sqeggs]

If you remove the purpose that the glue was applied to correct you will remove the purple label.

 

Have the tear seal or whatever the glue is correcting undone. You will now get a blue with note of "glue on cover" or wherever the glue is and probably get close to the same grade.

 

Removing the glue by scraping it off will result in paper loss and probably get lower grade.

 

Removing the glue by chemical process will put you back in purple holder.

 

This is how I understand it.

 

Thanks for the handy advice, I posted to learn more and this thread has been helpful from the other contributors as well.

 

Best

 

Peter

 

I'm with you on the "Restoration includes" language. A plain reading of that language would be that there is additional restoration not in the list on the label, when, so far as I know, the label note is typically (always?) exhaustive. That is, there isn't any restoration to the book that hasn't been noted on the label.

 

I don't know why they began with this language, rather than the simpler "Restoration:" unless they were attempting to cover themselves in case the book had restoration that they had missed during the grading process.

[fifties]

 

I don't know why they began with this language, rather than the simpler "Restoration:" unless they were attempting to cover themselves in case the book had restoration that they had missed during the grading process.

That doesn't say much then for their own confidence in their abilities...

[Bomber-Bob]

 

Personally I feel that a drop of glue should be a blue label with the mention of it. Using a purple label for it reduces its value unnecessarily

 

 

The resto is assigned because of what the drop of glue is doing. It's just not a random drop of glue but probably used to seal a spine split, attach a detached staple, tear seal, etc. CGC looks at intent. Neither a random drop of glue or an ink 'dot' will be given resto unless the intent is to 'hide' something. I think CGC has it right.

[*matterus023*]

 

Personally I feel that a drop of glue should be a blue label with the mention of it. Using a purple label for it reduces its value unnecessarily

 

 

The resto is assigned because of what the drop of glue is doing. It's just not a random drop of glue but probably used to seal a spine split, attach a detached staple, tear seal, etc. CGC looks at intent. Neither a random drop of glue or an ink 'dot' will be given resto unless the intent is to 'hide' something. I think CGC has it right.

 

That is why I went on to say...

 

But it is a tough one as then I could argue one dot of colour touch should be a blue label with it mentioned. But if someone has done it for a bump in grade then they should be penalised but that in turn penalises if you like the comic itself as harder to sell for fmv.

 

I am sure CGC do look at intent but in reality there is no way of knowing the degree of intent. This is and always will be impossible

 

Plus does that mean from what you are saying that some comics with colour touch on them won't get a purple label? If that is the case then this thread has its answer I feel. It is down to cgc to evaluate intent

[PovertyRow]

For one, the label note is a bit of a misnomer, it says "restoration includes" but there is no additional restoration on the book. If I was to buy this book, I might take those label notes to indicate there is other restoration on the book, and it also includes some glue on the cover. Well, no actually - the only "restoration" is the glue.

 

Back in 2002 I asked this exact question in the ASK CGC thread. They answered it too.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=25&Number=12240&Searchpage=1&Main=674&Words=+PovertyRow&topic=0&Search=true#Post12240

 

 

 

[*matterus023*]

For one, the label note is a bit of a misnomer, it says "restoration includes" but there is no additional restoration on the book. If I was to buy this book, I might take those label notes to indicate there is other restoration on the book, and it also includes some glue on the cover. Well, no actually - the only "restoration" is the glue.

 

Back in 2002 I asked this exact question in the ASK CGC thread. They answered it too.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=25&Number=12240&Searchpage=1&Main=674&Words=+PovertyRow&topic=0&Search=true#Post12240

 

 

 

I think atomised meant that when the label has only say one thing, like glue or colour touch then no need for restoration includes. Not if there is too much to mention. Could be wrong but that is how I took it

[atomised]

For one, the label note is a bit of a misnomer, it says "restoration includes" but there is no additional restoration on the book. If I was to buy this book, I might take those label notes to indicate there is other restoration on the book, and it also includes some glue on the cover. Well, no actually - the only "restoration" is the glue.

 

Back in 2002 I asked this exact question in the ASK CGC thread. They answered it too.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=25&Number=12240&Searchpage=1&Main=674&Words=+PovertyRow&topic=0&Search=true#Post12240

 

 

 

I think atomised meant that when the label has only say one thing, like glue or colour touch then no need for restoration includes. Not if there is too much to mention. Could be wrong but that is how I took it

Yes, that's pretty much it. I totally understand that information should be disclosed but I was trying to understand why the book is restored under these slight amateur adjustments. Then again, I'm informed by watching a lot of Barrett-Jackson and Mecum so I have a slightly different view of what restored is. I'm trying to get how this works here, which seems like minor fixing-up, professional or amateur, is "restored". Restored to a bad state as in the case with this book, but still restored.

[VintageComics]

I have seen books graded blue unrestored with a note of small amount of glue on cover. Dont know why a small amount of glue on cover woulds be diff than the glue thats on tape.?

 

It all depends on how much glue is present and whether or not it improves the grade.

 

If it improves the grade, it's labeled as restoration. If it doesn't improve the grade, it isn't.

 

That's the rule for GA books as I understand. It doesn't apply to any other eras.

[Bomber-Bob]

 

It all depends on how much glue is present and whether or not it improves the grade.

 

If it improves the grade, it's labeled as restoration. If it doesn't improve the grade, it isn't.

 

That's the rule for GA books as I understand. It doesn't apply to any other eras.

 

I'm having a difficult time believing this is a true statement. This would mean a mid grade book can have work done to it and be a blue label if another flaw holds the grade down. I still think it is the intent/function of the glue, not a matter of the grade.