Question for Heritage and comiclink reps wrt Burkey admission 2 2

[Bird]

 

Graham, is that you?

[vodou]

Cross-posting this from the WEIRD HA RESULTS thread.

Just so we stay on point:

 

1. What specific pieces were shilled (whether buck passed successfully or not)? Let's see the items, bids, bidders, and results -in full.

2. Who are Mike's 'friends' that do the shilling?

3. What exactly was/is the quid pro quo given in return? More shilling by Mike for their goods? Other incentives?

[Peter G]

Cross-posting this from the WEIRD HA RESULTS thread.

Just so we stay on point:

 

1. What specific pieces were shilled (whether buck passed successfully or not)? Let's see the items, bids, bidders, and results -in full.

2. Who are Mike's 'friends' that do the shilling?

3. What exactly was/is the quid pro quo given in return? More shilling by Mike for their goods? Other incentives?

 

We should just ask "Transparent Mike"

[BCarter27]

Cross-posting this from the WEIRD HA RESULTS thread.

Just so we stay on point:

 

1. What specific pieces were shilled (whether buck passed successfully or not)? Let's see the items, bids, bidders, and results -in full.

2. Who are Mike's 'friends' that do the shilling?

3. What exactly was/is the quid pro quo given in return? More shilling by Mike for their goods? Other incentives?

 

I don't think there is any way to determine which pieces were shilled outside of the shillers stepping forward.

 

So I want to see a list released from each auction house of ALL the pages consigned by this seller.

[vodou]

Cross-posting this from the WEIRD HA RESULTS thread.

Just so we stay on point:

 

1. What specific pieces were shilled (whether buck passed successfully or not)? Let's see the items, bids, bidders, and results -in full.

2. Who are Mike's 'friends' that do the shilling?

3. What exactly was/is the quid pro quo given in return? More shilling by Mike for their goods? Other incentives?

 

I don't think there is any way to determine which pieces were shilled outside of the shillers stepping forward.

 

So I want to see a list released from each auction house of ALL the pages consigned by this seller.

This is a want list for authorities to legally compel if/when a plea deal is presented to Mike

[tth2]

B. I wanted to remind him which Asian collector I am (and glad I did, because he had me confused with someone who had stiffed him ).

 

If I had a dollar for every time someone mistook me for you and called me "Felix"...I'd have enough to buy an Extra Value Meal at Mickey D's. :doh:

You should know by know that all Asians are alike!

Edited January 23, 2016 by tth2

[tth2]

B. I wanted to remind him which Asian collector I am (and glad I did, because he had me confused with someone who had stiffed him ).

 

If I had a dollar for every time someone mistook me for you and called me "Felix"...I'd have enough to buy an Extra Value Meal at Mickey D's. :doh:

Assuming you mean 'in person', I think it's pretty cool you guys don't get upset re: the whole "they all look the same" rap. It's all the rage these days to get offended (and yell racist at the top of your lungs) at the drop of a hat, but sometimes people are dorks or weren't really paying attention and it's simple confusion. Anyway, I bet all whites (you don't know well) look about the same to non-whites...pretty sure I've seen some brilliant stand-up on that very theme...cannot remember who though...

 

When I was in college, I had an older roommate who gave me an ID to use that had been passed down to him from someone else. When I had no more use for it, I gave it to a younger roommate.

 

The original owner was Korean, 5'11", 140 lbs.

 

The next guy was Japanese, 5'7", 130 lbs.

 

I'm Chinese and was 6'0", 170 lbs.

 

Guy after me was Vietnamese, 5'9", 150 lbs.

 

It worked for all of us.

 

(It finally got taken away from the Vietnamese guy because he had forgotten to memorize the birthday on the ID and when he got asked by a bouncer what it was, instead of answering, he said "it's right here" and pointed to it on the card.)

It`s always the Vietnamese guy who ruins it for the rest of us.

[Doc Joe]

Warning. The above post had absolutely nothing to do with anything.

 

Age shilling

[otherworldsj33]

Guys, he is telling you straight up what he is doing. It is not illegal. So he wants to ask a friend to bid on, and if he wins, pay for, a piece so he could possibly trade for or buy back. Remember, he is also paying the 19.5% commission fee.

Or you can say, in a round about way, it can be like putting a reserve on a piece.

No one is forcing another bidder to bid on the piece.

Is it much different then a free agent using the NY Yankees as a pawn or a tool in driving the price up for his services? Then it is considered smart business, right?

Or how about Halperin bidding on, or asking someone to, bid on a piece he wants? Is it much different?

Can it possibly be considered a bit of a grey area? Yeah, I can see that, to an extent.

I personally would not make that a business practice. I would rather just do a reserve.

But if occasionally I regretted putting the piece in auction, and it was already underway, I would do that. Or if I had a piece in auction that I thought just wasn't getting the respect, I might do that. Just not as a matter of routine business.

But to say, or imply, that what Mike is doing is a non debatable, unscrupulous thing to do, I think is unfair, and even possibly hypocritical for some here.

I love to hear M.Stock's point of view on this...

 

 

[Peter G]

Guys, he is telling you straight up what he is doing. It is not illegal. So he wants to ask a friend to bid on, and if he wins, pay for, a piece so he could possibly trade for or buy back. Remember, he is also paying the 19.5% commission fee.

Or you can say, in a round about way, it can be like putting a reserve on a piece.

No one is forcing another bidder to bid on the piece.

Is it much different then a free agent using the NY Yankees as a pawn or a tool in driving the price up for his services? Then it is considered smart business, right?

Or how about Halperin bidding on, or asking someone to, bid on a piece he wants? Is it much different?

Can it possibly be considered a bit of a grey area? Yeah, I can see that, to an extent.

I personally would not make that a business practice. I would rather just do a reserve.

But if occasionally I regretted putting the piece in auction, and it was already underway, I would do that. Or if I had a piece in auction that I thought just wasn't getting the respect, I might do that. Just not as a matter of routine business.

But to say, or imply, that what Mike is doing is a non debatable, unscrupulous thing to do, I think is unfair, and even possibly hypocritical for some here.

I love to hear M.Stock's point of view on this...

 

 

If this behavior is on the up and up then why did he only admit it reluctantly after being caught ?

[Meeley Man]

Guys, he is telling you straight up what he is doing. It is not illegal. So he wants to ask a friend to bid on, and if he wins, pay for, a piece so he could possibly trade for or buy back. Remember, he is also paying the 19.5% commission fee.

Or you can say, in a round about way, it can be like putting a reserve on a piece.

 

Then why not just put the reserve on it to begin with, instead of playing some hinkey games, that border on unethical? Doesn't make sense to risk your reputation that way, when you know the proper way to do things, does it?

 

Can it possibly be considered a bit of a grey area? Yeah, I can see that, to an extent.

I personally would not make that a business practice. I would rather just do a reserve.

 

Again, just making the reasons for doing as he has to make even less sense than they already do. Much greater risks, for little to no rewards if found out. And all when you have a legitimate option open to you.

 

But if occasionally I regretted putting the piece in auction, and it was already underway, I would do that. Or if I had a piece in auction that I thought just wasn't getting the respect, I might do that. Just not as a matter of routine business.

 

Then I'd consider you someone I'd be wary of doing business with, especially at auction. And if you are concerned about "not getting enough respect" at auction for a piece, then solution is very simple: Don't put it up to auction. But if you want to risk your reputation, to get around the dictates of the market, then when those things are exposed, it's on you. Not the people who've exposed you.

 

But to say, or imply, that what Mike is doing is a non debatable, unscrupulous thing to do, I think is unfair, and even possibly hypocritical for some here.

 

It is non-debatable. The rules of auction are pretty clear. He had the option for a reserve. He had the option not to send something to auction, if he feared it not getting "enough respect." He chose another route. One that has now sullied his rep. That was the risk he decided to take, no one forced him to do so.

[alxjhnsn]

Guys, he is telling you straight up what he is doing. It is not illegal. So he wants to ask a friend to bid on, and if he wins, pay for, a piece so he could possibly trade for or buy back.

 

That may not be correct. In Texas, where HA is based, shill bidding is illegal unless the auctioneer specifically states that it is. So far as I can tell, HA does not allow shill bidding.

 

Therefore, I conclude that it may well be illegal. Moreover, it could amount to a large amount of money to a large number of bidders.

 

This is my opinion only; I'm not a lawyer.

[Doc Joe]

I feel like the behavior both is and is not shilling

 

Essentially he is saying I think this piece is worth at least 15k

So my friend Joe, bid on it up to 15k

If we win it for less fine, but if it hits 15k then stop

 

That's where I have a problem.

 

If I want this piece and without the shill I would be the highest bidder and win it at say 8k even if I was prepared to go to16.

 

With the shill I am now being pushed up to the 15k when I could have got it for less cause no one other than me and the owner wanted it that high.

 

Even if it's below what he thinks it's worth, that's the market and someone should be able to get it for the fair current price on that day. That is not happening. This is wrong.

[Mmehdy]

In light of recent events where Burkey has admitted to shilling many consignments through one or more third parties, do your organizations plan on accepting future consignments from Mike? Do your organizations plan on allowing him to bid in your auctions?

 

 

It is a shame, that auctions cannot be true "no reserve"...to me it seems like he is trying to PRETEND...or FOOL the buyer into thinking its no reserve so that it might be sold to CREATE greater buyer interest. ..I admire him for admitting it...I disagree that a FAIR auction should put up with it...

 

Just put a reserve on it....

Edited January 24, 2016 by Mmehdy

[roboticplanet]

Even if Mike is, as he claims, only having bids placed to win his own consignments, it's still shill bidding, and was demonstrably shown by the federal government to be a crime.

 

I'm still relatively new to comic art collecting, and haven't won much from non-eBay auction sites, but reading HA's Terms and Conditions there's a surprising lack of language condemning shill bidding. eBay is usually the first place you think of for online shill bidding but even they have clear rules against and will ban users when caught. In light of this shilling fiasco I'd definitely like to hear HA reiterate it's not allowed and they'll be actively preventing it.

[Mmehdy]

Even if Mike is, as he claims, only having bids placed to win his own consignments, it's still shill bidding, and was demonstrably shown by the federal government to be a crime.

 

I'm still relatively new to comic art collecting, and haven't won much from non-eBay auction sites, but reading HA's Terms and Conditions there's a surprising lack of language condemning shill bidding. eBay is usually the first place you think of for online shill bidding but even they have clear rules against and will ban users when caught. In light of this shilling fiasco I'd definitely like to hear HA reiterate it's not allowed and they'll be actively preventing it.

 

He wants the best of everything...no reserve...but a secret reserve with his friends...great.....PLAY BY THE RULES OF A FAIR AUCTION or set a reserve.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Mmehdy

[otherworldsj33]

Guys, he is telling you straight up what he is doing. It is not illegal. So he wants to ask a friend to bid on, and if he wins, pay for, a piece so he could possibly trade for or buy back. Remember, he is also paying the 19.5% commission fee.

Or you can say, in a round about way, it can be like putting a reserve on a piece.

No one is forcing another bidder to bid on the piece.

Is it much different then a free agent using the NY Yankees as a pawn or a tool in driving the price up for his services? Then it is considered smart business, right?

Or how about Halperin bidding on, or asking someone to, bid on a piece he wants? Is it much different?

Can it possibly be considered a bit of a grey area? Yeah, I can see that, to an extent.

I personally would not make that a business practice. I would rather just do a reserve.

But if occasionally I regretted putting the piece in auction, and it was already underway, I would do that. Or if I had a piece in auction that I thought just wasn't getting the respect, I might do that. Just not as a matter of routine business.

But to say, or imply, that what Mike is doing is a non debatable, unscrupulous thing to do, I think is unfair, and even possibly hypocritical for some here.

I love to hear M.Stock's point of view on this...

 

 

If this behavior is on the up and up then why did he only admit it reluctantly after being caught ?

 

"Caught"? Or discovered?

[otherworldsj33]

Originally Posted By: otherwroldsj33

But if occasionally I regretted putting the piece in auction, and it was already underway, I would do that. Or if I had a piece in auction that I thought just wasn't getting the respect, I might do that. Just not as a matter of routine business.

 

 

Reply Posted by Meeley Man

"Then I'd consider you someone I'd be wary of doing business with, especially at auction. And if you are concerned about "not getting enough respect" at auction for a piece, then solution is very simple: Don't put it up to auction. But if you want to risk your reputation, to get around the dictates of the market, then when those things are exposed, it's on you. Not the people who've exposed you."

 

My reply.

What can I say, beyond I specifically said I would not do it as a matter of routine business.

I don't think it would hurt my reputation at all with most people.

I actually would not care if anyone "exposed" me, and in fact, I would probably, on a more important piece, (not a $300 piece) reveal it anyway.

With due respect, at this point in my life, I have learned there are always going to be people who are not happy with everything I do, all the time. It doesn't even matter much anymore to me with most people think, knowing the hypocritical and depraved nature of most people. As long as my conscience is clear, and I am not a humanist, or one who believes in moral relativism, by the way, I am not really looking to take polls to justify my actions.

 

[AnWARtheart-migration]

Originally Posted By: otherwroldsj33

But if occasionally I regretted putting the piece in auction, and it was already underway, I would do that. Or if I had a piece in auction that I thought just wasn't getting the respect, I might do that. Just not as a matter of routine business.

 

 

Posted by

"Then I'd consider you someone I'd be wary of doing business with, especially at auction. And if you are concerned about "not getting enough respect" at auction for a piece, then solution is very simple: Don't put it up to auction. But if you want to risk your reputation, to get around the dictates of the market, then when those things are exposed, it's on you. Not the people who've exposed you."

 

My reply.

What can I say, beyond I specifically said I would not do it as a matter of routine business.

I don't think it would hurt my reputation at all with most people.

I actually would not care if anyone "exposed" me, and in fact, I would probably, on a more important piece, (not a $300 piece) reveal it anyway.

With due respect, at this point in my life, I have learned there are always going to be people who are not happy with everything I do, all the time. It doesn't even matter much anymore to me with most people think, knowing the hypocritical and depraved nature of most people. As long as my conscience is clear, and I am not a humanist, or one who believes in moral relativism, by the way, I am not really looking to take polls to justify my actions.

 

So you will subvert auction rules for $$$? Got it! Aren't you the honest cop guy? Sad.

[Meeley Man]

But if occasionally I regretted putting the piece in auction, and it was already underway, I would do that. Or if I had a piece in auction that I thought just wasn't getting the respect, I might do that. Just not as a matter of routine business.

 

 

Then I'd consider you someone I'd be wary of doing business with, especially at auction. And if you are concerned about "not getting enough respect" at auction for a piece, then solution is very simple: Don't put it up to auction. But if you want to risk your reputation, to get around the dictates of the market, then when those things are exposed, it's on you. Not the people who've exposed you.

 

My reply.

What can I say, beyond I specifically said I would not do it as a matter of routine business.

 

That you would do it when you felt it benefited you, or to get around rules you didn't like, or because you misjudged the worth the market has on something you have, paints you as someone not to be trusted. What more can I say, beyond that if you are ethical person, you don't do these kinds of things EVER! Not just when it is convenient to not do them, or not merely as a "matter of routine business." You don't do them. EVER! Otherwise, you are not an ethical person.

 

I don't think it would hurt my reputation at all with most people.

 

I'd think the reaction to Mike having done so should show you otherwise.

 

 

I actually would not care if anyone "exposed" me, and in fact, I would probably, on a more important piece, (not a $300 piece) reveal it anyway.

 

You know who does unethical things and don't care if they are caught? Criminals. Is that what you are? You are certainly sounding like one. Your justifications to yourself, to believe you are an ethical person, even if you do this, means nothing to anyone else. This hobby/business is built largely on TRUST. And if one is not able to be trusted, then they should not be in this business. It's that simple.

 

 

With due respect, at this point in my life, I have learned there are always going to be people who are not happy with everything I do, all the time. It doesn't even matter much anymore to me with most people think, knowing the hypocritical and depraved nature of most people. As long as my conscience is clear, and I am not a humanist, or one who believes in moral relativism, by the way, I am not really looking to take polls to justify my actions.

 

No, you merely think you are above certain rules in certain situations, like Mike does. Never mind if breaking those rules is unethical. You don't believe in ethics, save the ones you want to live by. As I said, all your posts say you are someone to be wary of doing business with. You are not to be trusted. You think you are above the rules when it suits or benefits you. That is all you've said here, no matter what justifications you give yourself for doing it.