Question for Heritage and comiclink reps wrt Burkey admission 2 2

[ShallowDan]

Yep, there's simply no way to eliminate shill bidding.  You can try to discourage and minimize it, but folks will always find workarounds.

Years ago on an ebay auction (non-art), I had a similar situation to grapeape, where someone had pecked away until they topped my bid, then at the end of the auction I was quickly offered a second chance to buy the item after being told the high-bidder had flaked out on the purchase.  Looking at the bid history, there was a big gap between the final bid, and the price I would have won it at in the absence of shenanigans (that's to say the third highest bidder was significantly below the final price), so I responded that I'd be happy to bid again if the item was relisted, but wasn't interested in the second chance offer.  The seller pushed against this, with a now-or-never type response, but eventually relisted the item a week or so later.  I had a buddy bid on my behalf the second go-around (I was paranoid that the seller might try to screw me out of some sense of general principle), but this time I went with the sniping route on the bid and ended up getting it at a much lower price.

I've used sniping on ebay ever since for most big buys.  Obviously it won't keep you safe from all shill bid situations, but does help with some.

[grapeape]

ShallowFan handled his business. He adapted and overcame. No need to be a victim. You outsmarted the shill and employed excellent strategy to ultimately win the page.

In my situation the very same behavior. The seller was very aggressive “DO YOU WANT IT OR NOT?” 
It was obvious they had worked together. Winners don’t change their minds 5 minutes after winning and get out of paying.

[Noob19]

6 hours ago, ShallowDan said:

Years ago on an ebay auction (non-art), I had a similar situation to grapeape, where someone had pecked away until they topped my bid, then at the end of the auction I was quickly offered a second chance to buy the item after being told the high-bidder had flaked out on the purchase.  Looking at the bid history, there was a big gap between the final bid, and the price I would have won it at in the absence of shenanigans (that's to say the third highest bidder was significantly below the final price), so I responded that I'd be happy to bid again if the item was relisted, but wasn't interested in the second chance offer.  The seller pushed against this, with a now-or-never type response, but eventually relisted the item a week or so later. 

This exact thing happened to me on a page listed on eBay. It was so obvious and soured me to the page and seller I choose not to bid when it was relisted. I guess it wasn't something I really wanted but also there just seems to be so much art out there.

[vodou]

@ShallowDan @grapeape

Your stories have happened to me many times in the 22 1/2 years I've been a very active buyer on eBay. Many = at least 20 times a year.

However, I've noticed the frequency has dropped a lot since The Market (not just comics but many other 'collectible' categories) moved away from auctions to BIN/BO listings.

Which makes sense...the seller gets their price with BIN/BO or 'no deal'

[Bronty]

That’s a good point 

[delekkerste]

13 hours ago, grapeape said:

I bid on a page many years ago. I watched incredulously as a 0-1 feedback bidder “found” my high bid by chipping away $25 at a time. I lost the page by ten dollars to this “bidder.” Five minutes later the seller contacts me saying, “uh the winner backed out so the page is available to you.” My first taste of being shilled. I reported it and nothing was done. The seller obviously had a partner “find” my bid but oops he played too much and wound up “buying” the page. The bizarre bidding patterns and future collusion enforced my righteous contempt for the shenanigans.

I was bidding on a $200-odd dollar sports card item on eBay a week or two ago.  I get outbid with a few minutes remaining in the auction.  No big deal; I'm happy to let it go above my max bid (I usually snipe, but, I think the bidding on this item was already close to my max bid, so, I had already put it in the system).

With literally seconds remaining in the auction, the high bidder cancels his bid and I end up winning the lot.  I click on his bidding profile and find that the guy has 214 bid retractions in the past 30 days and 1,654 in the past six months!!!  How does a scumbag like this, who clearly bids to uncover others' high bids and then backs out if he decides he doesn't like the price, not get banned from eBay after a couple/few bid retractions?!!  1,654 in just the past 6 months (who knows how many before then), and eBay just turns a blind eye?!!  Disgusting.  

I was so aggrieved that I had a long IM chat with eBay Customer Service who promised to do something about this.  But, who knows if they did or not.  I just clicked on his anonymized profile and it shows that he's up to 1688 bid retractions over the past 6 months.  So, I guess eBay isn't doing anything about it.  

[Bronty]

brutal

[aokartman]

2 hours ago, Bronty said:

brutal

It stinks when it happens to you at first, and hopefully it isn't a high ticket item.  

Then adjust your bidding reality to the conditions at hand.  David

 

[stinkininkin]

4 hours ago, delekkerste said:

I was bidding on a $200-odd dollar sports card item on eBay a week or two ago.  I get outbid with a few minutes remaining in the auction.  No big deal; I'm happy to let it go above my max bid (I usually snipe, but, I think the bidding on this item was already close to my max bid, so, I had already put it in the system).

With literally seconds remaining in the auction, the high bidder cancels his bid and I end up winning the lot.  I click on his bidding profile and find that the guy has 214 bid retractions in the past 30 days and 1,654 in the past six months!!!  How does a scumbag like this, who clearly bids to uncover others' high bids and then backs out if he decides he doesn't like the price, not get banned from eBay after a couple/few bid retractions?!!  1,654 in just the past 6 months (who knows how many before then), and eBay just turns a blind eye?!!  Disgusting.  

I was so aggrieved that I had a long IM chat with eBay Customer Service who promised to do something about this.  But, who knows if they did or not.  I just clicked on his anonymized profile and it shows that he's up to 1688 bid retractions over the past 6 months.  So, I guess eBay isn't doing anything about it.  

What garbage. Someone always finds a way to game the system. Gross.

[cstojano]

Just wait until something steals 900 dollars from you on eBay and they do nothing about it, international "item not as described" scams abound. I wouldn't waste a second getting eBay to try to ban someone. They simply do not care. I've built a collection over 23 years on eBay and at a time would check it religiously multiple times a day. If it disappeared tomorrow I would clap. I do whatever I can to get that 900 dollars back now. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by cstojano

[thehumantorch]

On 11/9/2020 at 10:11 AM, aokartman said:

These days, just think of it as a hidden reserve.  In the olden days, it was a bidding pool.  Similar concept.  David

Do reputable auctioneers operate bidding pools, bidding rings, or shill items in their auctions?

[aokartman]

You are here: Home / Around the Hobby / Mastro Released from Federal Prison Camp

Mastro Released from Federal Prison Camp

June 12, 2017 By Rich Mueller

Former Mastro Auctions CEO Bill Mastro was released from the federal prison camp at Pekin, IL last month.

Bill Mastro

According to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, Mastro would have served about 18 months of a 20-month sentence handed down last August, two years after he admitted to various types of fraud from 2002-2009 including an ongoing shill bidding scheme.  He began serving his sentence in late November 2015.

Doug Allen

In a pre-sentence memoradum, the Chicago area resident pledged through his attorneys that he would never again work in the sports memorabilia business.

He paid a $250,000 fine prior to his sentencing.

Another Mastro employee, Mark Theotikos, is scheduled to be released Wednesday after serving approximately 10 months of his one-year sentence for mail fraud.  Theotikos has been serving his time at the federal camp in Marion, IL.

Former Mastro president Doug Allen is in the Pekin camp and will serve the longest time in federal custody of any of those involved in the case. In February 2016, Allen was sentenced to 57 months.  He has served 13 months thus far. According to the Bureau of Prisons, he’s eligible for early release on June 30, 2019.   

Update:  Prison records indicate Allen was released on July 5, 2019.

 

Above clipped from Sports Collectors Daily.

 

So, it happens you can't necessarily commit fraud and get away with it.

Hence, the full disclosure, albeit in fine print, about bidding at auctions.

If they tell you they are doing it, it isn't fraud.

13. Notice of the consignor’s liberty to place bids on his lots in the Auction is hereby made in accordance with Article 2 of the Texas Business and Commercial Code. A “Minimum Bid” is an amount below which the lot will not sell. THE CONSIGNOR OF PROPERTY MAY PLACE WRITTEN “Minimum Bids” ON HIS LOTS IN ADVANCE OF THE AUCTION; ON SUCH LOTS, IF THE HAMMER PRICE DOES NOT MEET THE “Minimum Bid”, THE CONSIGNOR MAY PAY A REDUCED COMMISSION ON THOSE LOTS. “Minimum Bids” are generally posted online several days prior to the Auction closing. Any successful bid placed by a consignor on his property on the Auction floor, by any means during the live session, or after the “Minimum Bid” for an Auction have been posted, will require the consignor to pay full Buyer’s Premium and Seller’s Commissions on such lot. Auctioneer or its affiliates expressly reserve the right to modify any such bids at any time prior to the hammer based upon data made known to the Auctioneer or its affiliates.

Above clipped from HA.com.  My bold.

Edited November 11, 2020 by aokartman
text added

[AnkurJ]

So basically as long as you pay the buyers premium and seller fee (if any) you can bid in your own lots?

[First Upgrade]

[Crowzilla]

On 11/10/2020 at 10:08 AM, delekkerste said:

I was bidding on a $200-odd dollar sports card item on eBay a week or two ago.  I get outbid with a few minutes remaining in the auction.  No big deal; I'm happy to let it go above my max bid (I usually snipe, but, I think the bidding on this item was already close to my max bid, so, I had already put it in the system).

With literally seconds remaining in the auction, the high bidder cancels his bid and I end up winning the lot.  I click on his bidding profile and find that the guy has 214 bid retractions in the past 30 days and 1,654 in the past six months!!!  ....

This sounds like a great way you can game the system for your benefit. Next time a $200 item comes up and say the bidding is at $70, go ahead and bid $400, then get another ID and outbid yourself. No one else will bid cause the price is so crazy and then just cancel your high bid with a few seconds left and you win it cheap.

[Foolkiller]

Very interesting thread.  illuminating in many ways.  

[cloud cloddie]

34 minutes ago, Foolkiller said:

Very interesting thread.  illuminating in many ways.  

You shoulda seen the ones that got scrapped...

[batman_fan]

[grapeape]

On 11/12/2020 at 1:02 PM, Crowzilla said:

This sounds like a great way you can game the system for your benefit. Next time a $200 item comes up and say the bidding is at $70, go ahead and bid $400, then get another ID and outbid yourself. No one else will bid cause the price is so crazy and then just cancel your high bid with a few seconds left and you win it cheap.

Shhh don’t help them!! Haha 😆 And don’t tempt us 😂 

Nah you’re right but watch the next eBay auction where example: Sh**l*B**d*r666 with (3) feedbacks continually “bumps” up bids. Many of our worst fears are real and they play out on eBay in particular every freaking day.

 

[grapeape]

On 11/13/2020 at 5:22 PM, batman_fan said:

I pissed myself on that one. My Sunday slacks ruined you clown 😂