What's up with X-Force #1? 1 1

[Aweandlorder]

[Broke as a Joke]

1. So 1 out of 7 graded copies is a 9.8.  If you consider the massive print run on this book if they were to start heavily coming in for grading, you're looking at alot of 9.8's.  

[Aweandlorder]

25 minutes ago, Broke as a Joke said:

1. So 1 out of 7 graded copies is a 9.8.  If you consider the massive print run on this book if they were to start heavily coming in for grading, you're looking at alot of 9.8's.  

1 out of 13 (579/43)

if u consider the massive amount of xforce/liefeld fans out there you're looking at a lot of money for that ratio 

[Broke as a Joke]

Right, didn't see the sig series entries.  1 out of 13... on a book that had close to a 5 million (??) Print run.  

[F For Fake]

Precisely. I mean, 9.8's may be relatively tough...but why would anyone want one? Regardless of what the census shows (and I'd wager that the census, while important to a lot of folks on these boards, doesn't mean anything at all to the average comic buyer) I'd suspect that the overwhelming perception is that this book is so plentiful, there's no reason to sub the book at all. That may not be the reality according to the numbers, but I'd still guess that the regular comic buyer's perception of X-Force #1 is that it's practically worthless, because there are simply too many of them out there, therefore it's not being subbed in any large number. I'll fully allow that I could be wrong about all of that, but that's what my gut tells me.

[Mike's Rack]

12 hours ago, Aweandlorder said:

Notice that the sig 9.8 bracket hasnt changed at all in the past 6 months. Which leads me to believe (if I was to assume anything) that most universal submissions were indeed pre-screened at  9.8 (since that number actually did grow by 8)

I was going to point this out.  One indicator that a books it tough in 9.8 is the SS ratio.  Since there is no prescreen, you can get a better picture of the ratio of 9.8's in the general population.  Most people I know go over their SS books pretty closely so only 6 9.8's is telling.  With Liefeld charging $20 and up for sigs, it wouldn't make sense to submit books that didn't have a good shot at 9.8.  I've prepared books for a couple Liefeld signings, I know I didn't have many, if any first prints that I felt were solid 9.8 candidates, but I did have a few second prints. 

[Mike's Rack]

4 hours ago, F For Fake said:

Precisely. I mean, 9.8's may be relatively tough...but why would anyone want one? 

I used to ask this about a lot of books too, but I've seen a lot of what I consider to be sell for significant premiums.  I'm always surprised what some people are willing to pay to have the most competitive registry sets. 

[ygogolak]

4 hours ago, F For Fake said:

Precisely. I mean, 9.8's may be relatively tough...but why would anyone want one? Regardless of what the census shows (and I'd wager that the census, while important to a lot of folks on these boards, doesn't mean anything at all to the average comic buyer) I'd suspect that the overwhelming perception is that this book is so plentiful, there's no reason to sub the book at all. That may not be the reality according to the numbers, but I'd still guess that the regular comic buyer's perception of X-Force #1 is that it's practically worthless, because there are simply too many of them out there, therefore it's not being subbed in any large number. I'll fully allow that I could be wrong about all of that, but that's what my gut tells me.

Why would anyone want any book slabbed?

27 minutes ago, Mike's Rack said:

I was going to point this out.  One indicator that a books it tough in 9.8 is the SS ratio.  Since there is no prescreen, you can get a better picture of the ratio of 9.8's in the general population.  Most people I know go over their SS books pretty closely so only 6 9.8's is telling.  With Liefeld charging $20 and up for sigs, it wouldn't make sense to submit books that didn't have a good shot at 9.8.  I've prepared books for a couple Liefeld signings, I know I didn't have many, if any first prints that I felt were solid 9.8 candidates, but I did have a few second prints. 

We assuming the census is 100% correct. Some of the SS could have come from former blue label 9.8's that were cracked.

[Mike's Rack]

Just now, ygogolak said:

Why would anyone want any book slabbed?

We assuming the census is 100% correct. Some of the SS could have come from former blue label 9.8's that were cracked.

I agree, the census is what it is, never 100%.  But if the SS books are cracked 9.8's that would seem to affirm that it is tough in 9.8.

[Aweandlorder]

5 hours ago, F For Fake said:

Precisely. I mean, 9.8's may be relatively tough...but why would anyone want one? Regardless of what the census shows (and I'd wager that the census, while important to a lot of folks on these boards, doesn't mean anything at all to the average comic buyer) I'd suspect that the overwhelming perception is that this book is so plentiful, there's no reason to sub the book at all. That may not be the reality according to the numbers, but I'd still guess that the regular comic buyer's perception of X-Force #1 is that it's practically worthless, because there are simply too many of them out there, therefore it's not being subbed in any large number. I'll fully allow that I could be wrong about all of that, but that's what my gut tells me.

Why would anyone pay $5000 for Marvel Age 41 signed by stan???

Why would anyone pay 400 for a Web Of Spider-Man 36???

Why would anyone pay 450 for a spawn 1 newsstand???

why would anyone even chase plentiful newsstand editions???

Im sure that if you had all afternoon today you could come with a counter argument for any of these.

I just simply pointed out THE FACTS as we know them today:

X-Force 1 9.8 has been known to be a rare book for over 2 years. This is not news

The census ratio for 9.8 hasnt changed despite this being a known issue

Recent sales reported by a boardie and noted on ebay show this was a quick flip at 200 (ebay shows this was sold within less than 2 hours of listing)

Do you think no one cares to sub drek? guess again, there are over 3,000 X-Men 1 (91) on the census with over half of those being 9.8. That HAS to be the ultimate drek book out there yet look at those numbers.

Why should anyone argue with this if they think they have hundreds of 9.8 copies in their long boxes, here's my advice to you:

GO MAKE THAT MONEY

 

 

[ygogolak]

Everbody's fired up about X-Force #1 today:

 

[SquareChaos]

25 years later and Rob is still pulling out that number.

[revat]

2 hours ago, Aweandlorder said:

7 hours ago, F For Fake said:

Precisely. I mean, 9.8's may be relatively tough...but why would anyone want one? Regardless of what the census shows (and I'd wager that the census, while important to a lot of folks on these boards, doesn't mean anything at all to the average comic buyer) I'd suspect that the overwhelming perception is that this book is so plentiful, there's no reason to sub the book at all. That may not be the reality according to the numbers, but I'd still guess that the regular comic buyer's perception of X-Force #1 is that it's practically worthless, because there are simply too many of them out there, therefore it's not being subbed in any large number. I'll fully allow that I could be wrong about all of that, but that's what my gut tells me.

Why would anyone pay $5000 for Marvel Age 41 signed by stan???

Why would anyone pay 400 for a Web Of Spider-Man 36???

Why would anyone pay 450 for a spawn 1 newsstand???

why would anyone even chase plentiful newsstand editions???

Im sure that if you had all afternoon today you could come with a counter argument for any of these.

I just simply pointed out THE FACTS as we know them today:

X-Force 1 9.8 has been known to be a rare book for over 2 years. This is not news

The census ratio for 9.8 hasnt changed despite this being a known issue

Recent sales reported by a boardie and noted on ebay show this was a quick flip at 200 (ebay shows this was sold within less than 2 hours of listing)

Do you think no one cares to sub drek? guess again, there are over 3,000 X-Men 1 (91) on the census with over half of those being 9.8. That HAS to be the ultimate drek book out there yet look at those numbers.

Why should anyone argue with this if they think they have hundreds of 9.8 copies in their long boxes, here's my advice to you:

GO MAKE THAT MONEY

I agree.  Its not that much of a stretch to say that its pretty rare now, and that many of us have come across full truckloads of Xforce 1 that aren't 9.8 worthy.  And its also safe to expect an increase in demand once Cable pops in DP2 and they announce an Xforce movie, as it doesn't look like New Mutants will lend itself to a sequel so far.  So with a pop, even with more submissions by people, it STILL worth subbing (especially w/pre-screen) even if you only sell for $150.  If you can find 9.8 candidates now for $1-$5, its worth to at least keep an eye out I'd say.  I'd say if you can get it done in the next year or less, there's money to be made.  ALSO, I'd venture to say that if you sold a combo New Mutants 100 WITH XFORCE 1 both CGC 9.8 you could hit a decent combo multiplier.

[porcupine48]

 

[fastballspecial]

Get the money while you can. All books from this period that are "rare" in high grade as soon as its found out there in money in them will bring them out. Lets watch the census in the next year or two.  Fools and their money are soon parted. 

I respect all the opinions here so far and know many of you, but this book isn't by any means rare its just that no one cared about slabbing the book because they thought it was junk. Now that there is some money to be made the will trickle in. 

 

Edited October 18, 2017 by fastballspecial

[RockMyAmadeus]

X-Force #1 didn't sell 5 million copies.

It sold between 1.75 and 2.5 million.

Still impressive, but, as usual, Liefeld is smoking crack.

[F For Fake]

21 hours ago, ygogolak said:

Why would anyone want any book slabbed?

We assuming the census is 100% correct. Some of the SS could have come from former blue label 9.8's that were cracked.

Well, you've got me there, because I'm not sure. I only slab to sell.

[F For Fake]

9 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Still impressive, but, as usual, Liefeld is smoking crack.

Finally, so THAT'S why his art looks like that!

[F For Fake]

The irony here is that the books that probably have the best shot at 9.8 are the ones that people bought off the stands and opened up immediately, as opposed to the ones that people left sealed in plastic, which have been stewing in their own juices while enclosed trading cards leave little impressions and marks all over the books. So chances are, in the long run, the folks who left them sealed "because they'll be worth more" are much worse off than the ones who opened them up way back when.

I'm not going to argue the facts as presented, it's just amazing that the value drop off is so steep, in that as a 9.8 it's a $200 book, but raw it is completely worthless. I know it's not the only example, but it just furthers the idea that number chasers are looney tunes.

[Broke as a Joke]

Regardless of the print run.  (5 million is what I have seen quoted for this book in various places.)  If it was 2.5 million and even 1 out of 50 copies in existence is a 9.8, that is 50,000 9.8's for all the "Liefeld collectors".  I think that more than meets the quota.