Venom Movie 3 3

[evilskip]

I'm going to Netflix this one. I think it would work better as a straight out horror movie, no super hero tie ins.

[NewEnglandGothic]

I changed my mind.  I heard Jenny Slate is in this one. Definitely, going to catch it now.

She's a great New England actress (Gifted, Obvious Child, etc.)

[Artboy99]

My theory: a slow and brilliant way to reveal the Sinister Six. They will each have their own movie, Venom, then Morbius, then Kraven then....

[Chillax23]

14 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

My theory: a slow and brilliant way to reveal the Sinister Six. They will each have their own movie, Venom, then Morbius, then Kraven then....

If done well - that would be great!

[MGsimba77]

On 8/3/2018 at 1:23 AM, ExNihilo said:

As a child of the 80s/90s, and a fan of Spider-Man, Venom, and Tom Hardy, I really hope it does well.  

I too grew up in this time frame. Just curious since you're into Venom. I was debating this question with a co worker recently. Do you think Venom is a "major" character? I don't mean just a major villain but a major character. I happen to have a broader scope of characters I consider major so i think he is at this point. 

Curious to get some other people's views on this?

[Gatsby77]

1 hour ago, MGsimba77 said:

I too grew up in this time frame. Just curious since you're into Venom. I was debating this question with a co worker recently. Do you think Venom is a "major" character? I don't mean just a major villain but a major character. I happen to have a broader scope of characters I consider major so i think he is at this point. 

Curious to get some other people's views on this?

It's funny.

I was primarily reading Spider-Man from 1989 through 1993. And at the time it seemed Venom had replaced both Green Goblin and (my favorite) Hobgoblin as Spidey's # 1 nemesis.

And yeah - for a brief time in 1992-94 he seemed nearly on par with Punisher, Ghost Rider, and Wolverine for Marvel Universe anit-hero staus (i.e., appearing in crossovers literally every month). For me, a huge catalyst for this impression was his run in Marvel Comics Presents -- which seems like it went from "Wolverine & friends" to "Wolverine, Venom & friends" for a time.

For me, "peak Venom" (in terms of over-exposure) was when he appeared (totally gratuitously) in Daredevil's "Fall from Grace" storyline.

And, while I bought a few sets of Lethal Protector, I never actually read beyond issue # 3, nor the later minis or solo series. I couldn't even tell you if he appeared in Maximum Carnage because that series turned me off of symbiotes entirely.

So not only am I unfamiliar with Riot, Scream and the other symbiotes from Lethal Protector, I have no idea how the character has evolved over the past 20+ years.

Is he still a core (top 3) Spidey villain? Is he still Eddie Brock -- or is he now Flash Thompson -- or someone else entirely? And critically -- is he a major Marvel villain or mostly still just a Spidey antagonist?

No idea.

I *like* him, because of his portrayal in Web of # 18, ASM 298-300, 315-317, 332-333, 346-347, 374-375, etc. but don't even know if he's still relevant today.

Analogy -- around the same time period Sabretooth was the # 1 Wolvie villain and one of the hottest villains in comics. I have no idea if he's important, relevant or even alive/active in current continuity. But he's frozen in time in my mind as significant because he was popular in 1991-1993, when I was actively collecting.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Gatsby77

[ExNihilo]

1 hour ago, MGsimba77 said:

I too grew up in this time frame. Just curious since you're into Venom. I was debating this question with a co worker recently. Do you think Venom is a "major" character? I don't mean just a major villain but a major character. I happen to have a broader scope of characters I consider major so i think he is at this point. 

Curious to get some other people's views on this?

I think it boils down to how you define "major" as I would imagine each person has a different definition.  Is a major character someone who has multiple titles or makes multiple appearances or is relevant in many stories (a la Captain America, Iron Man, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Hulk, etc)?  Or is "major" someone who is well known amongst the comic book community (a la Thor, Deadpool, etc).  Frankly, I probably fall in the former category where a characters impact on the universe should be felt in order for them to be considered a "major" character.  I think this really limits who I would consider to be major.  Venom has been relevant for some time.  Eddie Brock Venom though just returned after a long absence from the symbiote.  His reach in the various stories is minimal I would say.  Even in Dan Slott's arcs, Doc Ock played a larger role.  I mean, I understand that Flash had Venom and enjoyed his own run, but did he have an impact in any of the major events?  No.  While that doesn't diminish the characters popularity in any way, I think the lack of a material impact on the universe and its stories would mean I don't view him as a "major" character per se.  But again, my definition could be different from yours or the communities.

I feel like I can't really adequately describe my position.  I'll just say if we were to grade characters on an A thru F scale (much like we do with A-list, B-list, etc celebs), I would say Venom is an A-list character because he's so well known.  But even amongst A-list characters, I think there are a few that would be the equivalent of "superstars".  And in my analogy those "superstars" are what I would consider "major".  So yes, A-list character, but not enough to be a "major" character.

(Gah, hope all those words makes sense.) 

[Gatsby77]

Another thing to mention here: to the public at large, it doesn't matter if Venom was/is a major character.

If the movie does well (and spawns a sequel or two) boom -- he will become one in the eyes of the public.

Granted - not that that happened with Sabretooth's two movie appearances -- or Ghost Rider's, but I think it's far more likely that Venom will see solid success than instantly fade a la Jonah Hex or Ghost Rider.

So far, Box Office tracking has it at grossing at least $40 million its opening weekend, but at least one source says it could hit $85 million, which would be an all-time record for an October release.

[MGsimba77]

20 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

If the movie does well (and spawns a sequel or two) boom -- he will become one in the eyes of the public

Agreed. A lot is riding on this thing! Still hate that we have to depend on Sony for it though . Imo he's the premiere character of the copper age. Maybe an argument could be made for Deadpool but I'd probably consider him as an early modern

[kimik]

1 hour ago, MGsimba77 said:

Agreed. A lot is riding on this thing! Still hate that we have to depend on Sony for it though . Imo he's the premiere character of the copper age. Maybe an argument could be made for Deadpool but I'd probably consider him as an early modern

Do you consider Batman Adventures 12 as  Copper or Modern? If you consider it Copper, an argument can be made that she is the premier character of the Copper Age as 1st Harley sells for similar amounts and she is way more recognized than Venom by the broader public.

If not and you are just going from a comic collector perspective, then Venom >>>> Deadpool. However, if you go by general public awareness and following, it is not even close as Deadpool>>>>>>Venom.

Edited August 18, 2018 by kimik

[MGsimba77]

23 minutes ago, kimik said:

Do you consider Batman Adventures 12 as  Copper or Modern? If you consider it Copper, an argument can be made that she is the premier character of the Copper Age as 1st Harley sells for similar amounts and she is way more recognized than Venom by the broader public.

If not and you are just going from a comic collector perspective, then Venom >>>> Deadpool. However, if you go by general public awareness and following, it is not even close as Deadpool>>>>>>Venom.

It's '93 so modern. Even if it was copper the high for BA 12 is 2500. ASM 300 is much higher census & the highest sold was well over 2500 in same grade. I don't think I agree that Harley Quinn is more familiar to the general public than Venom. 

[Jaydogrules]

31 minutes ago, kimik said:

Do you consider Batman Adventures 12 as  Copper or Modern? If you consider it Copper, an argument can be made that she is the premier character of the Copper Age as 1st Harley sells for similar amounts and she is way more recognized than Venom by the broader public.

If not and you are just going from a comic collector perspective, then Venom >>>> Deadpool. However, if you go by general public awareness and following, it is not even close as Deadpool>>>>>>Venom.

Harley Quinn is a "modern" (or at least whatever the decide comes after the "copper age"). And ASM 300 sells for way more than BA 12 by the way- averages about $600+ more in a 9.8. Venom is more popular than both Harley Quinn and Deadpool by far in comics.  As far as general audiences, yeah that's about a push between all three in reality (at best, and I would give the slight edge to Deadpool/Venom if someone put a gun to my head).

-J.

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Jaydogrules

[Gatsby77]

33 minutes ago, MGsimba77 said:

I don't think I agree that Harley Quinn is more familiar to the general public than Venom. 

And you'd be wrong.

Harley Quinn is far more familiar to the general public than Venom because a whole generation of now 35-45 year-old boys grew up on the Batman Adventures cartoon and she has been a staple costume at comic (and even anime) conventions for a decade now. Prior to the Wonder Woman movie last summer she was the most popular female comics character at shows.

Plus, the Suicide Squad movie came and went -- with Margot Robbie portraying her.

Due to their movies, both Deadpool and HQ are far more recognized by the general public than Venom...

For now...if the Venom movie does well and six years from now there are three of them, that could change.

 

[Gatsby77]

38 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Venom is more popular than both Harley Quinn and Deadpool by far in comics. 

Not as a character.

As of this writing, Venom's appeared in 1,955 comics.

Deadpool's appeared in more than 2,400, despite having been around for four fewer years.

Further -- as some folks were debating a few pages back, Deadpool's interacted with the entire Marvel Universe, whereas (to-date) Venom is still primarily just a Spider-Man antagonist. Venom's got a long way to go to reach Doctor Doom/Thanos levels of Marvel Universe significance, whereas Deadpool's already there.

And yeah - last month Venom # 4 outsold each of Deadpool's four separate solo books, but there you go -- Deadpool's supporting two titles bi-weekly these days; Venom just started a new series (primarily to tie into the movie).

[MGsimba77]

1 hour ago, Gatsby77 said:

Not as a character.

As of this writing, Venom's appeared in 1,955 comics.

Deadpool's appeared in more than 2,400, despite having been around for four fewer years.

Further -- as some folks were debating a few pages back, Deadpool's interacted with the entire Marvel Universe, whereas (to-date) Venom is still primarily just a Spider-Man antagonist. Venom's got a long way to go to reach Doctor Doom/Thanos levels of Marvel Universe significance, whereas Deadpool's already there.

And yeah - last month Venom # 4 outsold each of Deadpool's four separate solo books, but there you go -- Deadpool's supporting two titles bi-weekly these days; Venom just started a new series (primarily to tie into the movie).

More interactions doesn't automatically translate into higher popularity. Why is the demand so much higher for ASM 300 than for NM 98? Why so many more CGC submissions? The idea of a parasite taking over someone's body and engulfing them into an alien symbiote is much more original & interesting than an expert swordsman mercenary with super healing factor. 

But hey it's just an opinion. They're both highly successful characters. Deadpool has already had his Hollywood moment. Now it's Venom's turn!!!... We shall see... 

[Broke as a Joke]

Deadpool > Venom.  Character has been consistent since he first appeared.  Venom is only now Eddie Brock again, after being different people for almost a decade.  If a character can exist that long with a totally different persona, then something is not really connecting with the original concept.  

[kimik]

9 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

Harley Quinn is a "modern" (or at least whatever the decide comes after the "copper age"). And ASM 300 sells for way more than BA 12 by the way- averages about $600+ more in a 9.8. Venom is more popular than both Harley Quinn and Deadpool by far in comics.  As far as general audiences, yeah that's about a push between all three in reality (at best, and I would give the slight edge to Deadpool/Venom if someone put a gun to my head).

-J.

 

ASM #300 is only selling for higher prices than BA 12 right now due to the Venom movie. I expect it to drop from the current peak just like every key does, but likely still stay a bit ahead of BA 12 for now due to the lack of new Harley movie appearances.. Go back two years to when the Harley hype was peaking due to SS and BA 12 was outselling ASM 300 by ~$800 in CGC 9.8. 

If you go by general public, it would be Harley, then Deadpool, and finally Venom in order of popularity. You will see way more Harleys or Harley and Joker couples at shows than DP, while there will be very few if an Venoms. While the Venom movie may be a success, the character still has a long way to catch up to either Harley or Deadpool in general public popularity.

[Jaydogrules]

38 minutes ago, kimik said:

ASM #300 is only selling for higher prices than BA 12 right now due to the Venom movie. I expect it to drop from the current peak just like every key does, but likely still stay a bit ahead of BA 12 for now due to the lack of new Harley movie appearances.. Go back two years to when the Harley hype was peaking due to SS and BA 12 was outselling ASM 300 by ~$800 in CGC 9.8. 

If you go by general public, it would be Harley, then Deadpool, and finally Venom in order of popularity. You will see way more Harleys or Harley and Joker couples at shows than DP, while there will be very few if an Venoms. While the Venom movie may be a success, the character still has a long way to catch up to either Harley or Deadpool in general public popularity.

Erm yeah I don't know about that.  Movie hype aside, ASM 300 has historically sold for significantly more than BA 12.  Going back to 2012 BA 12 topped out at $300 while ASM 300 was $700.  It was pretty much the suicide squad movie that put that book on general collectors' radars and caused the book to seriously spike, whereas McFarlane, ASM, anniversary issue, classic cover, etc have always had ASM 300 in demand. Now that Venom has his own solo film I highly doubt BA 12 will ever be within spitting distance of it again in terms of value, despite having half as many 9.8 slabs (and SIGNIFCANTLY less slabs overall).

And call me crazy but I don't judge the popularity of a character by how many cosplayers I see at a con. I would not consider those people "general audiences". I judge by what my friend's school aged kids talk about.   And they know who all three characters are (Venom, Deadpool, Harley), and I don't think Venom would be tracking as well as it is if it didn't already have a sizable GP awareness already (which it does). It is going to be the #1 movie of the Fall for a reason.  

-J.

[aardvark88]

On 8/13/2018 at 5:59 PM, Artboy99 said:

My theory: a slow and brilliant way to reveal the Sinister Six. They will each have their own movie, Venom, then Morbius, then Kraven then....

fyi, Mysterio has been announced as Tom Holland's ASM's  next movie villian.

[Gatsby77]

Just now, aardvark88 said:

fyi, Mysterio has been announced as Tom Holland's ASM's  next movie villian.

Mysterio  - and the Chamelon.