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Persistent Ebayer wants to deal privately

Started by jcjames,

1,072 posts in this topic

Vger7

Vger7

Posted
Posted

Geez... its a war zone in here. I'm afraid to step back in but here are a few more points to consider:

 

• I once worked for a company that stipulated in their contract that if I ever left, I couldn't seek other work, which was ridiculous. The human resources person told me that it's just a "catch all" statement for the company to protect itself. He knew it was bogus and said that the company would never legally pursue such a thing. I spoke to a lawyer about it as well and he confirmed that it would never hold up in court. Not saying that eBay's terms are the same thing but many corporate statements don't have any weight to them. I've worked on tons of annual reports and the lawyers tend to over pad company statements in order try and cover all the bases... much like a prenuptial agreement. And if any of you has ever been through a divorce, then you also know that a prenuptial is only as solid as the strength of your lawyer.

 

• eBay is an automated machine. They make no accommodations for the individual seller... So, to compare selling on eBay to dealing with a broker is not the same thing.

 

• I've had many buyers on eBay who refuse to pay after winning an auction. eBay does nothing to help the seller in this situation. I can't even leave a negative feedback and I have to pay another listing fee (yes it's small but we're talking principle). I agree that two wrongs don't make a right but if eBay is essentially looking out for their own interests, I feel somewhat justified to look out for mine.

 

• I spoke to an eBay agent and they know that transactions occur outside of eBay. If eBay itself, can be tolerant, why can't we?

 

• If we were to ridiculously follow the letter of the law like many are doing, according to eBays policy overview, it states:

 

Make sure you follow these guidelines. If you don't, you may be subject to a range of actions, including limits of your buying and selling privileges and suspension of your account.

 

I think we have all accepted this and are prepared for the consequence. They also state:

 

Items purchased through an offer made outside of eBay aren't eligible for eBay services, including: Feedback, Requests for contact information, Problem resolution, eBay Buyer Protection.

 

I think this is fine as well... to relinquish these services in favor of transacting independently. Lastly:

 

...members can't use information obtained from eBay to contact each other about buying or selling outside of eBay.

 

Ridiculous, I know... but you can't pick and choose what rules to follow while wagging your fingers at others.

 

• Stealing and fee avoidance are completely different and are not interchangeable. Nobody actually wants to pay fees. It's a very understandable frame of mind so let's not be overly dramatic.

 

• If people always followed the rules made by others in a position of power, things would never change. We'd all still be living in a feudal system. If we don't like aspects about eBay, we are free to act. Sometimes our acts may contradict corporate policy but necessary in order to instill change.

 

• Many buyers have reneged on deals with me, but... because they are people, and it's only comics, and people often change their minds, I don't over react. I don't accuse them of being evil or slam them because they changed their mind. Yes, it's annoying but that's all it is.

 

• Do you consider Batman to be a hero or villain?

 

BTW... do you guys pay taxes on profits from your comic sales as capital gains?

 

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rjrjr

rjrjr

Posted
Posted

I don't know if this matter or not, but eBay is a corporation, yes, but it is a company made up of thousands of employees. So, it is not just a nameless corporation that is impacted by unethical behavior but the employees of that corporation as well. As one of you pointed out, those "savings" by completing deals off eBay add up.

 

This ME first attitude by people is why new laws require an entire tree worth of paper. We can no longer rely on common sense or ethics, we need to spell out exactly what the law entails and think about all the possible loopholes, unethical behavior, etc. It wasn't always like that. But that is where we are now as a society.

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kav

kav

Posted
Posted

This is the best point made to screw ebay whenever you get the chance:

 

" I've had many buyers on eBay who refuse to pay after winning an auction. eBay does nothing to help the seller in this situation. I can't even leave a negative feedback and I have to pay another listing fee (yes it's small but we're talking principle). I agree that two wrongs don't make a right but if eBay is essentially looking out for their own interests, I feel somewhat justified to look out for mine. "

 

Also, ebay states that 'chance auctions' are forbidden-yet you can report them till the cows come home and they do NOTHING.

You can report a super fraudster like jamcook237 who repeatedly lists provably fraudulent auctions and his email address demanding that you contact him outside ebay and ebay NEVER NARUS HIM.

 

So hey ebay-if you are not going to follow YOUR OWN RULES why should we?

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Jeffro.

Jeffro.

Posted
Posted

 

BTW... do you guys pay taxes on profits from your comic sales as capital gains?

 

Two wrongs make a right

Everyone else is doing it

 

Can anyone come up with any other rationalizing slogans? I'm sure there are others

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ebtorres

ebtorres

Posted
Posted

 

BTW... do you guys pay taxes on profits from your comic sales as capital gains?

 

Two wrongs make a right

Everyone else is doing it

 

Can anyone come up with any other rationalizing slogans? I'm sure there are others

 

"Because I'm sticking it to the man" and "Because I'm a rebel without a cause" come to mind.

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MetalPSI

MetalPSI

Posted
Posted

Here's a scene I'd like to share....

 

I played an MMORPG for a little bit and learned just what dispicable filth just lies around the corner in the human psyche.

 

I was in a common area, minding my own business, learning crafting skills to level up my character, it was late at night, not many players on, maybe 20-30.

 

SO I'm crafting away, and a Aussie voice pipes up, sounded early 20ish and is asking people if they could make level 1 to 10 runes for a full set of armor. Willing to pay 10k gold.

 

Well I was fairly new at the game and needed some cash, and I saw that was a task I could totally handle, had all the items I needed handy. I turned my mic on and said "Sure, I could do that"

 

We hashed out the details, I made the items, he paid. Transaction complete.

 

I go back to work thinking, hey this game is pretty alright.

 

A few seconds go by, and the aussie starts losing his mind, what he had asked for was the wrong level.

 

Now, I was new to this game and I was still learning the lingo. I heard level 1-10. When I saw his character he was wearing some pretty cool gear, but it didn't dawn on me he was a VETERAN level. If anyone needs an explaination, you get to level 50, then the levels start again at 1. Vet level 1, vet level 2 and so on.

 

Anyways, so the guy is seriously upset, other people in the room are laughing pretty hard, I turn my mic on again, let him know I am still here. I apologize and state I am pretty new to the game, I didn't fully understand what he wanted. I offer to refund his money and not to worry about the items I had to use up to make the stuff for him. He had offered to pay me back for those items.

 

He was upset, said some things along the lines of how stupid I was that I couldn't see he was a vet character. I chose to ignore that. People are people.

 

Anyways, he left as soon as I gave him his money back, people were still cat calling and laughing of course.

 

Then some people started talking. "Why'd you give him his money back? That was a lesson for him to learn" to which I said, "Well yeah, the transaction was completed, there was no recourse for me to give him his money back. I could have stayed quiet and left. But what an utter person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed move. He may have not been clear on what he wanted, but is that any reason to keep his money when an honest mistake happens?"

 

And I heard a lot of the same, "Man I wouldn't have given him his money back, he asked for level 1 to 10 and that's what you gave him. He deserved to lose his money"

 

And I said, "Yeah, if I was a individual_without_enough_empathy I should have kept his money"

 

Never went back to that area unless I had to. Eventually just put the controller down altogether.

 

I dunno, just thought I share this. Doesn't really have much to do with the topic I guess, but just something I thought maybe someone would like to read

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wombat

wombat

Posted
Posted

 

• Stealing and fee avoidance are completely different and are not interchangeable. Nobody actually wants to pay fees. It's a very understandable frame of mind so let's not be overly dramatic.

 

 

Not wanting to pay fees and not paying fees are completely different and are not interchangeable.

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Comicopolis

Comicopolis

Posted
Posted

 

BTW... do you guys pay taxes on profits from your comic sales as capital gains?

 

Two wrongs make a right

Everyone else is doing it

 

Can anyone come up with any other rationalizing slogans? I'm sure there are others

 

There was a thread in the marketplace recently where the guy didn't want to pay his taxes and made the same argument.

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Doohickamabob

Doohickamabob

Posted
Posted

• Stealing and fee avoidance are completely different and are not interchangeable. Nobody actually wants to pay fees. It's a very understandable frame of mind so let's not be overly dramatic.

 

Your post was pretty good up until the line above. Instead of offering an argument, you make a statement without offering any supporting reasoning: "Stealing and fee avoidance are completely different." Then you add: "Let's not be overly dramatic." Those are just your opinions. What's your reasoning? Though I can see a case for stealing and fee avoidance having subtle differences, there are also many similarities. It's not "dramatic" for me to say so. If you go out of your way to avoid paying the fee for a service you're using, then there's certainly a form of stealing going on. Whether you care about this form of stealing, or whether you can find a way to justify it as an acceptable form of stealing, that doesn't change the question of whether it is stealing.

 

• If people always followed the rules made by others in a position of power, things would never change. We'd all still be living in a feudal system. If we don't like aspects about eBay, we are free to act. Sometimes our acts may contradict corporate policy but necessary in order to instill change.

Historically, and realistically, the one way we are most "free to act" is by not using eBay's services if we object to something about them. In your posts, I do not see you making any substantial objections to eBay's current system that would justify action on the level of fee avoidance. Nor do you make a case for how fee avoidance behaviors can "instill change" that you seek. Often such behaviors actually make companies worse -- they have to charge higher fees elsewhere in order to make up for the shrink when people steal.

 

• Many buyers have reneged on deals with me, but... because they are people, and it's only comics, and people often change their minds, I don't over react. I don't accuse them of being evil or slam them because they changed their mind. Yes, it's annoying but that's all it is.

I agree that people shouldn't be calling other people evil, etc. But some of this stuff does make people angry, and that's their right. Buyers renegging on deals is a different matter than using an ongoing system to avoid fees. There's a simple way to deal with buyers who reneg -- you can block them. You can even share their names on this forum so others can block them. And eBay notices when buyers have multiple unpaid items, and takes some action (though I don't know what actions they take exactly -- it has probably changed over the years). The fact that buyers can back out on deals shouldn't be a justification for fee avoidance.

 

BTW... do you guys pay taxes on profits from your comic sales as capital gains?

I've heard people discussing this matter on here. Many of the big-ticket buyers/sellers do pay taxes on their sales and they'd be on the line legally if they didn't. I think there's a threshold under which hobby profits do not need to be reported as income. Last I head it was $20,000 per year.

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Doohickamabob

Doohickamabob

Posted
Posted
This is the best point made to screw ebay whenever you get the chance:

 

Also, ebay states that 'chance auctions' are forbidden-yet you can report them till the cows come home and they do NOTHING.

You can report a super fraudster like jamcook237 who repeatedly lists provably fraudulent auctions and his email address demanding that you contact him outside ebay and ebay NEVER NARUS HIM.

 

So hey ebay-if you are not going to follow YOUR OWN RULES why should we?

 

For all the sellers who eBay should block who don't seem to be blocked, I've also seen several listings get pulled and users blocked. It often happens here, where somebody posts the link to a fraudulent auction, then later in the message thread somebody writes "poof" and the link goes to an eBay page that shows the listing has been removed.

 

eBay definitely should keep fighting fraud as hard as possible. If they don't, they risk more than fee avoidance. They risk losing a lot of longtime buyers and sellers altogether.

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Junkdrawer

Junkdrawer

Posted
Posted
If you go out of your way to avoid paying the fee for a service, then there's certainly a form of stealing going on.
Sometimes I avoid the toll road to avoid paying the toll. I drive a little extra but it never feels like stealing, but rather saving.
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Doohickamabob

Doohickamabob

Posted
Posted
If you go out of your way to avoid paying the fee for a service, then there's certainly a form of stealing going on.
Sometimes I avoid the toll road to avoid paying the toll. I drive a little extra but it never feels like stealing, but rather saving.

So you use Craigslist?

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