Persistent Ebayer wants to deal privately

[Junkdrawer]

If you go out of your way to avoid paying the fee for a service, then there's certainly a form of stealing going on.

Sometimes I avoid the toll road to avoid paying the toll. I drive a little extra but it never feels like stealing, but rather saving.

So you use Craigslist?

Not in the last 2 yrs

 

[Doohickamabob]

If you go out of your way to avoid paying the fee for a service, then there's certainly a form of stealing going on.

Sometimes I avoid the toll road to avoid paying the toll. I drive a little extra but it never feels like stealing, but rather saving.

So you use Craigslist?

Not in the last 2 yrs

Well Craigslist would be the equivalent to what you wrote. Or some other service besides eBay. I'm talking about "avoiding the fee for a service that you've been using," not "avoiding the fee for a service by not using the service," which is equivalent to your non-toll-road example.

[bcphillips119]

Well, we now know that youmechooz's price is $400.

 

Cool Transactions Off Ebay

 

Anyone else want to chime in with their price? Everyone can be bought

Id complete a transaction off of ebay to save $5.

 

It's smart... Financial awareness.

[Lazyboy]

Thanks to eBay I have been able to enjoy getting complete runs of Atlas war comics which would have taken decades if even at all possible without eBay.

 

You misspelled "the World Wide Web." Twice.

 

Now we have "spoon" posting on these boards who are justifying trying to undermine eBay and basically bite the hand that feeds, and actually have the audacity to defend their illegal behavior,

 

Some of the things eBay does and has done are actually illegal. A user violating eBay policy... not so much.

 

This hobby, and these boards in particular, while very rewarding, are also, I am slowly learning,... filled with many. self important, me generation "spoon"

 

and far too many like you.

[Junkdrawer]

If you go out of your way to avoid paying the fee for a service, then there's certainly a form of stealing going on.

Sometimes I avoid the toll road to avoid paying the toll. I drive a little extra but it never feels like stealing, but rather saving.

So you use Craigslist?

Not in the last 2 yrs

Well Craigslist would be the equivalent to what you wrote. Or some other service besides eBay. I'm talking about "avoiding the fee for a service that you've been using," not "avoiding the fee for a service by not using the service," which is equivalent to your non-toll-road example.

I drive home through the toll rd cause they only charge in bound. Thats stealing I guess.

[wombat]

I think someone mentioned it earlier, but I would be interested to hear what those that have no issue with this think about someone asking for GPA data from someone else? Do you consider that wrong?

 

[youmechooz]

This is the best point made to screw ebay whenever you get the chance:

 

Also, ebay states that 'chance auctions' are forbidden-yet you can report them till the cows come home and they do NOTHING.

You can report a super fraudster like jamcook237 who repeatedly lists provably fraudulent auctions and his email address demanding that you contact him outside ebay and ebay NEVER NARUS HIM.

 

So hey ebay-if you are not going to follow YOUR OWN RULES why should we?

 

For all the sellers who eBay should block who don't seem to be blocked, I've also seen several listings get pulled and users blocked. It often happens here, where somebody posts the link to a fraudulent auction, then later in the message thread somebody writes "poof" and the link goes to an eBay page that shows the listing has been removed.

 

eBay definitely should keep fighting fraud as hard as possible. If they don't, they risk more than fee avoidance. They risk losing a lot of longtime buyers and sellers altogether.

It's like you don't think they have all of this figured out in their business model. Huge stores like Walmart and target add a percent onto each item sold to cover theft. Even if there was no theft, they would still add it. Ebay is a huge company that has pretty smart people working for them that have already thought of what you are saying and already came up with a solution. You pointing it out just sounds funny. Like if you walked into a board meeting and told them all of this and warned they risk more than fee avoidance, they would say thank you and after you left, "Didn't we already plan for all of this?" "Yeah" "So what was he talking about?" "He's upset people are breaking the rules to save money. He isn't doing it because he says its theft" Boardroom erupts in laughter.

[youmechooz]

I think someone mentioned it earlier, but I would be interested to hear what those that have no issue with this think about someone asking for GPA data from someone else? Do you consider that wrong?

 

I subscribe because I use it.

I also pay ebay for a store subscription because I use it.

[fastballspecial]

I think someone mentioned it earlier, but I would be interested to hear what those that have no issue with this think about someone asking for GPA data from someone else? Do you consider that wrong?

 

 

Have a done them a favor in the past and I am asking for a return favor for the one time I might need GPA data for the next 2 years? Then I have no issue.

 

If I am asking broadly for help daily/monthly then its different.

 

[Vger7]

I don't know if this matter or not, but eBay is a corporation, yes, but it is a company made up of thousands of employees. So, it is not just a nameless corporation that is impacted by unethical behavior but the employees of that corporation as well. As one of you pointed out, those "savings" by completing deals off eBay add up.

 

Not true. If the issues from the music industry has revealed anything, it is that the workers get paid the same no matter how much profits a corporation brings in. So all those IT workers from India will remain under paid. Yes, it's a simplistic view, but where eBay is concerned, we're essentially talking about corporate profits.

 

This ME first attitude by people is why new laws require an entire tree worth of paper. We can no longer rely on common sense or ethics, we need to spell out exactly what the law entails and think about all the possible loopholes, unethical behavior, etc. It wasn't always like that. But that is where we are now as a society.

 

The premise of ethical egoism is that every being has a right to survive. I actually argued against this in my thesis but at it's most basic level, it does hold true. I don't see why it's okay for eBay to have a "ME attitude" but not the individual. We are where we are as a society because corporations have convinced politicians to put those "loopholes" in place to begin with. The individual does not have a small army of lawyers to support our own "ME attitude".

[Vger7]

 

BTW... do you guys pay taxes on profits from your comic sales as capital gains?

 

Two wrongs make a right

Everyone else is doing it

 

Can anyone come up with any other rationalizing slogans? I'm sure there are others

 

How about "an eye for an eye". It was the prevailing form of justice for hundreds of years... and to some extent still holds true. It works for the mob.

[Vger7]

 

BTW... do you guys pay taxes on profits from your comic sales as capital gains?

 

Two wrongs make a right

Everyone else is doing it

 

Can anyone come up with any other rationalizing slogans? I'm sure there are others

 

There was a thread in the marketplace recently where the guy didn't want to pay his taxes and made the same argument.

 

This was a nod to the hypocritical nature of the finger waggers.

[wombat]

So basically anything someone does that might be considered wrong can just be countered with "YOU DIDN'T PAY ALL OF YOUR TAXES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

Makes sense.

[wombat]

Am I the only one that keeps a list of ebay IDs from people I don't like so I can give them out when people ask for IDs?

 

[Doohickamabob]

If you go out of your way to avoid paying the fee for a service, then there's certainly a form of stealing going on.

Sometimes I avoid the toll road to avoid paying the toll. I drive a little extra but it never feels like stealing, but rather saving.

So you use Craigslist?

Not in the last 2 yrs

Well Craigslist would be the equivalent to what you wrote. Or some other service besides eBay. I'm talking about "avoiding the fee for a service that you've been using," not "avoiding the fee for a service by not using the service," which is equivalent to your non-toll-road example.

I drive home through the toll rd cause they only charge in bound. Thats stealing I guess.

Your analogy doesn't even make sense now. Avoid taking the LSAT...

[Doohickamabob]

This is the best point made to screw ebay whenever you get the chance:

 

Also, ebay states that 'chance auctions' are forbidden-yet you can report them till the cows come home and they do NOTHING.

You can report a super fraudster like jamcook237 who repeatedly lists provably fraudulent auctions and his email address demanding that you contact him outside ebay and ebay NEVER NARUS HIM.

 

So hey ebay-if you are not going to follow YOUR OWN RULES why should we?

 

For all the sellers who eBay should block who don't seem to be blocked, I've also seen several listings get pulled and users blocked. It often happens here, where somebody posts the link to a fraudulent auction, then later in the message thread somebody writes "poof" and the link goes to an eBay page that shows the listing has been removed.

 

eBay definitely should keep fighting fraud as hard as possible. If they don't, they risk more than fee avoidance. They risk losing a lot of longtime buyers and sellers altogether.

It's like you don't think they have all of this figured out in their business model. Huge stores like Walmart and target add a percent onto each item sold to cover theft. Even if there was no theft, they would still add it. Ebay is a huge company that has pretty smart people working for them that have already thought of what you are saying and already came up with a solution. You pointing it out just sounds funny.

It seemed relevant to the discussion.

 

There's plenty else written around here that "sounds funny"...

[Vger7]

• Stealing and fee avoidance are completely different and are not interchangeable. Nobody actually wants to pay fees. It's a very understandable frame of mind so let's not be overly dramatic.

 

Your post was pretty good up until the line above. Instead of offering an argument, you make a statement without offering any supporting reasoning: "Stealing and fee avoidance are completely different." Then you add: "Let's not be overly dramatic." Those are just your opinions. What's your reasoning? Though I can see a case for stealing and fee avoidance having subtle differences, there are also many similarities. It's not "dramatic" for me to say so. If you go out of your way to avoid paying the fee for a service you're using, then there's certainly a form of stealing going on. Whether you care about this form of stealing, or whether you can find a way to justify it as an acceptable form of stealing, that doesn't change the question of whether it is stealing.

 

Thank for your compliment. I think you've made some really compelling points yourself. My opinion ties in with my point about eBay having a tolerance that doesn't seem to be demonstrated here. The point being, many people are judging too harshly over a minor corporate infraction at best.

 

• If people always followed the rules made by others in a position of power, things would never change. We'd all still be living in a feudal system. If we don't like aspects about eBay, we are free to act. Sometimes our acts may contradict corporate policy but necessary in order to instill change.

Historically, and realistically, the one way we are most "free to act" is by not using eBay's services if we object to something about them. In your posts, I do not see you making any substantial objections to eBay's current system that would justify action on the level of fee avoidance. Nor do you make a case for how fee avoidance behaviors can "instill change" that you seek. Often such behaviors actually make companies worse -- they have to charge higher fees elsewhere in order to make up for the shrink when people steal.

 

Not true. When eBay raises their prices, it's primarily for the sake of pleasing the shareholders, not to make up lost $$ from direct sales. It's hard to say how much $$ we are talking about but I can't imagine that the occasional direct sale would amount to much, especially when 95% of my sales do follow policy.

 

As well eBay is primarily a service, not a product so there isn't much in the way of rising cost to justify price hikes. Yes, there is operations but to run an office is minimal relative to the scale of eBay. They also outsource to the third world. Is eBay unAmerican or unethical themselves for giving jobs to foreign workers? How about if these workers are underpaid? Don't answer this... I don't want us to get side track but it's food for thought.

 

The occupy wall street was a valid response from the masses. But the masses don't have the resources to combat inequality. The masses are unorganized but remain free to express themselves. Weather they choose fee avoidance or opt out of eBay all together to communicate their discontent is an individual choice.

 

• Many buyers have reneged on deals with me, but... because they are people, and it's only comics, and people often change their minds, I don't over react. I don't accuse them of being evil or slam them because they changed their mind. Yes, it's annoying but that's all it is.

I agree that people shouldn't be calling other people evil, etc. But some of this stuff does make people angry, and that's their right. Buyers renegging on deals is a different matter than using an ongoing system to avoid fees. There's a simple way to deal with buyers who reneg -- you can block them. You can even share their names on this forum so others can block them. And eBay notices when buyers have multiple unpaid items, and takes some action (though I don't know what actions they take exactly -- it has probably changed over the years). The fact that buyers can back out on deals shouldn't be a justification for fee avoidance.

 

It's okay to be angry but if you throw fuel on fire, everybody gets burned. I basically agree with you here but I also think it's in eBay's best interest to keep people happy. The strength of eBay is us... the active users. They know this which is why they have a tolerance. Even back end deals do contribute to eBay's appeal and they still make money from our listings. Fee avoidance is just one perspective. But often, that 10% is all that's needed to complete sale. So if a direct deal happens, both seller and buyer are happy and will be back giving eBay more activity, most of which are well within their policy.The result is that they'll be able to sell more ads.

 

BTW... do you guys pay taxes on profits from your comic sales as capital gains?

I've heard people discussing this matter on here. Many of the big-ticket buyers/sellers do pay taxes on their sales and they'd be on the line legally if they didn't. I think there's a threshold under which hobby profits do not need to be reported as income. Last I head it was $20,000 per year.

 

My point with the taxes is that I have a hard time accepting judgement from people who are not perfect themselves. I'm pretty sure, most people citing "ethical" behavior are not any more, or less "ethical" than those who deal out side of eBay. In fact, I could give you a list of 2 or 3 dozen names of people who I've dealt with directly. About 1/3 of them are CGC board members. Many of them who are well "respected" within this community. I find it hard to believe that these people are "unethical" because of a few outside transactions.

[Doohickamabob]

Not true. If the issues from the music industry has revealed anything, it is that the workers get paid the same no matter how much profits a corporation brings in.

Profits go down, people lose jobs.

 

[Doohickamabob]

BTW... do you guys pay taxes on profits from your comic sales as capital gains?

Two wrongs make a right

Everyone else is doing it

 

Can anyone come up with any other rationalizing slogans? I'm sure there are others

How about "an eye for an eye". It was the prevailing form of justice for hundreds of years... and to some extent still holds true. It works for the mob.

Great, now we're using the mob and the Old Testament to make a case...

[MetalPSI]

This is the best point made to screw ebay whenever you get the chance:

 

Also, ebay states that 'chance auctions' are forbidden-yet you can report them till the cows come home and they do NOTHING.

You can report a super fraudster like jamcook237 who repeatedly lists provably fraudulent auctions and his email address demanding that you contact him outside ebay and ebay NEVER NARUS HIM.

 

So hey ebay-if you are not going to follow YOUR OWN RULES why should we?

 

For all the sellers who eBay should block who don't seem to be blocked, I've also seen several listings get pulled and users blocked. It often happens here, where somebody posts the link to a fraudulent auction, then later in the message thread somebody writes "poof" and the link goes to an eBay page that shows the listing has been removed.

 

eBay definitely should keep fighting fraud as hard as possible. If they don't, they risk more than fee avoidance. They risk losing a lot of longtime buyers and sellers altogether.

It's like you don't think they have all of this figured out in their business model. Huge stores like Walmart and target add a percent onto each item sold to cover theft. Even if there was no theft, they would still add it. Ebay is a huge company that has pretty smart people working for them that have already thought of what you are saying and already came up with a solution. You pointing it out just sounds funny. Like if you walked into a board meeting and told them all of this and warned they risk more than fee avoidance, they would say thank you and after you left, "Didn't we already plan for all of this?" "Yeah" "So what was he talking about?" "He's upset people are breaking the rules to save money. He isn't doing it because he says its theft" Boardroom erupts in laughter.

 

I've been reading your posts in the journal section. I seriously hope you push yourself so hard that you break into the million dollar a year market. I will treasure this post if you do.