C2E2 + April 21-23 2017, It's Never Too Early or to late 4 4

[Foolkiller]

11 minutes ago, october said:

Buying at the show was terrible, and I was there Thursday morning. I bought a ton of $5 junk, but if you weren't the first one or two guys through a booth everything was gone. Missed out on some good stuff from Zapp and Ritter. Bottom line? You can't expect to show up at a big con like C2E2 on Friday or later and find a lot in the way of deals. It's only worth going during setup and only if you are comfortable being pushy....and then barely. 

*this is assuming you need a healthy discount to retail, which I do. 

Luckily other buying opportunities that weekend were much, much better. About done with big cons, unless I am in town anyway.

Sorry I missed you Andy!  In general I agree with your sentiment about big cons, and I don't think there are great deals any more on the cheaper stuff always.  But Tom Nelson was there buying through Friday and scored some very good deals (in some unusual spots).  I found books with Kapelka (although I was early) and a few other dealers.  Kapelka had a nice pre-Robin tec slab and some other high grade cool books.  Had I been more aggressive I would have with Ted as well.  Muchin's inventory was weaker, but I still found a few really nice ones.   I spent over $16k at the show and was pleased with how many decent books I got.  I felt I got some good deals with Leroy and he had some really nice stuff as well, and as guys got stuff back from onsite, you were able to find stuff.  That said, you are correct, and as it always is the case, buying outside of a big con is the way to go.  But I do think you are interested in wider margin wins (like me) and to score that kind of stuff, you can't do it a big show generally.  

[1Cool]

14 minutes ago, october said:

Buying at the show was terrible, and I was there Thursday morning. I bought a ton of $5 junk, but if you weren't the first one or two guys through a booth everything was gone. Missed out on some good stuff from Zapp and Ritter. Bottom line? You can't expect to show up at a big con like C2E2 on Friday or later and find a lot in the way of deals. It's only worth going during setup and only if you are comfortable being pushy....and then barely. 

*this is assuming you need a healthy discount to retail, which I do. 

Luckily other buying opportunities that weekend were much, much better. About done with big cons, unless I am in town anyway.

I saw you walking by on Saturday and it was so busy I couldn't squeeze over to say hi.  I did feel like an extra geek by nudging my wife and said "that's October".  She kind of gave me that "WTF are you talking about" rolls of the eyes.  Sometimes I forget she is not cool like me.

[Foolkiller]

25 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

I only talked to a couple of the dealers on Saturday about grades coming back and none of them where big dealers like Dale or Bob so it's good to get more info.  Are you saying the dealers not swamping the onsite grading (evident by the onsite not filling up until later in the day) was caused by dealers not having books to grade since they already graded them in the regular process?  Baltimore limited dealers to 50 books and it still filled up available spots at Baltimore in a couple hours last year.  So most dealers had far less then 50 books that they would like to get back in a day for a few dollars more then it would cost to get them back in a couple weeks?  Just does not seem to add up to me but you had more direct contact with the heavy subbers then I did.

Yes, I think most dealers have cycled through because TATs are strong.  And yes, most dealers do value those few dollars.  Also, remember that they get a discount on grading by submitting through the normal process and don't for on site.  

[mschmidt]

1 hour ago, 1Cool said:

I'm sure the TATs had some impact but if CGC was not in a tight grading period I'd think you would still see a ton of dealers getting books graded at the show.  For $25 a modern book it's only a few dollars more when you consider shipping cost back and forth so why wouldn't dealers still want to get books graded in a day?  The answer to me seems obvious - dealers want to prescreen since they have become scared of the grades they will get back.  I didn't see nearly as much books being picked up at CGC since I was not set up but the couple stacks I flipped thru had almost no 9.8s in them but a ton of 9.6s.

The general public just like getting a book graded and most don't have a clear idea of what grade they will get so I can understand why you would see an increase in that area.

CGC is grading pretty much the same they've been grading for the last 3-4 years. I know you like to claim that CGC is somehow "extra tight" right now, but none of the dealers I know think that's true, nor do I feel this to be the case myself (and I've been submitting books to CGC regularly for the last 10 years).

So, no, dealers aren't really pre-screening more than they normally do nor are they "scared" of doing on-site grading. Also ... the cost for on-site grading isn't $25, it's $30 an unsigned modern book - considering that with a dealer discount mailaway books are $14.40 each, it's a difference far higher than just a couple of bucks.

The vast, vast majority of onsite-graded modern books that came back this weekend were 9.8s - just like it's the case for every on-site show.

Edited April 24, 2017 by mschmidt

[october]

3 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

I saw you walking by on Saturday and it was so busy I couldn't squeeze over to say hi.  I did feel like an extra geek by nudging my wife and said "that's October".  She kind of gave me that "WTF are you talking about" rolls of the eyes.  Sometimes I forget she is not cool like me.

I wasn't there on Saturday. Must have been my doppelganger. 

[1Cool]

Just now, mschmidt said:

CGC is grading pretty much the same they've been grading for the last 3-4 years. I know you like to claim that CGC is somehow "extra tight" right now, but none of the dealers I know think that's true, nor do I feel this to be the case myself (and I've been submitting books to CGC regularly for the last 10 years).

So, no, dealers aren't really pre-screening more than they normally do nor are they "scared" of doing on-site grading. Also ... the cost for on-site grading isn't $25, it's $30 an unsigned modern book - considering that with a dealer discount mailaway books are $14.40 each, it's a difference far higher than just a couple of bucks.

The vast majority of onsite-graded modern books that came back this weekend were 9.8s - just like it's the case for every on-site show.

That's right - they did raise it a Baltimore to $30.  And we still swamped the system within an hour each day.  Maybe the quick turn around time had a bigger effect then I thought.  And of course there had to be 3 times more comic book dealers at Baltimore then C2E2.  I can only go by what I see coming back so thanks for the info.

[1Cool]

1 minute ago, october said:

I wasn't there on Saturday. Must have been my doppelganger. 

Must have been Friday and it still was so packed in the center aisles I couldn't get over to you.

[october]

4 minutes ago, Foolkiller said:

Sorry I missed you Andy!  In general I agree with your sentiment about big cons, and I don't think there are great deals any more on the cheaper stuff always.  But Tom Nelson was there buying through Friday and scored some very good deals (in some unusual spots).  I found books with Kapelka (although I was early) and a few other dealers.  Kapelka had a nice pre-Robin tec slab and some other high grade cool books.  Had I been more aggressive I would have with Ted as well.  Muchin's inventory was weaker, but I still found a few really nice ones.   I spent over $16k at the show and was pleased with how many decent books I got.  I felt I got some good deals with Leroy and he had some really nice stuff as well, and as guys got stuff back from onsite, you were able to find stuff.  That said, you are correct, and as it always is the case, buying outside of a big con is the way to go.  But I do think you are interested in wider margin wins (like me) and to score that kind of stuff, you can't do it a big show generally.  

Tom was early into a lot of the boxes. After four or five guys through, it gets tough. I bought some stuff from Kapelka, but I missed out on most of it judging by the stacks under the boards. Leroy was not open on Thursday. 

The difference between a great show vs a mediocre show vs a terrible show often comes down to being the first guy at a particular booth through a particular box. 

[october]

Just now, 1Cool said:

Must have been Friday and it still was so packed in the center aisles I couldn't get over to you.

Wasn't there on Friday either.

I am almost always only at cons during setup days. I usually can only manage a day or two at a show, so the earlier the better. 

[1Cool]

Just now, october said:

Wasn't there on Friday either.

I am almost always only at cons during setup days. I usually can only manage a day or two at a show, so the earlier the better. 

Looked just like you!  Glad I didn't get over to say hi to the complete stranger.

[Foolkiller]

7 minutes ago, october said:

Tom was early into a lot of the boxes. After four or five guys through, it gets tough. I bought some stuff from Kapelka, but I missed out on most of it judging by the stacks under the boards. Leroy was not open on Thursday. 

The difference between a great show vs a mediocre show vs a terrible show often comes down to being the first guy at a particular booth through a particular box. 

Yep.  Dave got attacked pretty early.  But I will give Tom credit, that guy is a machine and he really does get to a lot of different booths early and often, but I think he also is good at finding material maybe that's been glazed over.  

[jsilverjanet]

11 hours ago, Junkdrawer said:

I obviously heard of Zombie Tramp, but not so much Doll Face here. Recently done by artist Bill McKay, it's the cover to issue #8 that hasn't even hit the Preview yet.  I got both the regular cover and the variant I guess you call it. He threw in a few signed prints of both versions. She's on the banner of his booth display. He really was diggin' her. Mine now

I've spoken to Bill McKay a few times and he's a real nice guy 

[Junkdrawer]

30 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

I've spoken to Bill McKay a few times and he's a real nice guy 

 

He really wasn't ready to part with this art. He was still liking it. As you can see in the background, she's made it to his display

Edited April 24, 2017 by Junkdrawer

[Transplant]

45 minutes ago, Foolkiller said:

But I will give Tom credit, that guy is a machine and he really does get to a lot of different booths early and often, but I think he also is good at finding material maybe that's been glazed over.  

I'd say that's one part of his skill at finding stuff. 

[jsilverjanet]

To clarify on the "tight" grading comments as I've made them as well

its mainly modern submissions and mainly copper books.  Maybe "tight" is the wrong word to use, inconsistent is probably more accurate. 

I've subbed over 75 books in the past 2 months and I really don't know what to expect. Some grades are a little harder, some a little looser.

 

[october]

19 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

To clarify on the "tight" grading comments as I've made them as well

its mainly modern submissions and mainly copper books.  Maybe "tight" is the wrong word to use, inconsistent is probably more accurate. 

I've subbed over 75 books in the past 2 months and I really don't know what to expect. Some grades are a little harder, some a little looser.

 

I was happy with my modern sub. Felt they were tighter on the vintage stuff I had graded. 

[jsilverjanet]

Like I said, it's a little inconsistent and mainly back in March on subs sent to Sarasota 

because of work I spent my weekend in Michigan but still brought comics

[1Cool]

30 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

To clarify on the "tight" grading comments as I've made them as well

its mainly modern submissions and mainly copper books.  Maybe "tight" is the wrong word to use, inconsistent is probably more accurate. 

I've subbed over 75 books in the past 2 months and I really don't know what to expect. Some grades are a little harder, some a little looser.

 

I heard the work "inconsistent" used several times on Saturday but when I looked at the books they were consistently lower then they had expected.  Can't think of any time the person thought they would get a 9.4 and it came back a 9.6 but there was sure a lot of the other direction.

[BriD.]

13 hours ago, Junkdrawer said:

I've always appreciated Dan Parent and how inexpensive he sells his stuff. Here is a soon to be published cover is Betty and Veronica Digest.

Also a Betty and Veronica colored sketch. 

Dan's stuff is great! I had no interest in Archie until I browsed through his stuff at a con probably six or seven years ago. Now I'm hooked! I have three pieces of his on my wall right now.

[Bomber-Bob]

14 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

I heard the work "inconsistent" used several times on Saturday but when I looked at the books they were consistently lower then they had expected.  Can't think of any time the person thought they would get a 9.4 and it came back a 9.6 but there was sure a lot of the other direction.

Hey, I hope you are right because I like tight grading, especially on the 9.6 vs 9.8 range. During the loose period of 5 ish years I was afraid to buy a book that was not viewed in hand. During that loose period I heard dealers laughing about some of the overgraded books they got back. Tight is better for the overall health of the hobby.