1977 Direct vs. Newsstand

[the blob]

I am a little surprised ebay sellers are not trying to push the relative "scarcity" of many of the 30 cent no month state/Diamond price Marvels from this era (are these direct or whitman?) vs. their month stated/square price newsstand counterparts given how newsstands from the 80s are being pushed by some as purportedly rare, when they often are not.

 

I suppose on problem is that some of these overlap with 35 cent variants, so the concept of multiple "rare" price variants for one issue might be too much.

 

Really seems to depend on the book though, which might be the problem. Tons of Peter Parker 7 out there with the diamond, for example, but looking at some of the others on ebay and the diamond is maybe one in 15, 20 or more copies for sale. 1:10, 1:20 variants get hype, why not these?

 

And no, I don't have a garage full of these. Whatever I have is random among my BA books. I have never hunted these, but I am considering it. I wonder if a place like NYC might have more of these floating around because we had a lot of comic shops earlier than many places I think. In 1977 there were three in my neighborhood, for example.

[the blob]

I am figuring that by 1978/79 it doesn't matter anymore.

[the blob]

And yes, some of the early 1977 (possibly on the rack in 1976?) direct/diamond books are pushed a little, like ASM 165. I have sold those for a little extra (a while back).

 

Of course, I am hesitant to try and market these books by touting "direct edition" because I think some/much of the market does not understand the distinction and are thinking about the "rare newsstand" versions that are being pushed and may assume that a direct from 1977 is more common. Indeed, I see people occasionally listing 1977-79 books as "newsstand" as that should mean something positive/rare (not even sure it means they're harder in high grade at that point either, maybe in the 80s)

[NP_Gresham]

I am a little surprised ebay sellers are not trying to push the relative "scarcity" of many of the 30 cent no month state/Diamond price Marvels from this era (are these direct or whitman?) vs. their month stated/square price newsstand counterparts given how newsstands from the 80s are being pushed by some as purportedly rare, when they often are not.

 

I suppose on problem is that some of these overlap with 35 cent variants, so the concept of multiple "rare" price variants for one issue might be too much.

 

Really seems to depend on the book though, which might be the problem. Tons of Peter Parker 7 out there with the diamond, for example, but looking at some of the others on ebay and the diamond is maybe one in 15, 20 or more copies for sale. 1:10, 1:20 variants get hype, why not these?

 

And no, I don't have a garage full of these. Whatever I have is random among my BA books. I have never hunted these, but I am considering it. I wonder if a place like NYC might have more of these floating around because we had a lot of comic shops earlier than many places I think. In 1977 there were three in my neighborhood, for example.

They are definitely Whitman and most likely reprints. The LCS owner I go to insists the first direct had the slash through the barcode. He says he was in business at that time and knows first hand. My own recollection (I am that old) was the whitman 3 packs came out months after the newsstand issues.

I would like to see a shred of evidence that the early diamond books were anything but Whitman 3 packs.

[jools&jim]

 

Most of you have probably seen this. If not, it's a good place to start...

 

http://www.bipcomics.com/showcase/Direct/index.php

 

 

[the blob]

ok, i see some of them described as whitmans by a few sellers

 

but the ones I am talking about have numbers in the UPC code, not a blank box

 

would there have been a difference? why do some have a blank box (reprints? -- i assume so because the only diamond price/blank box SW 1 I see says "reprint" on it via CGC) and others have a UPC (perhaps more contemporaneous?)

 

I don't remember these as a kid, but the 70s were foggy

 

So when was the first direct market marvel? I don't think the slash through the UPC shows up until 78 or 79.

 

And I know, there was probably a thread about this at some point and i probably asked the same questions.

[the_Greatest]

The first comic month that I bought from a comic shop was January '76 cover date.

Joe Sarno's Nostalgia Shop in Chicago.

It was Spider Man #150, and I hadn't even found #149 at a 7/11 or my previous sources yet.

 

I'm pretty sure the first month I saw a diamond was mid 190s, probably #194.

 

After that it was years before I even realized that all of those issues still had newsstand copies as well.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Most of you have probably seen this. If not, it's a good place to start...

 

http://www.bipcomics.com/showcase/Direct/index.php

 

 

I generally agree with much of what BIP says about this, that Western (Whitman) was the driving force behind this, but as they state, they were certainly not the only Direct distributor in those days. Phil Seuling and his Sea Gate Distributors was one of a handful of Direct market distributors going back to at least 1974.

 

The real problem people have is the decades-long idea that these books were "reprints" because of their close association with Star Wars (which, itself, had Direct market version.)

 

That stigma is going to take time to totally go away.

[RockMyAmadeus]

ok, i see some of them described as whitmans by a few sellers

 

but the ones I am talking about have numbers in the UPC code, not a blank box

 

would there have been a difference? why do some have a blank box (reprints? -- i assume so because the only diamond price/blank box SW 1 I see says "reprint" on it via CGC) and others have a UPC (perhaps more contemporaneous?)

 

I don't remember these as a kid, but the 70s were foggy

 

So when was the first direct market marvel? I don't think the slash through the UPC shows up until 78 or 79.

 

And I know, there was probably a thread about this at some point and i probably asked the same questions.

 

So, this is still unconfirmed by actual sources, but it appears to be the following:

 

The earliest Direct market copies (dated Feb, 1977) had UPC codes in them, the UPC codes having started to appear on Marvels with the June, 1976 cover dated books several months earlier.

 

However...it appears that Whitman, who was by far the biggest consumer of these Direct market books (because they discovered they could get a substantial discount on them, and returns weren't a concern for them), complained that having the UPC on the books meant that a 3-pack, sold for 79 or 89 cents, or whatever price, might accidentally be scanned by this new, unfamiliar technology as a single issue, at the 30 cent, later 35 cent, price.

 

So, to resolve this, Marvel blanked out the UPC box. Problem solved. When Whitman got DC into the act in 1978, they simply printed a flying Superman in the box.

 

As to why the early issues had months on them, and the later ones did not...again, Whitman bought in huge bundles, and didn't want to have the month on the books, so people wouldn't think they were getting "old" books. If they didn't have a month, then buyers in October wouldn't be concerned if they got a comic dated March.

 

That also explains why they don't exist for all months and all titles from Feb 1977 on: Whitman bought in batches, and when they had enough to make their various 3-packs, they stopped ordering for a while.

 

This is all thus far unconfirmed by either Marvel or Whitman, but it certainly makes reasonable sense.

 

The only reprints of any kind during this time period (1977-1979) in comic book form were Star Wars, and those are marked, either on the cover or in the indicia. There weren't any other reprints of comics from this era, because there wasn't any need for them.

 

The slash through the UPC appeared with the June, 1979 Marvels, when the Direct market program went company-wide.

[NP_Gresham]

The first comic month that I bought from a comic shop was January '76 cover date.

Joe Sarno's Nostalgia Shop in Chicago.

It was Spider Man #150, and I hadn't even found #149 at a 7/11 or my previous sources yet.

 

I'm pretty sure the first month I saw a diamond was mid 190s, probably #194.

 

After that it was years before I even realized that all of those issues still had newsstand copies as well.

Which confirms the timeline stated by the LCS owner.

Using the ASM timeline:

LCS in business prior to the diamond price box sold the same copies as the newsstand.

The reprint whitman 3 packs containing ASM 165-up came out well after the newsstand release and were never distributed by the LCS of the time.

The "direct" version with the slash barcode began in the LCS around ASM #194.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Cover Browser shows an interesting X-Men #122:

 

 

 

I wonder if such a copy actually exists?

[RockMyAmadeus]

The first comic month that I bought from a comic shop was January '76 cover date.

Joe Sarno's Nostalgia Shop in Chicago.

It was Spider Man #150, and I hadn't even found #149 at a 7/11 or my previous sources yet.

 

I'm pretty sure the first month I saw a diamond was mid 190s, probably #194.

 

After that it was years before I even realized that all of those issues still had newsstand copies as well.

Which confirms the timeline stated by the LCS owner.

Using the ASM timeline:

LCS in business prior to the diamond price box sold the same copies as the newsstand.

The reprint whitman 3 packs containing ASM 165-up came out well after the newsstand release and were never distributed by the LCS of the time.

The "direct" version with the slash barcode began in the LCS around ASM #194.

 

This is not accurate.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I am a little surprised ebay sellers are not trying to push the relative "scarcity" of many of the 30 cent no month state/Diamond price Marvels from this era (are these direct or whitman?) vs. their month stated/square price newsstand counterparts given how newsstands from the 80s are being pushed by some as purportedly rare, when they often are not.

 

I suppose on problem is that some of these overlap with 35 cent variants, so the concept of multiple "rare" price variants for one issue might be too much.

 

Really seems to depend on the book though, which might be the problem. Tons of Peter Parker 7 out there with the diamond, for example, but looking at some of the others on ebay and the diamond is maybe one in 15, 20 or more copies for sale. 1:10, 1:20 variants get hype, why not these?

 

And no, I don't have a garage full of these. Whatever I have is random among my BA books. I have never hunted these, but I am considering it. I wonder if a place like NYC might have more of these floating around because we had a lot of comic shops earlier than many places I think. In 1977 there were three in my neighborhood, for example.

They are definitely Whitman and most likely reprints. The LCS owner I go to insists the first direct had the slash through the barcode. He says he was in business at that time and knows first hand. My own recollection (I am that old) was the whitman 3 packs came out months after the newsstand issues.

I would like to see a shred of evidence that the early diamond books were anything but Whitman 3 packs.

 

This is not accurate.

[NP_Gresham]

And yes, some of the early 1977 (possibly on the rack in 1976?) direct/diamond books are pushed a little, like ASM 165. I have sold those for a little extra (a while back).

 

Of course, I am hesitant to try and market these books by touting "direct edition" because I think some/much of the market does not understand the distinction and are thinking about the "rare newsstand" versions that are being pushed and may assume that a direct from 1977 is more common. Indeed, I see people occasionally listing 1977-79 books as "newsstand" as that should mean something positive/rare (not even sure it means they're harder in high grade at that point either, maybe in the 80s)

ASM works to set the timeline

The whitman reprints (direct if you will) were exclusively for whitman and distributed in 3 packs, again firsthand evidence they were distributed through K-Mart for one.

LCS had only newsstand even after Whitman was distributing their diamond box reprints.

Eventually as stated by the LCS and others recollection, direct versions were made available for LCS, these were denoted by the slash through the UPC box with the earliest versions.

I definitely bought the regular newsstand issues at one of the East coasts earliest LCS the 'Million Year Picnic' well into the Whitman reprint era.

I await like others any refuting evidence to the direct recollection of those who actually bought and sold during this era.

To date there is none, so this is the logical timeline.

[the blob]

Most of you have probably seen this. If not, it's a good place to start...

 

http://www.bipcomics.com/showcase/Direct/index.php

 

 

thank you. assuming that is accurate it is a fine resource.

[NP_Gresham]

Most of you have probably seen this. If not, it's a good place to start...

 

http://www.bipcomics.com/showcase/Direct/index.php

 

 

thank you. assuming that is accurate it is a fine resource.

It was helpful and offers this nugget

 

there is anecdotal evidence that indicates they were not the only distributor.

 

Again to confirm, nothing of substance to refute the timeline stated later in the article

 

Starting with comics cover dated June 1979, Marvel began sending diamond cover issues to subscribers and comic shops

[the blob]

You are calling them reprints but there is nothing i have read here indicating they were any more reprints than pence editions or 35 cent versions or whatever done at the end (or beginning) of the batch and nothing to indicate they were printed weeks, months, whatever later, just that they might have been distributed later.

 

I didn't work at the printers or at Marvel, I'm not saying I know for sure. But from what I've read here it sounds like they were simply a different cover version of the issue printed contemporaneously.

 

So, "direct" is not accurate as really these were going to 7-11 or whatever on a non-returnable basis, not comic shops in 1977.

 

So, actually, maybe they are harder to find around me because with so many newsstands and comic shops in NYC in 1977, places like 7-11 may not have bothered selling comics.

[RockMyAmadeus]

There is much inaccuracy being posted here.

 

Direct distribution...entirely independent of Western/Whitman...began as early as 1974, if not earlier.

 

As noted, there is not a shred of evidence that suggests these "fat diamond" books were reprints. Marvel had never reprinted regular books before in the same format (aside from Marvel Comics #1), and wouldn't until Star Wars. Those books are CLEARLY marked "reprint", either in the indicia or on the cover.

 

(For total accuracy, it's certainly possible that Timely, like DC, DID reprint certain issues, like Marvel Comics #1 and Superman #1, but it certainly wouldn't have been a practice much after 1941-45-ish.)

 

Not a single copy of any other title has been marked "reprint."

 

Direct distribution took some time to catch on. But Marvel did not go company-wide with the Direct program in June 1979 cover date (about March of '79) out of nowhere. They had been selling to Direct distributors for several years.

 

They WERE going to comic shops in 1977....but in 1977, there weren't that many comic shops. And the Whitman 3-packs may have been going to 7-11...though that would not have made too much sense...but the point was that they were going to WHITMAN, the Direct distributor, FIRST.

[RockMyAmadeus]

And, of course, it is easy to see how the "reprint" mythology came about and took hold....it's still being repeated today.

[NP_Gresham]

You are calling them reprints but there is nothing i have read here indicating they were any more reprints than pence editions or 35 cent versions or whatever done at the end (or beginning) of the batch and nothing to indicate they were printed weeks, months, whatever later, just that they might have been distributed later.

 

I didn't work at the printers or at Marvel, I'm not saying I know for sure. But from what I've read here it sounds like they were simply a different cover version of the issue printed contemporaneously.

 

So, "direct" is not accurate as really these were going to 7-11 or whatever on a non-returnable basis, not comic shops in 1977.

 

So, actually, maybe they are harder to find around me because with so many newsstands and comic shops in NYC in 1977, places like 7-11 may not have bothered selling comics.

The "reprint" story is not exclusive to the Whitman 3 packs. The same story was shared about the 30 cent variants and later the 35 cent variants. Ultimately Marvel released information to prove that they were not reprints.

Hopefully the same happens here. Until then, there are numerous buyers and sellers from that time with stories to support both versions.

The issue remains undecided.