FFB Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 No, I was not referring to the picture of the staples. DiceX copied a post of mine into this thread from last year where I said about 90% of this, so THANKS FOR WASTING EVERYONE'S TIME. It didn't waste my time. I found it informative. I know. I was just kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFB Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 90%?, really. Bills25 asked about how to detect cleaned staples so I tried to tailor my response around that. And why are you yelling? BECAUSE IT IS FUN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiceX Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 And why are you yelling? Because he's a lawyer, and that's the only way anyone will listen to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze-man Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 And why are you yelling? Because he's a lawyer, and that's the only way anyone will listen to them. Thats it!! And I knew Scott was kidding, perhaps we should dial back the sarcasm and stick to the resto tech talk. Sounds like a good idea for a radio show, Resto Talk with Click and Clack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillS25 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Thank you very much Ze-man for the information. It's greatly appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze-man Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Here's a little diagram I put together to show you how to tell if a book has been disassembled. This is a pretty extreme example and if a book is disassembled by a skilled professional it will not usually look like this. Still, this should give you an idea of what to look for. I was working on a book today that had tape applied to the interior spine. To apply this tape somebody obviously had to remove and replace the staples, I immediately thought of Scott's post above because the staples looked so similar. One can never see too many examples so I took some shots before I took them out. Most of the damage to the staples was done when they were reinserted and they tried to mash them to make them lay flat. You can see typical scrapes and indentation marks made by whatever tool they used, most likely pliers of some sort because one of the prongs is even bent which led it to poke a hole in the paper next to it. Similar to Scott's example, this one is extreme and amateurish but can serve as another example of what to look for when trying to determine if the staples were removed/replaced. Factory set staples might have the tines set at different angles, but they almost always are lined up correctly at the start of the bend. While the paper around the staple might show wear from years of use..it will only be torn like in these photos when somebody unbends a staple too far when removing them. And typically a re inserted staple will show a slight curve to the tine if improper pressure is applied when trying to make them lay flat after re inserting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze-man Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Hey again, is anybody there? Was working on a book this weekend that serves as a good example that not all restored books will look restored. Or rather a tattered beat up comic that looks like dog meat can still come back with a purple label from CGC if you don't know what to look for. In this case somebody cut small strips of an archival type tape and sealed dozens of tears on the inside cover. At a glance you might not see them unless you know what to look for. So for those that already know this well never mind, and for those that don't here ya go. Before and after shots of the taped areas. One in normal viewing light, and the other taken in a raking light that allows you to easily see the tape. So hold those books at an angle under light to better spot tear seals, and or CT. And a shot of a huge tear sealed up with multiple pieces of tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comicdey Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Always interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topnotchman Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I'm prepping myself for San Diego next month. I'm going to be looking at alot of early Bronze and Silver. Is there any battery operated hand held light I can keep in my bag that could help me spot color touch. Looking at a books with poor convention lighting for me is a little spooky on a valuable book. I was thinking of just waving a light wand over the book to see if any color touch would jump out. Any help is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFB Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I'm prepping myself for San Diego next month. I'm going to be looking at alot of early Bronze and Silver. Is there any battery operated hand held light I can keep in my bag that could help me spot color touch. Looking at a books with poor convention lighting for me is a little spooky on a valuable book. I was thinking of just waving a light wand over the book to see if any color touch would jump out. Any help is appreciated. A black light isn't going to be much help to you there. If anything, you're likely to get a false sense of security when using it because the color touch isn't going to jump out at you under those circumstances. Just look for bends, scuffs, and creases that should break color but don't, and for bleed-through on the inside covers, especially around the perimeter and spine. WolverineX 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I'm prepping myself for San Diego next month. I'm going to be looking at alot of early Bronze and Silver. Is there any battery operated hand held light I can keep in my bag that could help me spot color touch. Looking at a books with poor convention lighting for me is a little spooky on a valuable book. I was thinking of just waving a light wand over the book to see if any color touch would jump out. Any help is appreciated. A black light isn't going to be much help to you there. If anything, you're likely to get a false sense of security when using it because the color touch isn't going to jump out at you under those circumstances. Just look for bends, scuffs, and creases that should break color but don't, and for bleed-through on the inside covers, especially around the perimeter and spine. I wouldn't buy a black cover at a convention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze-man Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'm prepping myself for San Diego next month. I'm going to be looking at alot of early Bronze and Silver. Is there any battery operated hand held light I can keep in my bag that could help me spot color touch. Looking at a books with poor convention lighting for me is a little spooky on a valuable book. I was thinking of just waving a light wand over the book to see if any color touch would jump out. Any help is appreciated. Even in poor lighting you should be able to spot even minor CT. Most of the CT you would expect to see in this era of books is Black, along the spine line and or around word balloons etc. As Scott said look for creases that break color on either side of a black line and odds are it was hit with a pen/marker. Bleed through from being applied too heavily is obviously easy to spot. Holding the book at an angle to allow you to see the cover gloss is the easiest way to spot CT, even minor does not normally have any gloss. Also buy a small magnifying glass or loupe, so when you find an area you think might have been hit you can look more closely. Black light type detection is not really useful because if the CT is heavy enough for a black light to show it, it is easy enough to spot with your naked eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctobre-migration Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 hey everybody, this is my first post on the collector's society. i wanted to commend everybody on this terrific thread so much that i decided to become a member! many, many collectors will be reviewing this info with a fine tooth comb for many months and years to come! on behalf of all, thanks so much for your outstanding help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryptoSpidey Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss5rmp Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 wow! so much info. as a flash sa collector that gets the majority of his books from ebay, i cant thank everyone enough for providing so much info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassemble Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 I'm in a panic. My CGC order is still in Verified but now I see that my Avengers #1 has a "TRIMMED" in the pedigree area and "Apparent SA" in another. I'm not an expert but would that mean its trimmed and what does "SA" mean? I was hoping for a 7.0 or better, now my $400 investment in 1990 looks to be going down the tubes. Any imput would be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFB Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 I'm in a panic. My CGC order is still in Verified but now I see that my Avengers #1 has a "TRIMMED" in the pedigree area and "Apparent SA" in another. I'm not an expert but would that mean its trimmed and what does "SA" mean? I was hoping for a 7.0 or better, now my $400 investment in 1990 looks to be going down the tubes. Any imput would be welcome. Sounds like it is trimmed and color touched with amateur color touch. What grade was it? And where did you get the book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 SA = Slight Amateur Trimming alone shouldn't get A or P as there is no Pro trimming so I suspect you got some color touch on it too. Still a 7.0 Avnegers with SA PLOD will get you more than double back. Sell now while it's hot if you can't stand looking at that purple label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aces Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 And where did you get the book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassemble Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 I bought it at a show in 1990 in central New Jersey. I really don't remember who I bought it from. It really is a nice copy. I don't know what the grade is but I was hoping for at least a 6 and probably a 7. I'm not particularly adept at finding trimming. I probably opened the book up maybe two or three times since I bought it, so I don't know about the coloring. It kind of puts a damper on it. However, I do have Avengers #3 and #6 in the order that comes from the same batch as my 9.4 #4, so it shouldn't be a total loss. Thanks for your info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
