How to spot restoration....?
25 25

303 posts in this topic

41,716 posts

The reason Meth is being held responsible for the restoration on the comics he sells is because people think he's the one restoring them, which makes the point about his detecting it moot. However, no direct evidence of this behavior has yet been publicly presented, nor has any direct evidence of the link between Meth and Daniel Dupcak, a well-known restorer of comics and convicted felon, yet been publicly presented.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,682 posts

Okay, FF, I get it. But so far I've only seen one person mention that he got a restored book, and his money was refunded. Another person said his book wasn't restored. The primary proof of guilt (according to many) appears to be an unwillingness to slab.

 

Here's a question for Meth that I'm curious about: why don't you slab? Is it the money, the time, a matter of principle (you don't like their business practices, don't trust their grading, etc.) or some other reason?

 

There is a company I don't like -- shady business practices, userous prices, treated their customers like dirt. But they were the only game in town in this particular area. A few years ago, I decided to stop giving them another dime. My friends continued to complain loudly about how bad this company was, but also continued to spend freely. The more they spent, the more they complained, but why should the company care as it was raking in the cash? Then I started to be criticized. I was seen as "holier than thou" because I refused to do business with them. No one liked seeing someone willing to do without all the neat stuff because of a principle. Every time I defended myself, my reasons -- my personal reasons made by me for me alone -- were seen as a condemnation of others. It's an endless cycle.

 

So there can be legitimate reasons for refusing to indulge in the services of a business that has a lock on a market. Meth would make a lot more money by slabbing. But he doesn't do it. That's why I want to ask him why. Restoration is one reason, but it's not the only reason.

 

-- Joanna

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26,836 posts

Basically Dry Cleaning is using an eraser type material to remove things like light soiling, pencil etc. The best way to accomplish dry cleaning is to pick up a template at an art supply store. This template is a thin piece of aluminum with various shapes cut into it. Long thin rectangles, cirlces, etc. Costs a buck or two. Then get a white eraser like a Mars white plastic or similar. You can slice these to very fine thicknesses for use. (see below)

 

First off you do not wnat to use an eraser to just earse an entire cover. You WILl remove ink. The template with the shapes cut out are ideal for cleaning up the white etxt on a cover. Simply align a properly proportioned cut-out from your aluminum template on top of the white lettering. Slice off a price or eraser to fit. Erase. Make sure the edge of the template does not go over an inked area. You may have to slide it along the lettering to get it all. And this can be a very laborious process.

 

Also, you ca get a "cleaning pad" - which contains basically very finely granulated white eraser substance in a small "pillow" shaped pad about 3 x 5 inches. You raise the pad above the cover and gently squeeze some of the granules onto the cover. Then very gently move the pad in a circular motion, often stopping and lifting to see if ink is being lifted.

 

these techniques can remove general dirt from the white areas. The cover is definetly "picked up" because the whites "pop" more than they did, creating added contrast.

 

You can usually tell this from a slight "smoothing" of the paper. If you are not sure what that means buy a very low grade book from the same poeriod and preferably publisher and erase as above. You will soon get a feel for what it looks like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41,716 posts

What kind of black light do you use?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26,836 posts

What kind of black light do you use?

 

Its an 18" 15 watt longwave single tube fixture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41,716 posts

Do you know whether shortwave is at all useful to detect some types of restoration? I've seen some ultraviolet lamps that have an adjustment to switch back and forth between longwave and shortwave. I'm aware that shortwave can be dangerous, but as long as you don't stick your arm under it, you should be fine.

 

Look at the following picture taken from a CGC advertisement:

 

CGC black light.jpg

 

There appears to be a little slider on the top of the light. My best guess is that the slider adjusts the wavelength of the light. How much it adjusts, I dunno. I'm also assuming that the little viewing panel on the top contains a magnifier. Wonder where you get a light like the one above?

 

Another question--what do you use for magnification? Ever considered a stereoscope?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
0 posts
Guest

UV Light:

 

ShortWave, Length = 180 to 280 nm : UV-C has germicidal power. Eye and skin protection is required.

MediumWave, Length = 280 to 320 nm : UV-B is characterized by the ability to cause sunburn. Some skin and eye protection is advisable.

LongWave , Length = 320 to 380 nm : UV-A waves are commonly called BlackLight or Wood'sLight. Long waves can pigment the skin but do not cause sunburn. Eye protection is not required but recommended.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41,716 posts

Think that slider is to vary the wavelength between longwave and shortwave? I've heard stamp collectors say that shortwave helps to detect certain types of work, but I've never heard a comic person say that.

 

I'm thinking about getting one of those lamps that lets you adjust the wavelength, but since they're $150+, I figured I'd see if anybody else knows the best type of light to get instead of wasting dough researching a light that I may end up wanting to replace later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
0 posts
Guest

Jamie, I don't know if you can do that with a specific UV light source. I've never seen it, and so many things come out that you're not aware of, that it's difficult keeping up with new products hitting the marketplaces. I would imagine that if a device to vary the actual wavelength of the light source (the elements present in the bulb) was designed and available for either commercial or home use, it would go for FAR in excess of $150.00. I don't think that slider has anything to do with changing the nHz of the source, I feel that it may be an aperature setting to concentrate or widen the beam or a rheostat like fader to increase or decrease intensity.

The SSR or spectral sensitivity range of a BLACK UV light (which is actually an indigo spectrum effect..dark purple) is 315 to 400 nm. Frequencies under 315 nm would NOT fluoresce the colors on the cover of a comic in the same manner that a BLACK light does. I don't think there's an adjustment that can be made on the unit like the one pictured above, to the substances themselves, whatever the internal 3000 or so natural and man made substances was picked for that particular bulb, that can transform invisible radiated UV energy into longer, visible wavelengths that appear in a variety of colors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41,716 posts

Yea, you're right, the cheapest lamp I've seen so far with an adjustable wavelength setting was around $400. I'm hoping I'll eventually either find a cheaper one or get a better answer to the question as to whether shortwave can be useful with comics.

 

Here's a web site with a wide array of ultraviolet lights: http://www.uvp.com/html/handlamp.html#ELSeries . They've got a very interesting cabinet in another page on that site that their lamps can snap into, which would allow for a dark environment in a lighted room, such as a hotel comic book convention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26,836 posts

Do you know whether shortwave is at all useful to detect some types of restoration?

 

I don't know. I have always avoided shortwave due to the potential dangers. As far as magnification, I have a few different ground glass mahnifiers and loupes that range from 3x to 30x. I have considered a stereoscope and have used them in other circumstances (I once photographed a slide set for Harvard's Museum of Invertebrate Paleontology and got to play with some mighty nice stereoscopes. But I think for the purpose of detecting a good quality loupe is as fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,008 posts

Thanks for all the fantastic information about restoration. I have been using a black light but was totally unaware of how to spot cleaning other than the funky smell some improperly cleaned books would have. Now I get to check all my stuff armed with this great info. Keep it these great posts coming!!! Chet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26,836 posts

Cover Only Trim

You need magnification and good lighting at different angles to detect a cover edge trim. You want to examine the color of the exposed edge and compare it to that of the other edges. You want to examine the cut itself, determine the angle of the cut and if there are angle fluctuations (here I am talking about the edge of the comic itself - so I am talking minute fluctuations over a paper-thin edge. NOT the wangle at which the entire cover was cut.) Check for signs of the type of cutter used: guillotine, paper cutter, razor and straightedge. A guillotine cutter gives the best edge of the three, very straight and true. If the edge is getting worn - well - you know about Marvel Chipping. A regular paper cutter may show dimpling or waviness along the cut, especially if the paper was not held down really hard and flat and the blade was not tightly pressed into the edge. A razor/straighedge can make for very irregular angles on the edge itself due to the razot being held in the hand and the angle of the hand changing. However, a razor in a holder, like a matte cutter, can make for very clean and even cuts. Examine the ink at the very edge and see how the dots are broken. Are they cleanly sliced or is there a bif or pulling or scraping? Then compare to the other edges. If all the edges look the same check for signs of the cover being removed, concentrating on the staples and the staple holes and impressions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,829 posts

You ought to seriously consider purchasing one

 

This detector has helped much in detecting colour touch (CT) in my experiences.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26,836 posts

This is just a bump.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26,836 posts

*bump*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
93 posts

Greetings

 

I've finally decided that it's time to post to these forums (long overdue some might add). In regards to FF's question about shortwave UV light for detection of restoration, here is an explanation of how UV radiation works from UVP's catalog:

 

"An interesting characteristic of UV radiation occurs when it falls upon certain substances known as phosphors, wehre it causes the phosphors to emit specific radiation. This phenomenon is known as fluorescence. "

 

"One effect of UV energy upon certain substances is a phenomenon that takes place at the atomic level. High frequency UV protons collide with atoms and part of the photon's energy is transferred to the atoms by boosting electrons to the high energy states. Upon de-excitation, as electrons fall back to lower energy states, energy is released as photons of light. Since only a portion of the incoming photon's energy was transferred to an electron, these emitted photon's have less energy than the incoming UV photons so their wavelengths are longer than the excitation photons. This process is called fluorescence."

 

I would think that shortwave would work just as well at detection of restored areas as longwave, but due to the extreme health hazard shortwave poses (we are talking waves in the vicinity of x-rays!!!) the gains wouldn't outweigh the health concerns.

 

Tracey Heft

Eclipse Paper Conservation

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41,716 posts

Welcome!!! Glad to see you finally joined us.

 

The main reason I've been wondering whether shortwave would be useful is because stamp collectors use it. When I went looking for a UV lamp in my area, the first place that I found who carried it was a stamp store, and I had a long conversation with the owner. He demonstrated for me a stamp he looked at under a shortwave light and a longwave light to demonstrate how certain types of materials would fluoresce under shortwave but not under longwave.

 

What type of material was he looking at? I don't know. Would shortwave be at all useful with comics, or is there something particular to stamps that would only make it useful there? I don't know, but I do know that in general, hardcore stamp collectors use more science in their hobby than comic collectors do. The very fact that I was able to buy any kind of UV lamp at all at a store a half-mile from my house when almost none of the dozens of comic shops in my state carry them tells me volumes about the state of stamp collecting versus comic collecting. I guess the general idea is that stamps have been worth big money and been susceptible to fraud 50 to 100 years earlier than comics have, which explains why their hobby has developed better scientific techniques to detect fraud.

 

So I have to wonder whether shortwave could be useful. Is it harmful if you stay on the opposite side of the light and keep your body parts out of the rays? That, I don't know either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16,446 posts

"I guess the general idea is that stamps have been worth big money and been susceptible to fraud 50 to 100 years earlier than comics have, which explains why their hobby has developed better scientific techniques to detect fraud."

 

Maybe it's also illegal to "alter" or counterfeit stamps because they are basically a form of US currency? I don't know, but I would assume so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,434 posts

Would shortwave be at all useful with comics, or is there something particular to stamps that would only make it useful there?

 

Sometimes stams are printed on a fluorescent paper. (I guess it's safe measure against counterfeiting, just like in paper money)

As far as I know stamp collectors use UV-lamps mainly for identifying different paper types not necessarily for restoration detection.

 

Maybe different wavelenght lamps are needed for identifying print runs etc.

 

(here's link to some UV-lamps for stamp collectors, I think it supports my theory)

 

Is it harmful if you stay on the opposite side of the light and keep your body parts out of the rays? That, I don't know either.

 

Maybe we should buy these ? UV-safetywear

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
25 25