Capullo selling his Batman artwork online 1 1

[Nexus]

2 hours ago, delekkerste said:

So, I saw a recent Capullo Tweet that stated that he sold the Batman #1 (Court of Owls/reboot) cover for the full $50K asking price (IIRC, it was implied as opposed to the number actually stated), and that he was torn up parting with it.  I haven't looked since, but I heard he took the Tweet down (not sure if there was more than one, but I only saw one), perhaps because I heard that, from the metadata embedded in the Tweet, you could identify the buyer (not that anyone paying attention would come up with a shortlist of more than 1 person  ).  

Any thoughts on the sale and the potential impact on other Modern covers?  I'm hearing that other artists are already jacking up prices as a result of Capullo Tweeting about his sale.  

There was a followup tweet with a pic of Capullo and the buyer. Word had gotten around SDCC in July that the cover had sold (pending time payments?). I think anyone who follows the modern Batman art scene could have guessed the buyer then. Appears exchange took place at Fan Expo Toronto a couple of weeks ago.

And yes, just as huckster sellers will try to peg the value of their '80s art to the $448K DKR splash, so are some modern Batman artists to this outlier sale. Their right to ask whatever they want. Hopefully potential buyers remember that outliers make for dubious comps.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Nexus

[Nexus]

14 minutes ago, NinjaSealed said:

I'm sure many artists/reps will use that sale and some of the Capullo prices to justify higher asking prices, but the sale has no actual impact IMO to their prices. There will just be more overpriced pieces within still wet collecting more dust than now. 

Yup. It shouldn't mean anything to other Capullo art, other Batman art, other modern art. It's a one-off.

Again, I don't blame other artists for trying to hit the jackpot like Capullo now. Why not? Capullo held firm and found his buyer. It took years, but he got his price. For the sake of modern Batman collectors, though, I hope no one else is successful. That's the only way for the market to normalize sooner rather than later.

[batman_fan]

2 hours ago, kav said:

Never heard of him-what is he some kinda artist or something?

I am actually not a big fan of his work, especially at the high prices. 

[JadeGiant]

Yeah, there aren't any surprises on this purchase. 

 

I just don't get Capullo getting his price(s) but I guess it comes down to buying what you love and want to own and not buying as investment. 

[BCarter27]

I'd be curious to know how much the "Batman #1" novelty played into the buyer's decision vs loving the piece/artist/storyline/issue. Or maybe at that price, every box has to be checked.

[ESeffinga]

A headscratcher for me too, but then, hey... sometimes the heart wants what the heart wants.
So long as the buyer is truly happy with it after it's all said and done, then the rest is just air.

[rocket1312]

Here's the cover in question.

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by rocket1312

[PhilipB2k17]

1 minute ago, rocket1312 said:

Here's the cover in question.

 

That's a terrific cover. 

All it takes is for a few collectors to pay the asking price for a few of these pieces to get the dam to break. 

Its highly desirable material, in relatively short supply. 

Once the market is set, its set. 

 

[comix4fun]

52 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

That's a terrific cover. 

All it takes is for a few collectors to pay the asking price for a few of these pieces to get the dam to break. 

Its highly desirable material, in relatively short supply. 

Once the market is set, its set. 

 

There's dying to take a sip and then there's drinking from a fire hose.  

[vodou]

52 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

That's a terrific cover. 

All it takes is for a few collectors to pay the asking price for a few of these pieces to get the dam to break. 

Its highly desirable material, in relatively short supply. 

Once the market is set, its set. 

 

You're the only one, so far, thinking this. So unless you + some mystery friends each have $50k burnin' a hole (that nothing else on the market for same/less money would satisfy)...

The rest ('terrific' 'highly desirable') is subjective and there is no shortage of supply, just a bottleneck to a huge supply. 10x FMV as new market fmv would bring out so much material your head would spin

[SquareChaos]

7 hours ago, BCarter27 said:

I'd be curious to know how much the "Batman #1" novelty played into the buyer's decision vs loving the piece/artist/storyline/issue. Or maybe at that price, every box has to be checked.

It is at least fair to say that the Snyder / Capullo run is unlikely to be forgotten anytime soon. I can't imagine the "Batman #1" had anything to do with it... wait a few years and another will come along.

[stinkininkin]

For what it's worth, this Batman run of Capullo and Snyder has been HUGELY successful, both commercially and artistically, not to mention long and substantial by modern standards (50 plus issues).  The fact that it's Batman, and the first issue?  I sort of get it.  I generally don't collect modern art myself, so the price seems pretty abstract to me because of the vintage art that I could get at this sale price.  But still, I sort of get it. 

Having said that, Capullo did not hide the fact that someone was going to have to overpay to pry it loose.  Seems like this deal was done and everyones eyes were wide open.  Not a sucker buy, but not really an indicator of a wider market trend either.  A one off.  Should not be used as a comp.

 Just my 

Scott

[PhilipB2k17]

Not knowing who bought that cover (The hints being dropped mean nothing to me), doesn't the market for Capullo's art suggest that the theory modern art won't get to the heights of the classic stuff - in the longer run - might be wrong? 

Food for thought. 

[comix4fun]

6 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Not knowing who bought that cover (The hints being dropped mean nothing to me), doesn't the market for Capullo's art suggest that the theory modern art won't get to the heights of the classic stuff - in the longer run - might be wrong? 

Food for thought. 

 

Isn't this the definition of a "short run" data point? It's hard to extrapolate a one-off transaction where one buyer met one seller's admittedly extreme demands and slot that into a market stream or prediction of future performance.

Basically, what I am saying is, is that this single sale is not the same as an organically escalated or matured market that started, for example, at $1,000 per piece and through trading  and selling eventually reached $50,000. 

The hypothesis that modern art may reach the same market healthy and heights of other eras of comic art may turn out to be true. However, I don't know if this single sale is an indicator of that or something that turns the hypothesis to proven theory. 

At this point all this sale tells us is that this buyer met this seller's demands for this piece. There's nothing in this transaction that helps us to predict where the next piece will sell at auction or in an open market setting because the sample size is so small and so specific. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by comix4fun

[Twanj]

Ok, so if someone will buy Batman #1 by Capullo for 50k, what would Batman #2 go for? 10k? 25k???

[malvin]

16 minutes ago, Twanj said:

Ok, so if someone will buy Batman #1 by Capullo for 50k, what would Batman #2 go for? 10k? 25k???

I thought everyone was saying it was an outlier and can't be used as a comp

no one knows!

[Bronty]

21 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

 

Isn't this the definition of a "short run" data point? It's hard to extrapolate a one-off transaction where one buyer met one seller's admittedly extreme demands and slot that into a market stream or prediction of future performance.

Basically, what I am saying is, is that this single sale is not the same as an organically escalated or matured market that started, for example, at $1,000 per piece and through trading  and selling eventually reached $50,000. 

The hypothesis that modern art may reach the same market healthy and heights of other eras of comic art may turn out to be true. However, I don't know if this single sale is an indicator of that or something that turns the hypothesis to proven theory. 

At this point all this sale tells us is that this buyer met this seller's demands for this piece. There's nothing in this transaction that helps us to predict where the next piece will sell at auction or in an open market setting because the sample size is so small and so specific. 

If it was any kind of actual indicator or significant comp, we would have to be very concerned about the sustainability of the market

[PhilipB2k17]

44 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

 

Isn't this the definition of a "short run" data point? It's hard to extrapolate a one-off transaction where one buyer met one seller's admittedly extreme demands and slot that into a market stream or prediction of future performance.

Basically, what I am saying is, is that this single sale is not the same as an organically escalated or matured market that started, for example, at $1,000 per piece and through trading  and selling eventually reached $50,000. 

The hypothesis that modern art may reach the same market healthy and heights of other eras of comic art may turn out to be true. However, I don't know if this single sale is an indicator of that or something that turns the hypothesis to proven theory. 

At this point all this sale tells us is that this buyer met this seller's demands for this piece. There's nothing in this transaction that helps us to predict where the next piece will sell at auction or in an open market setting because the sample size is so small and so specific. 

I'm not basing it on the singular sale of the Batman #1 cover. I'm talking about the higher price point being realized for Capullo's art generally. The beginning of this thread last year was highly skeptical of his pricing. It seems that he's been able to sell some at the higher price point, and even the cover....he got his asking price.

This suggests to me that the whole theory that as the Boomers and Gen X collectors fade from the scene, OA values will start levelling off or crater, may not be accurate. What we may see is a shift away from the nostalgic high points in OA for Boomers and Gen X to more modern "classics," as the Millennials age into financial maturity.

This is a very small hobby. It doesn't take a whole lot of collectors with deep pockets to drive the market. Just enough to create a feeding frenzy, or to set the market.

What may be happening is the Dark Knight effect, in that people saw how the DKR pages went into the stratosphere in the hobby, and may be buying Capullo Batman pages now, with the expectation they will hit DKR levels in 20 years. Who knows? Maybe they're right?

I tend to think the B and below Silber and bronze age stuff will start seeing absolute value declines as those collections get dumped onto the market, and the younger collectors are unwilling to absorb that inventory at such high price points. The A stuff will likely always retain value. But, what constitutes "A" material will also change over time!

Edited September 18, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[comix4fun]

3 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I'm not basing it on the singular sale of the Batman #1 cover. I'm talking about the higher price point being realized for Capullo's art generally. The beginning of this thread last year was highly skeptical of his pricing. It seems that he's been able to sell some at the higher price point, and even the cover....he got his asking price.

This suggests to me that the whole theory that as the Boomers and Gen X collectors fade from the scene, OA values will start levelling off or crater, may not be accurate. What we may see is a sift away from the nostalgic high points in OA for Boomers and Gen X to more modern "classics," as the Millennials age into financial maturity.

This is a very small hobby. It doesn't take a whole lot of collectors with deep pockets to drive the market. Just enough to create a feeding frenzy, or to set the market.

What may be happening is the Dark Knight effect, in that people saw how the DKR pages went into the stratosphere in the hobby, and may be buying Capullo Batman pages now, with the expectation they will hit DKR levels in 20 years. Who knows? Maybe they're right?

It's not the first sale, from the artist and at these higher than expected price points, that we should be looking to if we want to see how the "market" values and absorbs these pieces into a stream of commerce like other pieces with multiple sales and data points through public and private sales and auctions. It's the subsequent movement of these pieces which will tell you if the market as it may be perceived due to a few eye opening sale numbers today is real or illusory. 

Anything is possible, sure, but looking to any of a handful of one to one sales, perhaps to a small pool, is far less helpful in determining broader market value and acceptance of those values the way that public secondary or tertiary movement in a sale or auction setting will. 

It's the difference between the price that ONE person is willing to pay and the price that MANY people are willing to pay, or at least come close to. The first and second under-bidder theory is what I call it. Sure there's one buyer at $50k. Does that mean there's another buyer at $49k, or three or four buyers at $40-45k? We don't know that yet because Capullo was firm and only one buyer met his number. 

[rocket1312]

In this case I think there was literally only one person who was willing and able to pay even close to the asking price for this cover.  Capullo seemingly priced it as high as he did because he DID NOT want to sell it.  The buyer more or less called his bluff and even then (if it's who we think it is), was turned away multiple times before apparently breaking through.