MOST VALUABLE MODERN VARIANTS - THE RANKINGS 17 17

[Jaydogrules]

Back on topic...

This appears to be a new high for a Bats 608RRP in a 9.2 :

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Batman-608-CGC-9-2-Rare-RRP-Retailer-Incentive-Edition-Incredible-High-Grade/202802749314?hash=item2f37fc5f82:g:aAAAAOSwWXddaYCg

-J.

[Prince Namor]

28 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Hachette is a Diamond reseller. 

Thanks for confirming that.  
 

Hachette buys directly from Marvel, NOT Diamond. Your reading comprehension is horrible. 

28 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Diamond has an exclusive brokerage agreement with the publishers, thanks for confirming that too. 

So tell me again exactly where I'm "wrong" this time ?
 

Marvel has an exclusive deal with both Hatchette and Disney outside of Diamonds little Direct Market. 
 

That’s how you’re wrong. 

28 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Oh wait, you can't because you just begrudgingly agreed with me (though only after I called you out AGAIN for posting partial and misleading information).

The 3% number is real and has been echoed by other Diamond account holder not named you, as well as now TWO Diamond reps. This info isn't secret, you too can call them up and ask as well (oh but wait, they will just lie to you as well because there is a grand comic book and print run conspiracy afoot ).

So random people know exactly what Marvel’s print run is at Diamond? And they’re giving this information out for free? 
 

Man, a respected entity like Comichron has been doing it wrong all these years. 
 

Duh. 

28 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Probably still a much better use of your time than shaking your fist at the clouds here (hat tip valiantman).

-J.

You’re an embarrassment. 

[Jaydogrules]

42 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Hachette buys directly from Marvel, NOT Diamond. Your reading comprehension is horrible. 

Marvel has an exclusive deal with both Hatchette and Disney outside of Diamonds little Direct Market. 
 

That’s how you’re wrong. 

So random people know exactly what Marvel’s print run is at Diamond? And they’re giving this information out for free? 
 

Man, a respected entity like Comichron has been doing it wrong all these years. 
 

Duh. 

You’re an embarrassment. 

Still throwing popcorn from the cheap seats I see.

I did not not claim that anyone gave me "exact print runs" to anything other than the Dell'otto 667, and even that was reference to the one, single, solitary case pack of that book which was produced.  I merely confirmed comichron as a reliable public data source that people already know that it is.  Quit putting words in my mouth, that's the mark of a charlatan. 

Don't know what "random people" you think I'm referring to.  I got my info from well respected, high volume retailers who don't spout cockamamie conspiracy theories on public message boards (in other words, people who aren't you) as well as from the horse's mouth at Diamond.  

And now you're claiming Marvel AND Diamond both sell to Hachette?  Okay now you're not only moving the goal posts with your cockamamie conspiracy theories,  you're just plain lying to people (again). 

-J.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Jaydogrules

[Jaydogrules]

20 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Hachette buys directly from Marvel, NOT Diamond. Your reading comprehension is horrible. 

Marvel has an exclusive deal with both Hatchette and Disney outside of Diamonds little Direct Market. 
 

That’s how you’re wrong. 

So random people know exactly what Marvel’s print run is at Diamond? And they’re giving this information out for free? 
 

Man, a respected entity like Comichron has been doing it wrong all these years. 
 

Duh. 

You’re an embarrassment. 

And now that you've adequately dug your grave I'm going to go ahead and post this link now-

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr.com/marvel-makes-theirs-hachette/amp/

Hachette-  Distributor only in the BOOK MARKET.  That would be GRAPHIC NOVELS, TPB's ONLY not floppies (individual direct market/newsstand circulation comic books). 

I will happily accept your mea culpas now  (even though I know, if your past posting history is any guide, you will die with the lie instead).

-J.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Jaydogrules

[Brock]

10 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

And now that you've adequately dug your grave I'm going to go ahead and post this link now-

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr.com/marvel-makes-theirs-hachette/amp/

Hachette-  Distributor only in the BOOK MARKET.  That would be GRAPHIC NOVELS, TPB's ONLY not floppies (individual direct market/newsstand circulation comic books). 

I will happily accept your mea culpas now  (even though I know, if your past posting history is any guide, you will die with the lie instead).

-J.

I'm trying to quietly navigate the vitriol in all of this, but let me add a couple of thoughts...

I've read the media release you linked to, and it isn't entirely clear to me exactly what the Hachette deal covers, but I suspect that what it covers is broad. It refers to "Marvel books" as the focus of the deal, but I suspect this is likely to include floppies going to to outlets other than the LCS. The release doesn't make this clear, and the release's explanation of the Hachette role could be interpreted either way, but the key takeaway (in my mind) is the release's suggestion that the Diamond distribution deal only relates to LCS's.

This relates back to @Chuck Gower and his comment about Marvel floppies on international newsstands... I've worked in about 65 countries, and I continue to travel widely. Like Chuck, I see floppies on the newsstands reasonably frequently. This is especially true at newsstands in airports and train stations, and although this could be a sampling error (because, as a traveler, I'm frequently in airports and train stations), it's enough of a sample to suggest that the scope of distribution could be extensive (granted, it may be by distribution to sub-distributors). Taken globally, there must be literally thousands of these outlets. They don't have huge quantities of comics, but will often have 8 to 12 titles, with 2 to 5 copies of each title.

These are often Marvel, DC or Archie books (for some reason, Disney books seem to always be more locally-sourced). Sometimes, these are Titan or Panini editions of the books in question, from the UK or Europe, so they don't really impact this present discussion, but it's not that unusual to find the North American editions.

In my mind, it's likely that Hachette (or someone similar) is the distributor of these books. The release doesn't explicitly say this, but it does say that Diamond distributes only to LCS's, which suggest to me that they aren't shipping to airports in Ukraine or train stations in Japan.

[Jaydogrules]

9 minutes ago, Brock said:

I'm trying to quietly navigate the vitriol in all of this, but let me add a couple of thoughts...

I've read the media release you linked to, and it isn't entirely clear to me exactly what the Hachette deal covers, but I suspect that what it covers is broad. It refers to "Marvel books" as the focus of the deal, but I suspect this is likely to include floppies going to to outlets other than the LCS. The release doesn't make this clear, and the release's explanation of the Hachette role could be interpreted either way, but the key takeaway (in my mind) is the release's suggestion that the Diamond distribution deal only relates to LCS's.

This relates back to @Chuck Gower and his comment about Marvel floppies on international newsstands... I've worked in about 65 countries, and I continue to travel widely. Like Chuck, I see floppies on the newsstands reasonably frequently. This is especially true at newsstands in airports and train stations, and although this could be a sampling error (because, as a traveler, I'm frequently in airports and train stations), it's enough of a sample to suggest that the scope of distribution could be extensive (granted, it may be by distribution to sub-distributors). Taken globally, there must be literally thousands of these outlets. They don't have huge quantities of comics, but will often have 8 to 12 titles, with 2 to 5 copies of each title.

These are often Marvel, DC or Archie books (for some reason, Disney books seem to always be more locally-sourced). Sometimes, these are Titan or Panini editions of the books in question, from the UK or Europe, so they don't really impact this present discussion, but it's not that unusual to find the North American editions.

In my mind, it's likely that Hachette (or someone similar) is the distributor of these books. The release doesn't explicitly say this, but it does say that Diamond distributes only to LCS's, which suggest to me that they aren't shipping to airports in Ukraine or train stations in Japan.

Thanks for the input.  I will agree that whatever actualy floppies you might see at airports, train stations are likely Diamond resellers.  In fact, that is the only realistic explanation.  

But I knew somebody would try to spin what the Hachette press release plainly states into something it does not state.  Pretty sure I see some more goal post movement in there too. 

So I bootstrapped this link just for you. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr.com/marvel-makes-theirs-hachette/amp/

"Marvel will extend its relationship with Diamond, continuing its commitment to comic shops worldwide. Gabriel explained, "Diamond Book Distributors has been very instrumental in the growth of our graphic novel business, nearly tripling our sales in the book market over the last five years, and we thank them for their efforts. The decision to switch book market distributors was a very difficult one but as evidenced by the extension of our Direct Market agreement, our working relationship with Diamond remains very close. We remain extremely appreciative of our Direct Market retailers and continue to grow that vital market.""

So that's three times I count where it is explicitly stated what the agreement covers? 

Sorry, but you can't save Chuck here.

-J.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Jaydogrules

[Prince Namor]

2 minutes ago, Brock said:

I'm trying to quietly navigate the vitriol in all of this, but let me add a couple of thoughts...

I've read the media release you linked to, and it isn't entirely clear to me exactly what the Hachette deal covers, but I suspect that what it covers is broad. It refers to "Marvel books" as the focus of the deal, but I suspect this is likely to include floppies going to to outlets other than the LCS. The release doesn't make this clear, and the release's explanation of the Hachette role could be interpreted either way, but the key takeaway (in my mind) is the release's suggestion that the Diamond distribution deal only relates to LCS's.

This relates back to @Chuck Gower and his comment about Marvel floppies on international newsstands... I've worked in about 65 countries, and I continue to travel widely. Like Chuck, I see floppies on the newsstands reasonably frequently. This is especially true at newsstands in airports and train stations, and although this could be a sampling error (because, as a traveler, I'm frequently in airports and train stations), it's enough of a sample to suggest that the scope of distribution could be extensive (granted, it may be by distribution to sub-distributors). Taken globally, there must be literally thousands of these outlets. They don't have huge quantities of comics, but will often have 8 to 12 titles, with 2 to 5 copies of each title.

These are often Marvel, DC or Archie books (for some reason, Disney books seem to always be more locally-sourced). Sometimes, these are Titan or Panini editions of the books in question, from the UK or Europe, so they don't really impact this present discussion, but it's not that unusual to find the North American editions.

In my mind, it's likely that Hachette (or someone similar) is the distributor of these books. The release doesn't explicitly say this, but it does say that Diamond distributes only to LCS's, which suggest to me that they aren't shipping to airports in Ukraine or train stations in Japan.

Exactly. 
If jay knew the history of distribution, he’d understand the overall plan Marvel has in mind... one that they’ve tried previously (to control all of their own distribution, ESPECIALLY outside of Diamond) and thus control more profit.

They now have two additional distribution means that service BOTH the United States, as well as the WORLD, in Hachette and Disney. That market continues to grow, thanks to movies and merchandise throughout the world. Both distributors sell both floppies and trades. Diamond is powerless to do anything about it. The day they lose Marvel, Diamond is finished. And maybe the Direct Market as we know it. 
 

This is a history lesson we’ve already been through once. 
 

It’s in Diamonds best interest to promote these books as collectible, because the demand is going down and really, the incentive variant is the only thing holding up the print run on most of these books. 
 

LCS that buy in the quantities that Marvel wants are fewer and farther between. They’re on the lookout for bigger buyers and more profitable distribution means for themselves. 

[Jaydogrules]

5 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Exactly. 
If jay knew the history of distribution, he’d understand the overall plan Marvel has in mind... one that they’ve tried previously (to control all of their own distribution, ESPECIALLY outside of Diamond) and thus control more profit.

They now have two additional distribution means that service BOTH the United States, as well as the WORLD, in Hachette and Disney. That market continues to grow, thanks to movies and merchandise throughout the world. Both distributors sell both floppies and trades. Diamond is powerless to do anything about it. The day they lose Marvel, Diamond is finished. And maybe the Direct Market as we know it. 
 

This is a history lesson we’ve already been through once. 
 

It’s in Diamonds best interest to promote these books as collectible, because the demand is going down and really, the incentive variant is the only thing holding up the print run on most of these books. 
 

LCS that buy in the quantities that Marvel wants are fewer and farther between. They’re on the lookout for bigger buyers and more profitable distribution means for themselves. 

No. But keep digging, this is fun for me.  Die with the lie Chuck.  Die with the lie.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr.com/marvel-makes-theirs-hachette/amp/

" Marvel will extend its relationship with Diamond, continuing its commitment to comic shops worldwide. Gabriel explained, "Diamond Book Distributors has been very instrumental in the growth of our graphic novel business, nearly tripling our sales in the book market over the last five years, and we thank them for their efforts. The decision to switch book market distributors was a very difficult one but as evidenced by the extension of our Direct Market agreement, our working relationship with Diamond remains very close. We remain extremely appreciative of our Direct Market retailers and continue to grow that vital market.""

-J. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Jaydogrules

[Brock]

5 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

 

"Marvel will extend its relationship with Diamond, continuing its commitment to comic shops worldwide. Gabriel explained, "Diamond Book Distributors has been very instrumental in the growth of our graphic novel business, nearly tripling our sales in the book market over the last five years, and we thank them for their efforts. The decision to switch book market distributors was a very difficult one but as evidenced by the extension of our Direct Market agreement, our working relationship with Diamond remains very close. We remain extremely appreciative of our Direct Market retailers and continue to grow that vital market.""

So that's three times I count where it is explicitly stated what the agreement covers? 

Thanks, Jaydog... I guess I interpret these same sentences pretty differently. Here's where I think we differ - the definition of "Book Market". I think this refers to sales in the non-LCS space. I think we can safely assume it doesn't refer to graphic novel sales only, because the release itself refers to these separately; in effect, it uses two different terms - "graphic novel business" and "book market", and thereby suggests that they are two different ideas.

The release praises Diamond for tripling Marvel's sales in the book market, and infers that this is in large part because of a growing graphic novel business. It is, in fact, silent on the issue of what's going on with floppy sales in the book market. However, it states that all distribution to the book market will now be handled by Hachette. To me, this suggests that all Marvel product (including graphic novels, floppies, posters, etc.)  going into the "book market" will be handled by Hachette.

Ultimately, I think you and I are both working on interpretations here that are based on insufficient data (i.e. a single press release). Perhaps someone else on the boards has more direct knowledge?

[Prince Namor]

5 minutes ago, Brock said:

Thanks, Jaydog... I guess I interpret these same sentences pretty differently. Here's where I think we differ - the definition of "Book Market". I think this refers to sales in the non-LCS space. I think we can safely assume it doesn't refer to graphic novel sales only, because the release itself refers to these separately; in effect, it uses two different terms - "graphic novel business" and "book market", and thereby suggests that they are two different ideas.

The release praises Diamond for tripling Marvel's sales in the book market, and infers that this is in large part because of a growing graphic novel business. It is, in fact, silent on the issue of what's going on with floppy sales in the book market. However, it states that all distribution to the book market will now be handled by Hachette. To me, this suggests that all Marvel product (including graphic novels, floppies, posters, etc.)  going into the "book market" will be handled by Hachette.

Ultimately, I think you and I are both working on interpretations here that are based on insufficient data (i.e. a single press release). Perhaps someone else on the boards has more direct knowledge?

Insufficient data from an article that is almost 10 years old. 

[Jaydogrules]

Just now, Brock said:

Thanks, Jaydog... I guess I interpret these same sentences pretty differently. Here's where I think we differ - the definition of "Book Market". I think this refers to sales in the non-LCS space. I think we can safely assume it doesn't refer to graphic novel sales only, because the release itself refers to these separately; in effect, it uses two different terms - "graphic novel business" and "book market", and thereby suggests that they are two different ideas.

The release praises Diamond for tripling Marvel's sales in the book market, and infers that this is in large part because of a growing graphic novel business. It is, in fact, silent on the issue of what's going on with floppy sales in the book market. However, it states that all distribution to the book market will now be handled by Hachette. To me, this suggests that all Marvel product (including graphic novels, floppies, posters, etc.)  going into the "book market" will be handled by Hachette.

Ultimately, I think you and I are both working on interpretations here that are based on insufficient data (i.e. a single press release). Perhaps someone else on the boards has more direct knowledge?

Lol no, the "book market" is exactly what it is saying. "Graphic novels and trade paperbacks", as explicitly and only described in the first link.  Nobody says anything about comic books in there for a reason. There is nothing open to interpretation here, unless you are trying to rationalize Gower being either catastrophically wrong, or blatantly dishonest and deceptive. 

-J.

[Prince Namor]

The people here who believe jay, do so because they want their variants to be valuable. Plain and simple. 
 

Everyone else would just like to know what the available truth is. 
 

We’ve seen these scenarios play out before, and never has it been to the benefit of the ‘collector’, but rather always for Marvel. 

[Jaydogrules]

19 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

The people here who believe jay, do so because they want their variants to be valuable. Plain and simple. 
 

Everyone else would just like to know what the available truth is. 
 

We’ve seen these scenarios play out before, and never has it been to the benefit of the ‘collector’, but rather always for Marvel. 

At this point, if I were you, I would spend less time worrying and speculating about what people want and "believe", and more time getting your facts straight before you try to foist your OPINIONS on a public message board.  

-J.

[Prince Namor]

4 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

At this point, if I were you, I would spend less time worrying and speculating about what people want and "believe", and more time getting your facts straight before you try to foist your OPINIONS on a public message board.  

-J.

For someone who has shown no facts, this is humorous to hear from you. 

[Jaydogrules]

Just now, Chuck Gower said:

For someone who has shown no facts, this is humorous to hear from you. 

Die with the lie.

-J.

[Brock]

46 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

There is nothing open to interpretation here, unless you are trying to rationalize Gower being either catastrophically wrong, or blatantly dishonest and deceptive. 

Well, I guess that reply says it all. 

Hopefully they let you out for some fresh air soon.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Brock

[Lazyboy]

15 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Die with the lie.

-J.

We can only hope you will.

[Jaydogrules]

2 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

We can only hope you will.

 ...sock puppet accounts.

-J.

[ygogolak]

4 hours ago, ygogolak said:

Not sure what you mean. I said second prints. The publisher is intentionally telling the printer to print less than the Diamond FOC orders. You said your "guy" told you that was not how it worked.

4 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

I'm not sure exactly what you're saying lol.  But it still seems to be the opposite of "deliberately over printing comics that no one ordered for the sole purpose of wasting space in a warehouse only to sell for pennies on the dollar later" lol.

I would also add that if Marvel did deliberately monkey around with Diamond's orders, and that could actually be proved, that would be a fairly egregious breach of their contract with Diamond. 

-J.

If the publisher can tell the printer to under-print, they can also tell them to over-print. You specifically said they cannot and yet I've provided a current example in which they did.

 

 

[Lazyboy]

Just now, Jaydogrules said:

 ...sock puppet accounts.

-J.

Even you can't be stupid enough to actually believe that multiple people who've met and are known to many other board members are really the same, single person. You are simply lying in a pathetic attempt to discredit those who are smarter and more knowledgeable than you.