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CAPTAIN MARVEL starring Brie Larson (3/8/19)
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2,795 posts in this topic

Some people just like sub-par movies. Whether it's because they're not compelling people themselves, or wannabe PC and SJW, that's neither here nor there.

The Russo Bros will probably use her correctly in Endgame. Reign in her power and give us a good feel for her inclusion to the MCU.

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2 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

But Captain America keeps getting up! He keeps winning! He keeps getting better! 

This is Captain America's story as well.

You saw a different movie than me. 

Steve Rogers gets beat up by a bully - ends up being Captain America. Same thing.

You keep bringing up Captian America.  His motivations are far more defined, and his character weaknesses are much more explained and profound than Carol's ever are in this movie. I would argue from a physical standpoint he overcomes far more.  

 

Plus Captian America has far fewer powers, and a very defined power set. CA is beatable. We know he is basically the strongest possible human, and his strength is just beyond a very elite extremely well rounded athlete. He is the ideal almost plausible human speciman, he is not consmic.

 

Carol gets power by accident, and there is no hint even given to what their upper limits may be.  All we know is once powered up she wins easily, and is now a god.

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Just now, Bird said:

 

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I see why they did what they did with the skrulls but I don't expecially care for it, I like my skrulls mean and nasty. And the Kree were especially evil by the end! (Well, the Supreme Intelligence always struck me as a bad guy through and through so I guess that fits.)

 

 

Spoiler

They did mention that Skrulls are located "all across the galaxy". I think they did this particularly to give us the understanding that there may be villainous colonies among them. IMO a good call.

 

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16 minutes ago, drotto said:

You keep bringing up Captian America.  His motivations are far more defined, and his character weaknesses are much more explained and profound than Carol's ever are in this movie.

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Disagree. I think they're about the same.

16 minutes ago, drotto said:

I would argue from a physical standpoint he overcomes far more.  

Sure. He's a weakling. 

16 minutes ago, drotto said:

 

Plus Captian America has far fewer powers, and a very defined power set. CA is beatable.

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Yet he never loses!

16 minutes ago, drotto said:

We know he is basically the strongest possible human, and his strength is just beyond a very elite extremely well rounded athlete. He is the ideal almost plausible human speciman, he is not consmic.

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Yep. Which I find boring. I was ready for a cosmic superhero.

16 minutes ago, drotto said:

Carol gets power by accident, and there is no hint even given to what their upper limits may be.  All we know is once powered up she wins easily, and is now a god.

You may have missed the ending of most superhero movies. They all win 'easily'. 

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12 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Disagree. I think they're about the same.

Sure. He's a weakling. 

Yet he never loses!

Yep. Which I find boring. I was ready for a cosmic superhero.

You may have missed the ending of most superhero movies. They all win 'easily'. 

So you missed Infinity war (yes I known part 2). Or when CA loses Bucky and sacrifices his life, and happiness to win. Or for WW Steve dies. Thor loses his thrown for a time. Etc.  There is none of that in Captian Marvel.

 

Captian Marvel would have been far better if Monica had died. It would have shown she can lose. Would have shown the Kree as dangerous.  Would have show she can't do it all alone. It would have provided her motivation and justification to leave Earth for 25 years. It would have given her emotional motivation and a stake in the war.  

 

I do think th Russo brother are going to give her the beat down moment where initially she does not get up.  I predict in her first confrontation with Thonas she is going to go it alone and get beat badly. At which point, most likely Captian America is going to pick her up and say something like even you are not powerful enough to win this one on your own. We need each other, we need this team, the Avengers

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1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

Yes, with no knowledge of anything at the beginning. Nothing.

She did, with no knowledge of any of it. Nor how to use them.

Higher, further, faster, baby! :baiting: She demonstrates cosmic powers out-of-the-gate which immediately conveys to the audience Carol is more than just a warrior with well-trained soldier skills.

Diana, unfortunately, had nothing but hand-to-hand combat skills and watched her people die around her. Though she too had these hidden powers.

She may have "demonstrated cosmic powers out of the gate" but it's clear -- as the movie progresses -- that she didn't have them to start.

You're conflating the *way* the story is told (starting in media res when she's already a seasoned galactic warrior, with subsequent flashbacks to when she was merely human) with the actual story (and character) itself.

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12 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

She may have "demonstrated cosmic powers out of the gate" but it's clear -- as the movie progresses -- that she didn't have them to start.

You're conflating the *way* the story is told (starting in media res when she's already a seasoned galactic warrior, with subsequent flashbacks to when she was merely human) with the actual story (and character) itself.

Can we agree that the stupid disk flaccid-keeper that was stolen from Ragnarok did not help this movie, or her character, one bit..?

It was completely meaningless. Why would the Kree even reign her powers in? If she bought into their ideals, why would they neuter her?

It doesn't make any sense. She wasn't even controlling herself. Someone else was keeping her "weak". Hence the lack of character arc. She didn't overcome or adapt to her powers. It was trash.

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1 minute ago, Gatsby77 said:

She may have "demonstrated cosmic powers out of the gate" but it's clear -- as the movie progresses -- that she didn't have them to start.

You're conflating the *way* the story is told (starting in media res when she's already a seasoned galactic warrior, with subsequent flashbacks to when she was merely human) with the actual story (and character) itself.

And maybe the *way* the story is told to immerse the audience in her psychological confusion could be what leads to partial audience confusion.

Outside of DC and Marvel, even stories like Wanted had to deal with someone not aware of his hidden powers, right? It's how you ease the audience into realizing along with the protagonist they will contribute to society in a larger way.

'A lot of things for you were impossible before today...'

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16 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

Can we agree that the stupid disk flaccid-keeper that was stolen from Ragnarok did not help this movie, or her character, one bit..?

It was completely meaningless. Why would the Kree even reign her powers in? If she bought into their ideals, why would they neuter her?

It doesn't make any sense. She wasn't even controlling herself. Someone else was keeping her "weak". Hence the lack of character arc. She didn't overcome or adapt to her powers. It was trash.

Thus, the movie is more about her being oppressed and being kept down as opposed to being weak. I still contend she is never weak in the movie. She must overcome, which is an indication of inherent strength. 

 

And yes, I am sick of the Tesseract. It needs to be retired, and should have been left out of this movie.

Edited by drotto
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29 minutes ago, drotto said:

So you missed Infinity war (yes I known part 2).

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Cap's 6th movie?

29 minutes ago, drotto said:

Or when CA loses Bucky and sacrifices his life, and happiness to win.

 

You mean like how Carol loses Dr. Lawson, someone who is a guiding force in her life (enough so that SHE is the one who maifests as the Supreme Intelligence to her) and then loses her memory and thus her best friend Maria Rambeau, but despite this and not having her memories back, still decides to help Talos?

29 minutes ago, drotto said:

Or for WW Steve dies.

 

We all know he didn't die.

29 minutes ago, drotto said:

Thor loses his thrown for a time. Etc.  There is none of that in Captian Marvel.

 

None that you see. If losing all of the memories of your real life mean nothing to you, I guess....

29 minutes ago, drotto said:

Captian Marvel would have been far better if Monica had died. It would have shown she can lose. Would have shown the Kree as dangerous.  Would have show she can't do it all alone.

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Uh... that's what they showed us in IW. NOW, we need some help...

29 minutes ago, drotto said:

It would have provided her motivation and justification to leave Earth for 25 years. It would have given her emotional motivation and a stake in the war.  

 

She has that. The Skrulls... finding them a home world, and the Kree.. beating them.

29 minutes ago, drotto said:

I do think th Russo brother are going to give her the beat down moment where initially she does not get up.  I predict in her first confrontation with Thonas she is going to go it alone and get beat badly. At which point, most likely Captian America is going to pick her up and say something like even you are not powerful enough to win this one on your own. We need each other, we need this team, the Avengers

Could be. 

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I enjoyed it... but I didn’t LOVE it - I find that just about every marvel movie is GOOD ( I’m looking at you Thor: Dark world as not making the cut) with a small portion being GREAT ( my absolute fave is Winter Soldier )

and felt this would be lumped in the good category very easily 

my 2 qualms are as follows :

Spoiler

I didn’t like the films version of Mar- Vell or a seemingly quick version of “ Secret Invasion “

 

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4 minutes ago, drotto said:

Thus, the movie is more about her being oppressed and being kept down as opposed to being weak. I still contend she is never weak in the movie. She must overcome, which is an indication of inherent strength. 

 

And yes, I am sick of the Tesseract. It needs to be retired, and should have been left out of this movie.

She didn't even have to overcome anything. Once she realized the reality of the war, she should've immediately removed the device. It shows how stupid her character is for not doing so.

She, without explanation, does have seemingly unlimited strength. It's okay to be a strong, or strong-minded character, but her character had literally no arc.

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4 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

She didn't even have to overcome anything. Once she realized the reality of the war, she should've immediately removed the device. It shows how stupid her character is for not doing so.

She, without explanation, does have seemingly unlimited strength. It's okay to be a strong, or strong-minded character, but her character had literally no arc.

I agree. She has a story, not a hero's arc.

 

Iron Man was a flawed, selfish, self centered, alcoholic. He learns to change that.

 

Captian America is all about risking his own life to serve the greater good.

 

Thor suffered from hubris and learns being born a god does not make you better.

 

All are clear, classic hero's journeys.  Captian Marvel lacks that. She at no point becomes a better person, she becomes "stronger" which is not the same. Yes she overcomes, but she is not changed at the core level.

 

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TBH, if I ever feel the need to re-watch Phase 3, this movie will be skipped - just the same as The Incredible Hulk in Phase 1.

It's just a boring stop from Infinity War to Endgame. I'd be better off taking a 2-hour nap to recoup my emotions.

That all, despite the greatness of Samuel L. Jackson, and my fondness for the Skrull treatment.

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1 hour ago, Bird said:

My 15 year old daughter like CM more than WW, she didn't like all the skin WW shows and thought CM was a better movie.

My significant other felt the same way, but she hasn't seen the movie, she just thought that based upon the action figure we got for our daughter based upon the movie.  I don't think ANY of the Marvel films have sexualized female costumes, do they?  From X-Men onwards, they all seem to cover up all Marvel hero stomachs, thighs, and usually show no cleavage, or if they do only a little.  I think Scarlet Witch has a little bit of cleavage, and that's all I can remember.

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I liked this movie and thought it was done well, but I don't put it in the upper echelon of Marvel movies.  I agree to some extent with some of the commenters, not quite as much development and an overpowered ending, so I don't think I connected quite as much.  But I do think its kind of a subtle nod to feminism.  Carol didn't overcome quite as much in this specific movie, I think the point is that she's been overcoming her entire life, whether as a little girl, or in the military, or with the Kree.  She keeps getting up, and the power was in her the whole time, if she would just realize it.  I think as guys, we don't always realize how women have to overcome that part of things, at least I don't.  My wife liked this movie more than Wonder Woman, she liked that it was fast paced through most of it, and that the feminist tropes could be as deep or as ignorable as you want them to be. 

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7 minutes ago, revat said:

I liked this movie and thought it was done well, but I don't put it in the upper echelon of Marvel movies.  I agree to some extent with some of the commenters, not quite as much development and an overpowered ending, so I don't think I connected quite as much.  But I do think its kind of a subtle nod to feminism.  Carol didn't overcome quite as much in this specific movie, I think the point is that she's been overcoming her entire life, whether as a little girl, or in the military, or with the Kree.  She keeps getting up, and the power was in her the whole time, if she would just realize it.  I think as guys, we don't always realize how women have to overcome that part of things, at least I don't.  My wife liked this movie more than Wonder Woman, she liked that it was fast paced through most of it, and that the feminist tropes could be as deep or as ignorable as you want them to be. 

Again different tastes.  My wife loved WW, and felt Captain Marvel was flat and kinda dull.

 

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Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel both suffer from underwhelming 3rd Acts.

Wonder Woman had an amazing 2-hour lead-in, though.

Captain Marvel relies heavily on co-stars to stay above water. While Chris Pine was great, Gal Gadot and her character didn't need him to be good.

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My take: I not only have no problem with the things Brie Larson has said and done, I applaud her. I also appreciated the film's main message, which is a parable about women breaking free of the constrictions and restrictions placed on them by society (and/or the patriarchy if you will) and embracing their full power as people, which can only be achieved when they understand who they really are as opposed to who they are told they have to be. 

My finacee also liked it much more than Wonder Woman.

Having said all that... I thought it was only pretty good. I thought it started very slowly, and I thought the ending lacked drama and stakes because she was so overpowered. I also think the jury is still out on Larson in this role. Here, she was hamstrung by playing a character who is emotionally disconnected. Her performance didn't land with me until after the midpoint - the film for me lacks emotional resonance until she visits the Rambeaus, which is also when Carol herself starts to tap into her emotions. So I am waiting to see how Larson plays a fully realized Carol in future movies - how much of the flatness of her performance was due to what she was being asked to portray is a question mark for me. 

this movie for me is a 7 out of 10. I wanted to love it, but instead I just admired what it was trying to do, even though it wasn't always successful. I thought in some ways it was the opposite of Wonder Woman, which I also would give a 7 out of 10; WW I thought was a great lead performance in a very mediocre movie, where this I thought was a mediocre performance in what could have been a much better film. 

I have hopes for the future, though. Thor and Captain America are franchises that both started out just pretty good for me before rising to much greater heights later, once the groundwork had been laid. I'm hoping the same is true here. 

Edited by Crimebuster
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