@therealsilvermane Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 hour ago, theCapraAegagrus said: Except that she isn't. Yes she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Average moviegoers mostly view Captain Marvel as mediocre - because it is. Some agenda-lovers love it and some agenda-haters hate it. As someone who prefers agendas being omitted from escapist experiences like big-screen film, I simply agree with the average moviegoer that this was mediocre. There are 0 arrows pointing to Danvers being front-and-center of the MCU. Literally 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said: Yes she is. She isn't though. There's literally no evidence to suggest what you're suggesting. Simply unsupported conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@therealsilvermane Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said: There are 0 arrows pointing to Danvers being front-and-center of the MCU. Literally 0. Well here’s one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said: Well here’s one... Which Disney+ and/or Phase 4 pieces is she a part of again? Can't be front-and-center if you're featured in nothing. Actions speak louder than words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 As any historian of the MCU will recall - Feige also wanted Cap to "lead" the MCU beginning in Phase 1. That didn't happen from a character-personality standpoint. She ain't the future he had hoped for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@therealsilvermane Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said: Which Disney+ and/or Phase 4 pieces is she a part of again? Can't be front-and-center if you're featured in nothing. Actions speak louder than words. Yes, but Black Panther, Ant-Man, the Guardians of the Galaxy, or the next Avengers movie aren’t part of Phase Four, either. We’re getting Dr Strange and Thor because the timing is due for their films. Phase Four is only two years long. It seems to me it’s going to mostly serve the purpose of rebuilding the universe from the ashes of Endgame before getting to the meat of Phase Five and beyond. And there’s a strong possibility that Carol Danvers appears in the Ms. Marvel Disney+ series. Edited January 17, 2020 by @therealsilvermane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said: Yes, but Black Panther, Ant-Man, the Guardians of the Galaxy, or the next Avengers movie aren’t part of Phase Four, either. We’re getting Dr Strange and Thor because the timing is due for their films. Phase Four is only two years long. It seems to me mostly going to serve the purpose of rebuilding the universe from the ashes of Endgame before getting to the meat of Phase Five and beyond. And there’s a strong possibility that Carol Danvers appears in the Ms. Marvel Disney+ series. The likelihood that any Phase 4 character becomes the 'next Iron Man', or the MCU doesn't even have one because it's going down-down-down, is greater than Danvers being the next big thing. "The Avengers are toast." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 25 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said: First, average moviegoers mostly liked Captain Marvel. Social agendas aside, it was some hardcore fans who wanted their MCU one way or another who didn’t like the film. Since RT is tainted due to the audience data manipulation, IMDb's large sample is a good data reference point - removing 'fanatic emotions' from the discussion. Without box office being the sole testament to liking a film, it would appear of the 389,118 members rated this a 6.9/10 compared to 207,614 members rating Shazam a 7.1/10. So either more people saw the former and liked it less, or more users over time will get around to rating the latter and pushing it down or higher. But it is interesting the extent of 1 to 4 ratings the former received in comparison. Too easy to just point the finger at people being Marvel comic book fanatics that demanded that version. Myself, I was very excited to see the film with that first teaser with that haunting soundtrack. 25 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said: Yes, the sky’s the limit with the MCU, but the arrows are pointing towards Carol Danvers being at its center both story wise and in merchandising. Kevin Feige said as much a couple years ago. In the comics, we’re starting to see more Kree-Skrull-centric storylines such as Incoming and Empyre aka Captain Marvel territory. There are rumors of similar story elements coming to the MCU. In real life, has Disney made Elizabeth Olsen or ScarJo a guest host on Jimmy Kimmel or appear in Bear Gryllis’ Man vs Wild? Nope, it was Brie Larson. In a few years, as we walk the aisles of Target or whatever, expect to see Avengers birthday plates and backpacks with Captain Marvel positioned where Captain America or Iron Man used to be. Maybe the occasional juxtaposition with Spider-Man. Feige may have said a Captain Marvel would be central a few years ago. And then the Fox acquisition occurred, bring together an amazing assortment of characters the MCU did not have access to. I wouldn't make light of that scenario. Did Jimmy Kimmel invite Brie Larson to the show because of Captain Marvel and at Disney's request? Or was it part of bringing on a famous Hollywood celebrity as a fun surprise? You may be blurring the two, and assuming it is all about Feige and Disney. Though of course they would want to boost her image for future projects, and appreciate something like this. How Brie Larson nailed Jimmy Kimmel's guest host gig I don't see where it notes 'And Disney wisely pushed Brie Larson forward because as an incredible actress that will be the future MCU franchise'. But maybe you have different disclaimers than everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
▫️ Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 I’m completely good with the idea that CM could be leading and playing a crucial role for the MCU going forward as long as they don’t use the same writer and directors from the first CM film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, Bosco685 said: Since RT is tainted due to the audience data manipulation, IMDb's large sample is a good data reference point - removing 'fanatic emotions' from the discussion. Without box office being the sole testament to liking a film, it would appear of the 389,118 members rated this a 6.9/10 compared to 207,614 members rating Shazam a 7.1/10. So either more people saw the former and liked it less, or more users over time will get around to rating the latter and pushing it down or higher. But it is interesting the extent of 1 to 4 ratings the former received in comparison. Too easy to just point the finger at people being Marvel comic book fanatics that demanded that version. Myself, I was very excited to see the film with that first teaser with that haunting soundtrack. Feige may have said a Captain Marvel would be central a few years ago. And then the Fox acquisition occurred, bring together an amazing assortment of characters the MCU did not have access to. I wouldn't make light of that scenario. Did Jimmy Kimmel invite Brie Larson to the show because of Captain Marvel and at Disney's request? Or was it part of bringing on a famous Hollywood celebrity as a fun surprise? You may be blurring the two, and assuming it is all about Feige and Disney. Though of course they would want to boost her image for future projects, and appreciate something like this. How Brie Larson nailed Jimmy Kimmel's guest host gig I don't see where it notes 'And Disney wisely pushed Brie Larson forward because as an incredible actress that will be the future MCU franchise'. But maybe you have different disclaimers than everyone else. The real Captain Marvel movie was better. They both had 3rd Acts that didn't impress, though. Marvel's Captain Marvel 1st trailer was better than all of Shazam's trailers. Can't deny that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said: Marvel's Captain Marvel 1st trailer was better than all of Shazam's trailers. Can't deny that. It got me very excited to see the film. So with that it hit the mark. But then I saw the film and wondered 'where is THAT film' I was teased about? theCapraAegagrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@therealsilvermane Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 23 hours ago, Bosco685 said: Since RT is tainted due to the audience data manipulation, IMDb's large sample is a good data reference point - removing 'fanatic emotions' from the discussion. Without box office being the sole testament to liking a film, it would appear of the 389,118 members rated this a 6.9/10 compared to 207,614 members rating Shazam a 7.1/10. So either more people saw the former and liked it less, or more users over time will get around to rating the latter and pushing it down or higher. But it is interesting the extent of 1 to 4 ratings the former received in comparison. Too easy to just point the finger at people being Marvel comic book fanatics that demanded that version. Myself, I was very excited to see the film with that first teaser with that haunting soundtrack. Feige may have said a Captain Marvel would be central a few years ago. And then the Fox acquisition occurred, bring together an amazing assortment of characters the MCU did not have access to. I wouldn't make light of that scenario. Did Jimmy Kimmel invite Brie Larson to the show because of Captain Marvel and at Disney's request? Or was it part of bringing on a famous Hollywood celebrity as a fun surprise? You may be blurring the two, and assuming it is all about Feige and Disney. Though of course they would want to boost her image for future projects, and appreciate something like this. How Brie Larson nailed Jimmy Kimmel's guest host gig I don't see where it notes 'And Disney wisely pushed Brie Larson forward because as an incredible actress that will be the future MCU franchise'. But maybe you have different disclaimers than everyone else. It's very easy to look at Captain Marvel's spike of 6.6% at the 1 rating and conclude that imdB isn't immune from manipulative little internet trolls, either. Anyone who thinks Capitan Marvel is a 1 has an agenda or is a bot. Disney's Fox acquisition is great, but out of that bunch of characters, the only ones that could lead a solo film are Wolverine and Deadpool. Maybe Silver Surfer, but he's a character who creates problems cinematically. Fantastic Four and X-Men will be team movies. And they're not Avengers, the flagship title of the MCU. Marvel's namesake hero will be front and center of the Avengers for the next decade if not only for the merchandising tie-in alone. But I think as the MCU goes more cosmic, the converging storylines will necessitate Carol Danvers being a key figure, whether it's Korvac or Annihilation or some Kree-Skrull conflict or whatever. Plus, I just don't see Marvel Studios "tackling" the X-Men full on until the latter part of this decade anyway. I can see them setting up the building blocks for Mutant kind but there's no need to rush an X-Men film. I'm very very curious to see how Marvel tackles the First Family, though. A good problem to have. And more Brie, please. Chaos_in_Canada 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said: It's very easy to look at Captain Marvel's spike of 6.6% at the 1 rating and conclude that imdB isn't immune from manipulative little internet trolls, either. Anyone who thinks Capitan Marvel is a 1 has an agenda or is a bot. Disney's Fox acquisition is great, but out of that bunch of characters, the only ones that could lead a solo film are Wolverine and Deadpool. Maybe Silver Surfer, but he's a character who creates problems cinematically. Fantastic Four and X-Men will be team movies. And they're not Avengers, the flagship title of the MCU. Marvel's namesake hero will be front and center of the Avengers for the next decade if not only for the merchandising tie-in alone. But I think as the MCU goes more cosmic, the converging storylines will necessitate Carol Danvers being a key figure, whether it's Korvac or Annihilation or some Kree-Skrull conflict or whatever. Plus, I just don't see Marvel Studios "tackling" the X-Men full on until the latter part of this decade anyway. I can see them setting up the building blocks for Mutant kind but there's no need to rush an X-Men film. I'm very very curious to see how Marvel tackles the First Family, though. A good problem to have. And more Brie, please. Ben Grimm (a wild, troubled Ben) Reed Richards Sue Storm (especially this character) Professor Xavier There's much the MCU can play with now more than ever before. And with Disney needing to recover $71.3 Billion, any properties being held back until later in the decade (or moved forward) may be outside the control of even Feige. But still with much faith in his judgement when to time the properties, within reason. IMDb being manipulated is easy to proclaim when data is presented. Though I always factor out 1's and 10's out as outliers as no way is Captain Marvel (or most films) a perfect 10. I notice you missed that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentbryan Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 No doubt we will be seeing more of Larson as CM being a key player (and I don’t have a problem with that) but I can’t see her being RDJ’s replacement as the center-piece of the MCU. Larryw7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TupennyConan Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Go more cosmic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@therealsilvermane Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, bentbryan said: No doubt we will be seeing more of Larson as CM being a key player (and I don’t have a problem with that) but I can’t see her being RDJ’s replacement as the center-piece of the MCU. Nobody can really replace what Robert Downy Jr brought to the MCU. If anything, I think Paul Rudd's Scott Lang will go a long way to making up for the humor that RDJ inherently added. The infighting and Stark vs Rogers tension drove some of the Avengers story through the first three phases. Maybe going forward we'll get a functional Avengers team that can actually work together instead of fighting each other. Edited January 18, 2020 by @therealsilvermane Chaos_in_Canada 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 They have plenty of humor throughout the MCU. RDJ being Tony Stark simply took it to the top. A guy who legitimately feels like a billionaire, genius, playboy, philanthropist. Lang can't replace any of that. He may be a genius-level engineer, but Stark was basically the most intelligent man on Fake Earth. As Far From Home conveys - no one is going to be the next Iron Man. It'll be a group effort from guys like Spider-Man, Black Panther, Ant-Man, etc that 'replace' that feeling. It's just too large a task. Replacing both Iron Man and Thanos. Captain Marvel doesn't seem smart. She doesn't have the charisma of a 'playgirl'. She isn't gonna be a tech (rich) resource for the Avengers. She's definitely no philanthropist. She ain't replacing Iron Man. I think audiences like more 'self-made' characters. Iron Man created the Arc Reactor and his suit. Steve Rogers created the man that embodies Captain America. Banner created the Hulk. Captain Marvel isn't interesting. No more interesting than Scarlet Witch (who has a more-storied history within the MCU, is getting a D+ show, and will be co-starring in a Phase 4 film). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@therealsilvermane Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 6 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said: They have plenty of humor throughout the MCU. RDJ being Tony Stark simply took it to the top. A guy who legitimately feels like a billionaire, genius, playboy, philanthropist. Lang can't replace any of that. He may be a genius-level engineer, but Stark was basically the most intelligent man on Fake Earth. As Far From Home conveys - no one is going to be the next Iron Man. It'll be a group effort from guys like Spider-Man, Black Panther, Ant-Man, etc that 'replace' that feeling. It's just too large a task. Replacing both Iron Man and Thanos. Captain Marvel doesn't seem smart. She doesn't have the charisma of a 'playgirl'. She isn't gonna be a tech (rich) resource for the Avengers. She's definitely no philanthropist. She ain't replacing Iron Man. I think audiences like more 'self-made' characters. Iron Man created the Arc Reactor and his suit. Steve Rogers created the man that embodies Captain America. Banner created the Hulk. Captain Marvel isn't interesting. No more interesting than Scarlet Witch (who has a more-storied history within the MCU, is getting a D+ show, and will be co-starring in a Phase 4 film). Scarlet Witch was never designed or written as a solo character. Like Invisible Girl, Marvel Girl/Jean Grey, or Storm ( as examples of other female Marvel heroes), they were written as team players. Carol Danvers/Ms. Marvel/Captain Marvel was designed and written as a solo hero (when she got her first series in 1977) as well as an Avenger. Sue Storm is the First Lady of Marvel Comics, but that doesn’t mean she’s going to get her own movie. I agree that it will take a team effort to make up not only for the loss of Tony Stark, but Steve Rogers, too. Black Panther’s Wakanda, Pym Tech, Bruce Banner, Peter Parker, and alien tech will probably make up for the relative loss of Stark tech and genius until Reed Richards arrives. Nick Fury, Carol Danvers, Sam Wilson, T’Challa, and Stephen Strange will probably have to combine together to make up for the loss of Steve Rogers’ heart, wisdom, and leadership. Thor and Scott Lang have the humor. And who knows what these new Phase Four heroes will bring to the table? Marvel Studios has done a pretty good job of keeping its storylines organic. I think besides Carol Danvers’ military leadership and power set, she also will bring a human connection to the cosmic storyline that will eventually play itself out, whatever that story will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said: Scarlet Witch was never designed or written as a solo character. Like Invisible Girl, Marvel Girl/Jean Grey, or Storm ( as examples of other female Marvel heroes), they were written as team players. Carol Danvers/Ms. Marvel/Captain Marvel was designed and written as a solo hero (when she got her first series in 1977) as well as an Avenger. Sue Storm is the First Lady of Marvel Comics, but that doesn’t mean she’s going to get her own movie. I agree that it will take a team effort to make up not only for the loss of Tony Stark, but Steve Rogers, too. Black Panther’s Wakanda, Pym Tech, Bruce Banner, Peter Parker, and alien tech will probably make up for the relative loss of Stark tech and genius until Reed Richards arrives. Nick Fury, Carol Danvers, Sam Wilson, T’Challa, and Stephen Strange will probably have to combine together to make up for the loss of Steve Rogers’ heart, wisdom, and leadership. Thor and Scott Lang have the humor. And who knows what these new Phase Four heroes will bring to the table? Marvel Studios has done a pretty good job of keeping its storylines organic. I think besides Carol Danvers’ military leadership and power set, she also will bring a human connection to the cosmic storyline that will eventually play itself out, whatever that story will be. So...? Written in the comics obviously doesn't mean s^&* to the MCU. Not sure how this is relevant to my post. Scarlet Witch is more fleshed-out within the MCU. That's all that really matters when comparing two MacGuffin byproducts right now. One is more interesting than the other. Pretty tough to be a "human connection" when you can't (or don't) convey human emotion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
