CAPTAIN MARVEL starring Brie Larson (3/8/19)
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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

More like:

aTriggered.jpg

I liked the movie, I didn't like Brie Larson's acting performance. So that automatically triggers people to start making race and age ad hominem attacks?

You don't know me so STFU with your racist stereotyping.

And same to everyone else who automatically assumes that anyone who doesn't like this movie must be a racist sexist "old white dude" including the one who first interjected race into this discussion.

Edited by jcjames

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I agree with much of Chuck's post.

Mainly, that the backlash would be more muted, frankly, if Brie Larson were hotter, sexier.

(Even though James Cameron attacked the Wonder Woman film for having her be both a strong female protagonist _and_ sexy, as if our heroines couldn't / shouldn't be both.)

But mostly I still think there's still some underlying resentment from some middle-aged comic book geeks who didn't grow up collecting Ms. Marvel appearances and/or considering her a main character.

I'm not saying you can't criticize the film - there are plenty of places it could have been better.

But for a middle-aged comic geek, it's one thing when FF #52s began costing more than FF # 48s -- But quite another when Marvel Superheroes # 13 start costing $5,000 in CGC 9.2.

There used to be an in-crowd aura among comic nerds -- we read and collected the source material before it was cool or mainstream. But now Hollywood dictates who the characters are in the public domain, not the original comics.

For all intents and purposes:

- Nick Fury is now black

- Black Panther is now an A-list character on par with Captain America and Thor

- Iron Man is as big as Spider-Man

- In the space of a weekend, Carol Danvers' Captain Marvel is well on her way to being a superhero as big/bigger than Doctor Strange.

(at least among the general public.)

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1 minute ago, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Is it possible to agree in principle with what you're saying, and yet still think this movie has flaws -- *including* the way the heroine is portrayed?

You're making some really solid points but, respectfully, you are definitely contributing to a polarization of this discussion in which any critique of the movie must necessarily come from a place of discomfort with female heroes if not outright misogyny.

It's not necessarily mysogny, it's sometimes just cultural... insensitivity. I was going to use a different word, but that would be offensive. See how I did that? Someone who is over 50 and still says, "That Oriental guy!" when describing a person of Southeast Asian descent isn't RACIST... even when he goes on a rant about "Back in my day we said Oriental.. it didn't matter and I fought in Korea.. blah, blah, blah..." It's just cultural insensitivity. It's not hate. So...

1. It's difficult to filter perceptions.

That's why I generally tend to read reviews by specifically educated reviewers as opposed to some cultural grifter on youtube. The more educated you are the more you can tend to see things from a clearer perspective that rises above the common Billy Bob. I don't know anyone here, really. Maybe met a few at a show here and there. But even some of those, I've heard their... perspectives... and so... no. It's difficult for me to completely believe that the vast majority of people here who give their views aren't in some way tainted by their perceptions and pre-conceived notions. 

and 2. the internet

It's also possible that we have been infiltrated by bots here on the CGC forum. Once again, I don't know you. You don't know me. We don't know anyones affiliations nor their end game goals. They could be here (and many other places) simply TO have this discussion and stir this pot and divide consensus. That is the world we live in. Or they could just be someone who's been over inundated WITH that type of propaganda to repeat it, as 'it's just my opinion."

I'm not saying any of this is YOU for your thoughts on the movie. They may be 100% pure in their view. I'm just saying in general... these are the things that unfortunately shape our world today.

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10 minutes ago, jcjames said:

I liked the movie, I didn't like Brie Larson's acting performance. So that automatically triggers people to start making race and age ad hominem attacks?

 

No, it doesn't.

10 minutes ago, jcjames said:

You don't know me so STFU with your racist stereotyping.

 

I'll post as much as I like. You don't like it? Too bad.

10 minutes ago, jcjames said:

And same to everyone else who automatically assumes that anyone who doesn't like this movie must be a racist sexist "old white dude" including the one who first interjected race into this discussion.

Sorry slugger, this is an internet discussion forum. Anyone here is able to give their views as they see it, within the guidelines of the moderation. Don't like it? Don't be a part of it. But telling people to STFU will just get you a strike. Use the ignore button. Have a fruit cup. Drink more water. 

But don't come in here with your political meme and think someone isn't going to fire back. 

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6 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

I agree with much of Chuck's post.

Mainly, that the backlash would be more muted, frankly, if Brie Larson were hotter, sexier.

 

And that assumption of other people's possible "backlash" if Brie were "hotter, sexier" is itself more misogynistic than any of the the supposed "backlash" here.

Get this - "Not everyone's negative opinion of Brie Larson is because of SEX AND RACE!"

What is wrong with people nowadays!?

 

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any notion that this wasn't going to play because of ... (whatever) has been quickly dispelled.  $1BB here she comes.  $375MM US, $175MM China, $500MM other Int'l

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Similar to a troll, please don’t feed the race baiters folks. I have 2 people on my block list, and one is a notorious race baiter on the board... I don’t regret it.

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55 minutes ago, WeR138 said:

Plenty of positive reviews in the thread. No need for name calling if some opinions aren't the same as yours.  I'm pretty sure Skypinkblu isn't a 40 year old white dude.

I’m not either. Forty-something biracial dude. Not everyone who found the movie just ok or so-so is a sexist dinosaur. I want movies with strong leads, male or female, I don’t care. Aliens is one of my favorite movies growing up in the 80’s. The new Mad Max flick is highly entertaining and a female actor steals the show from the lead. There was more “girrrl power” in every scene with Charlize than the whole Captain Marvel movie. I mean Larson had more personality in Free Fire and despite the movie not being great, I really enjoyed her in it because she put out a performance. The old white dude line is already played out.

 

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3 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

No, it doesn't.

I'll post as much as I like. You don't like it? Too bad.

Sorry slugger, this is an internet discussion forum. Anyone here is able to give their views as they see it, within the guidelines of the moderation. Don't like it? Don't be a part of it. But telling people to STFU will just get you a strike. Use the ignore button. Have a fruit cup. Drink more water. 

But don't come in here with your political meme and think someone isn't going to fire back. 

Don't tell me what to do jughead.

My "Triggered" meme was in response to the racial stereotyping (insensitivity?/hatred?) opening line ad hominem veiled insult and had nothing to do with you bub.

You don't like the meme?

Nobody cares but you.  

Get over it.

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25 minutes ago, fastballspecial said:

I agree I will never understand why some just cant be happy they are finally seeing their character at the movies.
So they made some changes. Either get over it or don't get see them. Get used to her she isn't going anywhere.

 

 

I don’t settle just because my childhood comic book characters are on screen. There isn’t a bigger Batman fan than me and when I saw the first reveal of the DKR style Batsuit I squealed like a little girl. Not really. But I did. And then.. the movie came out. You know the rest. I wanted to throat punch myself. Immediately went home and tried to erase it with a shower and repeated viewings of The Dark Knight. 

I’m pretty sure 98% of us here are not hanging in the woman-haters treehouse and don’t need to get over anything. We just want a great movie with great performances from men and women.

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7 minutes ago, Oddball said:

I’m not either. Forty-something biracial dude. Not everyone who found the movie just ok or so-so is a sexist dinosaur. I want movies with strong leads, male or female, I don’t care. Aliens is one of my favorite movies growing up in the 80’s. The new Mad Max flick is highly entertaining and a female actor steals the show from the lead. There was more “girrrl power” in every scene with Charlize than the whole Captain Marvel movie. I mean Larson had more personality in Free Fire and despite the movie not being great, I really enjoyed her in it because she put out a performance. The old white dude line is already played out.

 

Some folks like Jughead just won't accept this simple point.

And probably never will.

 

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1 hour ago, DiamondCityComics said:

My wife just told me she thought the best thing about the movie was the cat.   

:)

GMTA;)

I went to this movie with two other couples, both of the other females are strong role models themselves. I've been to most of the other comic book movies in the past 10 years with these other couples. I don't know if anyone cares, but I've loved almost every comic movie out there even Daredevil;). 

Neither of the other women I was with loved it. We all LOVED Wonder Woman. Our husbands said the same thing.

I personally don't care if Ms Marvel is purple or white or blue, it was not her that bothered me, it was the writing or maybe the directing. I don't usually look at my watch (in this case phone) during comic book movies  This time I did.

I just felt it was jumbled and I was disappointed in that. It was not because of race or gender. 

I was happy to see Colson and I cannot imagine a different Nick Fury anymore.  To me, Samuel Jackson IS Nick Fury.

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Fun facts:

1) Per the Captain Marvel Twitter feed, based on Marvel Super-heroes # 13's release date, today is Carol Danvers' 51st birthday!

2) On the day the first Avengers film was released in 2012, the going rate for Marvel Superheroes # 13 in CGC 9.2 was ~$225. Today, with her positioned to play a major role in the fourth Avengers film, a similar copy costs $5,000.

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4 minutes ago, jcjames said:

And that assumption of other people's possible "backlash" if Brie were "hotter, sexier" is itself more misogynistic than any of the the supposed "backlash" here.

Get this - "Not everyone's negative opinion of Brie Larson is because of SEX AND RACE!"

What is wrong with people nowadays!?

 

You said " meh. She ain't no Gal Gadot, ain't no Scarlett Johansen, more like a female Jeremy Renner as far as screen-presence as a Marvel Superhero actor."

In other words, Scarlett Johansen, who is certainly not known for her 'acting' ability is what? Has greater 'screen presence'?

LOL

You think one is hotter than the other. It's ok. A lot of people do. Calling it 'screen-presence' doesn't change that. She's doesn't have the 'screen presence of two Hollywood Sex Symbols. Got it. 

What were you saying about stereotyping?

Anytime Scarlet Johansen wins an Oscar for her acting ability, let me know. 

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4 minutes ago, jcjames said:

Some folks like Jughead just won't accept this simple point.

And probably never will.

 

Nowhere did I say 'everyone'.

And there are still plenty of old white dudes who troll RT obviously, so... not even close played out. 

Thanks for trying though.

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8 minutes ago, jcjames said:

Don't tell me what to do jughead.

1

You must not understand sentence structure. Once again that's why I generally stick to reviews done by people with... never mind.

8 minutes ago, jcjames said:

My "Triggered" meme was in response to the racial stereotyping (insensitivity?/hatred?) opening line ad hominem veiled insult and had nothing to do with you bub.

 

It's on a public forum, so... essentially it's open game to anyone. Do you need someone to explain to you how public forums work? It doesn't have to be me, someone here can probably help you with the idea that when you post something in the public section... it's seen by anyone... even non-members... from anywhere...

8 minutes ago, jcjames said:

You don't like the meme?

 

It's 'played out'.

8 minutes ago, jcjames said:

Nobody cares but you.  

 

No, moderation wasn't a fan of it I can assure you of that.

8 minutes ago, jcjames said:

Get over it.

Wait... let's go back to your first line: 'Don't tell me what to do jughead!"

Which, incidentally... in a sentence like that, a name would be capitalized, even a nickname or something meant as a 'dig' or whatever.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

You said " meh. She ain't no Gal Gadot, ain't no Scarlett Johansen, more like a female Jeremy Renner as far as screen-presence as a Marvel Superhero actor."

In other words, Scarlett Johansen, who is certainly not known for her 'acting' ability is what? Has greater 'screen presence'?

LOL

You think one is hotter than the other. It's ok. A lot of people do. Calling it 'screen-presence' doesn't change that. She's doesn't have the 'screen presence of two Hollywood Sex Symbols. Got it. 

What were you saying about stereotyping?

Anytime Scarlet Johansen wins an Oscar for her acting ability, let me know. 

Gal and Scarlett were interesting, funny, relatable, believable in their characters. Scarlet playing with Loki to get info was classic. Her intro in Avengers playing with the Russians was also a classic scene of her power and strength. Gal? Well too many scenes to count - plus the fact that her presence was about the only redeeming feature of BvS - which by the way was devastated by Ben Affleck's flat acting performance

So it's okay for everyone to rag on Ben Affleck's bad acting, but as soon as someone thinks Brie Larsons acting was bad, they're sexist? Brie's not AS bad as Ben but still.

Move. On. Already.

It's a big wide world and many people have many different opinions than yours and just because people have different opinions about a particular actor's acting performance doesn't make them sexist racists.

 

Again... Geez!

 

Edited by jcjames

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20 minutes ago, Oddball said:

I’m not either. Forty-something biracial dude. Not everyone who found the movie just ok or so-so is a sexist dinosaur.

 

No one said EVERYONE. That's a straw man argument.

20 minutes ago, Oddball said:

I want movies with strong leads, male or female, I don’t care. Aliens is one of my favorite movies growing up in the 80’s. The new Mad Max flick is highly entertaining and a female actor steals the show from the lead. There was more “girrrl power” in every scene with Charlize than the whole Captain Marvel movie. I mean Larson had more personality in Free Fire and despite the movie not being great, I really enjoyed her in it because she put out a performance. The old white dude line is already played out.

3

I hear ya. Just a question though. Why didn't anyone complain about Captain America's reserved nature throughout his entire Marvel output? Does he have to go wild to be a strong character? Or is that just female characters?

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1 minute ago, Chuck Gower said:

No one said EVERYONE. That's a straw man argument.

I hear ya. Just a question though. Why didn't anyone complain about Captain America's reserved nature throughout his entire Marvel output? Does he have to go wild to be a strong character? Or is that just female characters?

The best performances don't involve "going wild".

They involve making the audience believe.

I saw Chris Evans, Gal Gadot, Scarlett Johansen,Chadwick Boseman, RDJ and their ACTING made me believe and accept their characters. NONE of them struggled with creating believably.

Like I said in my first post - I could "see" Brie struggling to act. When you can see the acting rather than the character, that's where they lose the performance.

There was actually a movie with Robert DeNiro (can't remember which one) where he was terrible in it because you could see he was just going through the motions. He didn't make me believe he was the character being portrayed. His performance was bad. DeNiro!

My critique of Brie Larson in CM is NOT about her "hotness" (like you assume) - it's about the performance. It was Brie Larson trying to act like Carol Danvers/Capt. Marvel. Maybe she'll be better with Avengers Endgame. Maybe her -script didn't give her the chance to show her character. Or maybe she just wasn't convincing as an actor.

 

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3 minutes ago, jcjames said:

Gal and Scarlett were interesting, funny, relatable, believable in their characters. Scarlet playing with Loki to get info was classic. Her intro in Avengers playing with the Russians was also a classic scene of her power and strength. Gal? Well too many scenes to count - plus the fact that her presence was about the only redeeming feature of BvS - which by the way was devastated by Ben Affleck's flat acting performance

So it's okay for everyone to rag on Ben Affleck's bad acting, but as soon as someone thinks Brie Larsons acting was bad, they're sexist? Brie's not AS bad as Ben but still.

Move. On. Already.

It's a big wide world and many people have many different opinions than yours and just because people have different opinions about a particular actor's acting performance doesn't make them sexist racists.

 

Again... Geez!

 

In all seriousness... no one is saying YOU are a sexist or a racist. That's YOU projecting it upon yourself. I'm simply asking questions and making observations and then you throw that political meme into the middle of things.

You think in your mind that all it is - is just a difference in... screen presence. Hey, you're entitled to that. It's all good. I can't TELL you what to think otherwise. What's in your heart and mind is what's there and no one knows but you and whatever personally accepted diety you abide by.

Me? I think most 40+ year old people would like the character better if she had bigger, and more noticeable breasts, smiled more, and had cuter lines.And if she hadn't said that stuff before the movie. I'm entitled to that belief as well. 

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