CAPTAIN MARVEL starring Brie Larson (3/8/19)
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Posted (edited)

I went to the movie yesterday with my family and some couple friends.  The general reception was positive.  Just one friend did not like it.  I thought it was below Marvel's usually high standards.  Definitely in the bottom of the Marvel movies for me, somewhere around Iron Man 3.

 

First the good.  I had no problems with Brie Larson and thought she made a great Captain Marvel.  I like what they did with the Kree.  I thought the setup for Avengers Endgame was decent.  I liked that Monica Rambeau was introduced in this movie.

Unfortunately, the bad outweighed the good for me.  Captain Marvel's powers are poorly defined.  I left the movie thinking the character is more powerful than Superman.  Of course she will be instrumental in beating Thanos, she is nigh invulnerable.

I think Marvel squandered an opportunity with the Skrulls.  I felt they were as much of a joke as Mandarin was in Iron Man 3.  I hated what they did with the Mandarin and it would have been better NOT to use the character than do what they did with that classic Iron Man villain.  General audiences won't care but as a fan of these characters, these Skrulls were an unwelcome addition to the MCU.  Not only were they played as a joke (did the main Skrull have an Aussie accent?) but they looked ridiculous.  The Skrulls were done with TV quality effects ala something you would have seen on Buffy the Vampire Slayer 15 years ago or Star Trek Next Generation even before that.

Nick Fury was completely out of character through most of this movie.  His reaction to just about every event was unbelievable and the whole time I kept thinking "this is the leader of SHIELD?"  Especially cringe-worthy is his interaction with the cat and how quickly he goes along with the plan to go to space with the Skrull leader.

I also wasn't a fan of the pacing and "retro" style of the movie direction.  At points they were trying to channel a 1970s cop show vibe that felt awkward.  There was too much dead time in certain scenes and the earth locations were ... boring.

I honestly don't think this movie is going to hold up well as the years go by and I expect fan reaction to it will be on par with what we see for Iron Man 3.  Most Marvel movies are re-watchable, but this one, unfortunately, won't be.

I wanted to enjoy this movie.  The male Kree Captain Marvel is one of my favorite Marvel characters and I'm a huge fan of Marvel's galactic heroes.  I grew up reading Carol Danvers as Ms Marvel.  There was so much I should have like here.  Luckily, my dislike of this movie won't ruin my expectations for Avengers Endgame, because I did like the actress and the character.  It is just unfortunate about the story, pacing, and butchering of classic FF villains.

Edited by rjrjr

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8 minutes ago, rjrjr said:

I went to the movie yesterday with my family and some couple friends.  The general reception was positive.  Just one friend did not like it.  I thought it was below Marvel's usually high standards.  Definitely in the bottom of the Marvel movies for me, somewhere around Iron Man 3.

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First the good.  I had no problems with Brie Larson and thought she made a great Captain Marvel.  I like what they did with the Kree.  I thought the setup for Avengers Endgame was decent.  I liked that Monica Rambeau was introduced in this movie.

Unfortunately, the bad outweighed the good for me.  Captain Marvel's powers are poorly defined.  I left the movie thinking the character is more powerful than Superman.  Of course she will be instrumental in beating Thanos, she is nigh invulnerable.

I think Marvel squandered an opportunity with the Skrulls.  I felt they were as much of a joke as Mandarin was in Iron Man 3.  I hated what they did with the Mandarin and it would have been better NOT to use the character than do what they did with that classic Iron Man villain.  General audiences won't care but as a fan of these characters, these Skrulls were an unwelcome addition to the MCU.  Not only were they played as a joke (did the main Skrull have an Aussie accent?) but they looked ridiculous.  The Skrulls were done with TV quality effects ala something you would have seen on Buffy the Vampire Slayer 15 years ago or Star Trek Next Generation even before that.

Nick Fury was completely out of character through most of this movie.  His reaction to just about every event was unbelievable and the whole time I kept thinking "this is the leader of SHIELD?"  Especially cringe-worthy is his interaction with the cat and how quickly he goes along with the plan to go to space with the Skrull leader.

I also wasn't a fan of the pacing and "retro" style of the movie direction.  At points they were trying to channel a 1970s cop show vibe that felt awkward.  There was too much dead time in certain scenes and the earth locations were ... boring.

I honestly don't think this movie is going to hold up well as the years go by and I expect fan reaction to it will be on par with what we see for Iron Man 3.  Most Marvel movies are re-watchable, but this one, unfortunately, won't be.

I wanted to enjoy this movie.  The male Kree Captain Marvel is one of my favorite Marvel characters and I'm a huge fan of Marvel's galactic heroes.  I grew up reading Carol Danvers as Ms Marvel.  There was so much I should have like here.  Luckily, my dislike of this movie won't ruin my expectations for Avengers Endgame, because I did like the actress and the character.  It is just unfortunate about the story, pacing, and butchering of classic FF villains.

Did you also find the direction kinda flat? To me the camera angles, pacing, etc just did not seem to build any tension.  Also the fight scenes seemed competent, not exciting. I never felt anyone was every in any real danger.  Some of that was likely due to prequelitis.  It is always hard to build and sustain stakes when you know the characters, and the planet are just fine 20 years later.  From a visual standpoint it was good, but felt right out of the earlier MCU playbook, not original. This was part of my reaction, since the later MCU movies have managed to develop nuanced styles that vary from movie to movie, and character to character. Never felt that here.

I am sticking by my 6/10.

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10 minutes ago, drotto said:

Did you also find the direction kinda flat? To me the camera angles, pacing, etc just did not seem to build any tension.  Also the fight scenes seemed competent, not exciting. I never felt anyone was every in any real danger.  Some of that was likely due to prequelitis.  It is always hard to build and sustain stakes when you know the characters, and the planet are just fine 20 years later.  From a visual standpoint it was good, but felt right out of the earlier MCU playbook, not original. This was part of my reaction, since the later MCU movies have managed to develop nuanced styles that vary from movie to movie, and character to character. Never felt that here.

I am sticking by my 6/10.

I thought they were attempting a throwback to a 70s style of directing and it did fall flat to me.  One of the bigger problem I had with the fight scenes was I didn't understand Captain Marvel's powers.  Hulk is strong, Captain America has strength and uses the shield, Thor has strength and uses the hammer, Iron Man has flight and repulsors,  etc.  Captain Marvel is ... strong, has glowing hands, and can punches hard; can blasts things from a distance; turns into some sort of flaming character in space (does she do this in the comics?); can heat up things by touching them, is yet another Marvel character with a super-powered suit (probably my biggest complaint with the MCU), etc.  It really felt all over the map.  She is basically Superman plus.  There was no tension or sense of danger because she is invulnerable.

I think 6/10 is fair.  I would have said 5/10 personally.  TBH, I wish I had not grown up reading comic books, because I would probably enjoy these movies more. :(

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Oh, I did have one question:

Which Tesseract did Mar-vell have?  Have we seen it in the Marvel movies before?  After umpteen movies, I lost track of which Tesseract came from where and was in who's possession.

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, rjrjr said:

I thought they were attempting a throwback to a 70s style of directing and it did fall flat to me.  One of the bigger problem I had with the fight scenes was I didn't understand Captain Marvel's powers.  Hulk is strong, Captain America has strength and uses the shield, Thor has strength and uses the hammer, Iron Man has flight and repulsors,  etc.  Captain Marvel is ... strong, has glowing hands, and can punches hard; can blasts things from a distance; turns into some sort of flaming character in space (does she do this in the comics?); can heat up things by touching them, is yet another Marvel character with a super-powered suit (probably my biggest complaint with the MCU), etc.  It really felt all over the map.  She is basically Superman plus.  There was no tension or sense of danger because she is invulnerable.

I think 6/10 is fair.  I would have said 5/10 personally.  TBH, I wish I had not grown up reading comic books, because I would probably enjoy these movies more. :(

I see your criticism of not explaining her power, I personally felt like they were self explanatory to a degree, but there were just so many of them, so you comparison to Superman is justified. I am not sure they truly established she is invulnerable, since multiple characters do hit her hard, and she does bleed.  However, they do fail to establish what her upper limits are, or put her power level in proper context.  For me personally, I do not like having a MCU Superman.  I have always felt he was overpowered in the DCU to the point of making the character and his stories less interesting, and was glad that the MCU had avoided that issue so far.

 

Since the MCU has not had a Superman power level hero yet, and am not sure how it will adapt to having one now.  It tends to create problems from a story standpoint, when you are constantly having to establish even bigger threats and even more powerful villains.  I liked that the MCU did not have ultra powerful characters, for that vary reason.  Having characters with weakness and limitations aided the story creating more tension, struggle, and interesting character arcs.  When they succeed it creates more of a feeling a triumph, like when the Avengers ultimately win in Endgame (whatever form that may take), it will feel more triumphant because they failed first. It felt like the MCU had purposely avoided having overpowered characters thus far, to the point that some fans have complained Thor and Hulk are under-powered. Now that has been profoundly altered, and it will change the stories they tell and how they are told. If it has the Superman effect, I fear I will find the next phase less enjoyable.

 

Spoiler

As an example in the final battle she stopped 3 Kree warships without breaking a sweat or even being challenged.  Seems kinda board while doing it.  It was very perfunctory, and predictable. She then stared them down till the ran away.  I do not want that to be the MCU going farward.

 

Edited by drotto

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, drotto said:

I see your criticism of not explaining her power, I personally felt like they were self explanatory to a degree, but there were just so many of them, so you comparison to Superman is justified. I am not sure they truly established she is invulnerable, since multiple characters do hit her hard, and she does bleed.  However, they do fail to establish what her upper limits are, or put her power level in proper context.  For me personally, I do not like having a MCU Superman.  I have always felt he was overpowered in the DCU to the point of making the character and his stories less interesting, and was glad that the MCU had avoided that issue so far.

 

Since the MCU has not had a Superman power level hero yet, and am not sure how it will adapt to having one now.  It tends to create problems from a story standpoint, when you are constantly having to establish even bigger threats and even more powerful villains.  I liked that the MCU did not have ultra powerful characters, for that vary reason.  Having characters with weakness and limitations aided the story creating more tension, struggle, and interesting character arcs.  When they succeed it creates more of a feeling a triumph, like when the Avengers ultimately win in Endgame (whatever form that may take), it will feel more triumphant because they failed first. It felt like the MCU had purposely avoided having overpowered characters thus far, to the point that some fans have complained Thor and Hulk are under-powered. Now that has been profoundly altered, and it will change the stories they tell and how they are told. If it has the Superman effect, I fear I will find the next phase less enjoyable.

 

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As an example in the final battle she stopped 3 Kree warships without breaking a sweat or even being challenged.  Seems kinda board while doing it.  It was very perfunctory, and predictable. She then stared them down till the ran away.  I do not want that to be the MCU going farward.

 

I do see you’re point here, and it’s a fair criticism- the story didn’t allow time to delve into how much of a limit the Kree power dampener put on her powers. We don’t know their limits, their duration, if they become depleted or fatigued. But I didn’t see her do anything that I would ascribe to Superman level power. To me, what the audience saw was the equivalent of the Silver Surfer or a comparable herald of Galactus.

If the MCU has future story writing challenges for A level powered heroes it’s nothing we haven’t seen before. Look at Thor in Infinity War and what he endured to forge his new hammer. The Hulk is in the same class as well. I think what’s difficult to wrap ones mind around is precisely what “cosmic powers “ really are.  I think the MCU did attempt to ground Danvers in a more relatable way in describing how she got her powers- but Cosmic power has always been a bit too vague, starting with the Surfer and continued with Starlin’s contributions with CM, Thanos, and Warlock. 

The last 10 years of the MCU have been about assembling the Infinity Stones (more cosmic gibberish) For the MCU to enter the next phase they almost have to reboot not just because the first generation of actors are moving on, but because they will need to dial it back a few notches to tell decent stories that are relatable to audiences. However Endgame plays out I expect it will involve resetting the escalating cosmic power levels and dispensing with the infinity stones in some way.  Who knows, maybe the MCU Captain Marvel is destined to follow the comics and she gets cancer and dies saving the Universe. Don’t put it passed Feige to pull a fast one- especially after the way Jane Foster as Thor followed a similar storyline - the MCU is famous for mashups of old and new comic stories.

Edited by MYNAMEISLEGION

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Yeah, I don't understand the confusion with her powers, it's a Superhero movie. No one really understands the reality of any of it, because it's ALL a fantasy story, no matter how much they try to explain it. How is it the madder Hulk gets, the stronger he gets? Where does Thor get the power to withstand what he did to forge a new hammer? How can human Peter Quill hold an Infinity Stone in his hand? How does Spider-man and Black Panther fall from a car driving 80 mph, hit the concrete road and roll for 100 yards and get right back up? How does Iron Man not get a concussion falling a 20,000 of feet and crashing? And what really is a repulsor blast, and why isn't it explained? And Doctor Strange... can someone explain to me how 'magic' can make those things come out of his hands and do all of that?

Carol Danvers absorbed the power of an Infinity Stone. It does cool stuff. Same as all of the other heroes.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, drotto said:

I have my worries that the MCU is positioning her as the center of the MCU moving forward.  Based on just this movie, I do not think that the character has the charisma or likability to pull it off.

 

Plenty of others DO.

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As has been stated in this thread Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America play so well off one another, and ooze charisma (especially Iron Man). They are going to be extremely difficult to replace, and at this point Captain Marvel is not going to do it for me.

For long time comic book fans - the smallest, tiniest part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe's audience - it will seem weird. But they've had all new Star Trek TV series' with completely new characters and (mostly) managed to make it work (despite old fans whining at first) and even a complete reboot of the original series and managed to make it work (despite old fans whining). 

Multi-Billion Dollar movie studios will wring every penny out of ANY of these 'properties' they can, regardless of how much anyone loves the machismo posturing of RDJ and Chris Evans.  No one even knows if they're going to 'replace' those characters or not. My feeling is, we'll continue to see ALL of these characters in some form until the day they die (ala Carrie Fisher in Star Wars)

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 I also stand by my way earlier comment, that I will be upset if she is the key or actual Character that takes down Thanos. I still feel  like that will cheapen the previous 10 years.

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No one had a problem when they thought Thor was going to be the one to bring Thanos down on his own in the movie. No one thought that'd be cheap. But the truth is, It'll be the combined force of all of the heroes that bring down Thanos. From a writing perspective, that's just how it's all being set up.

Edited by Chuck Gower

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Where does Thor get the power to withstand what he did to forge a new hammer? How can human Peter Quill hold an Infinity Stone in his hand? How does Spider-man and Black Panther fall from a car driving 80 mph, hit the concrete road and roll for 100 yards and get right back up? How does Iron Man not get a concussion falling a 20,000 of feet and crashing?

To quote Kav, Plot Armour.  Or, armor

Even he gave up on the exact science.

Edited by Ken Aldred

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5 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

To quote Kav, Plot Armour.  Or, armor

Even he gave up on the exact science.

Exactly. All of it acceptable for... THOSE characters.

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37 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Exactly. All of it acceptable for... THOSE characters.

This I never understood about Iron Man, if he dropped 20,000 feet his internal organs would be squished regardless of the armor.

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On 3/16/2019 at 6:42 AM, ComicConnoisseur said:

I agree. I found her humorous and very witty in the interview. I like her more now than ever.

 

I completely forgot she was in Kong: Skull Island with Mace Windu and Loki until I heard her mention it in that interview.

kong-skull-island-official-pictures-011.

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Saw it this weekend. Was a decent film and would definitely watch again.  It fills in some holes and I had to be reminded where we first see the Tesseract in the modern timeline so now we know exactly how Fury came into possession. As far as Brie Larson I thought she did ok. I’ve never seen her in anything before and her comments before the films release don’t matter to me one way or the other.  I put it about mid-level for an MCU film. 

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1 hour ago, Chuck Gower said:

How can human Peter Quill hold an Infinity Stone in his hand?

This may be your 'Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor' reflection. :baiting: 

Throughout Guardians, it is hinted Peter's father was not of the Earth, making him different. Even his mother's description of him made it clear this was an off-world being. That final scene with Peter holding the Infinity Stone confirmed all the plot buildup to the final reveal. Though that dance-off moment takes you out of the intensity of the scene.

I so enjoy this film. So much to appreciate and reflect on. <3

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11 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

I completely forgot she was in Kong: Skull Island with Mace Windu and Loki until I heard her mention it in that interview.

kong-skull-island-official-pictures-011.

This has come up a few times in articles about this movie linking Sam Jackson, Tom Hiddleston. Even calling it a prequel to the Nick Fury-Carol Danvers partnership. I wonder if it helped confirm this would be a very fitting team-up?

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

This may be your 'Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor' reflection. :baiting: 

 

LOL I like the reference, but I actually knew the answer. I asked for a specific reason:

Quote

Throughout Guardians, it is hinted Peter's father was not of the Earth, making him different. Even his mother's description of him made it clear this was an off-world being. That final scene with Peter holding the Infinity Stone confirmed all the plot buildup to the final reveal. Though that dance-off moment takes you out of the intensity of the scene.

I so enjoy this film. So much to appreciate and reflect on. <3

Exactly. But it's not explained. It's hinted at. We had a movie, where a character is CLEARLY been given plot armor (or Armour) and no one lost their minds over it. And we had to wait until a whole new movie came out to know for sure! 

Captain Marvel is a movie that hints at what her powers are. We may have to wait for a whole new movie to know.

Edited by Chuck Gower

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7 hours ago, rjrjr said:

Which Tesseract did Mar-vell have?  Have we seen it in the Marvel movies before?  After umpteen movies, I lost track of which Tesseract came from where and was in who's possession.

Same Tesseract as we've already seen in half of the Marvel movies already.  Apparently Mar-vell somehow had it in the 90s.

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1 minute ago, fantastic_four said:

Same Tesseract as we've already seen in half of the Marvel movies already.  Apparently Mar-vell somehow had it in the 90s.

After Howard Stark discovers it (while searching for Steve Rogers - it fell into the ocean during the final battle with the Red Skull), he creates Project Pegasus with SHIELD, NASA and the USAF. Mar-vell apparently tracked the energy to earth - assumed the identity of a scientist, and became a part of the project.

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2 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Exactly. But it's not explained. It's hinted at. We had a movie, where a character is CLEARLY been given plot armor (or Armour) and no one lost their minds over it. And we had to wait until a whole new movie came out to know for sure! 

Captain Marvel is a movie that hints at what her powers are. We may have to wait for a whole new movie to know the extent of them are. 

I wonder if it is because they did drop so many hints throughout Guardians Peter was not 100% human, this made it more acceptable. Even with Yondu talking about the contract with his father.

It could even be because Carol is so distant and reserved throughout much of the film, there isn't as strong an emotional connection yet with her compared to Peter's extrovert characteristics through Guardians you couldn't help but like him, and know him immediately.

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