August Heritage Auction

[Bronty]

I'm naive on this market as well, but I'm thinking double that. 300-350k?

 

Its on the short list of most desirable wrightson works in existence

 

I wanna see a scan before I put down a firm number what i think

 

I'll look forward to Scott and some of the others joining the discussion but look at the heritage data points.

 

Is it better than TOS 84 and ASM 62 and ASM 98 covers at about 175k ea? In my mind no question.

 

ASM 121 @ 280k or so? Ouch, that's starting to be a fair fight. The ST is better but the ASM is marvel. Give the edge to the ST.

 

Better than GL 76 at 450k? IMO no chance.

 

So to me that says 250k as a floor and 400k as a ceiling.

 

Buttquote. Patent pending.

[batman_fan]

I'm naive on this market as well, but I'm thinking double that. 300-350k?

 

Its on the short list of most desirable wrightson works in existence

 

I wanna see a scan before I put down a firm number what i think

 

I'll look forward to Scott and some of the others joining the discussion but look at the heritage data points.

 

Is it better than TOS 84 and ASM 62 and ASM 98 covers at about 175k ea? In my mind no question.

 

ASM 121 @ 280k or so? Ouch, that's starting to be a fair fight. The ST is better but the ASM is marvel. Give the edge to the ST.

 

Better than GL 76 at 450k? IMO no chance.

 

So to me that says 250k as a floor and 400k as a ceiling.

 

Buttquote. Patent pending.

 

I actually like the logic behind your estimate.

[delekkerste]

I'm naive on this market as well, but I'm thinking double that. 300-350k?

 

Its on the short list of most desirable wrightson works in existence

 

I wanna see a scan before I put down a firm number what i think

 

I'll look forward to Scott and some of the others joining the discussion but look at the heritage data points.

 

Is it better than TOS 84 and ASM 62 and ASM 98 covers at about 175k ea? In my mind no question.

 

ASM 121 @ 280k or so? Ouch, that's starting to be a fair fight. The ST is better but the ASM is marvel. Give the edge to the ST.

 

Better than GL 76 at 450k? IMO no chance.

 

So to me that says 250k as a floor and 400k as a ceiling.

 

Buttquote. Patent pending.

 

Obviously two determined bidders could take this one wherever, but I personally don't see $250-$400K. For me, even though he's still just a prototype in it, it's HOS 92 that is the "AF15" equivalent for Swamp Thing, and that is the one that would fetch the kind of money (possibly more) that you're talking about. Not only because of its significance, but because it is so well-drawn and iconic. To me, the ST 1 is neither the best nor the most memorable cover from the ST volume 1 run. It's just the first one, which will get a premium, to be sure, but I don't think to the extent you're ascribing.

 

Like I said, this one could end up anywhere, but, personally, I think it should go $150-$180K. I mean, I'd take either the XM 95 ($155K) or the ASM 98 ($179K) covers any day over this one, though I can see how the more art-oriented (vs. nostalgia-oriented) guys in the hobby (like Scott W.) would prefer this one. That said, to me, ASM 121 and GL 76 are unquestionably both in a totally different category than this one - those are covers to very key, historic books drawn by two indisputably A-list artists. HOS 92 would compare favorably vs. those two, but ST 1...no way in my book.

 

I love that Special Series 2 cover image as well, but would be surprised if it gets to $150K given that it's the cover to a later reprint book and is not part of the main run. While there are exceptions to the rule, and maybe this is one of them given the greater focus on art vs. nostalgia, generally speaking, out of the main title for a character usually means a lower valuation.

[buyatari]

The high volume of Wrightson work coming to market should have an impact on the price of ST1.

How could it not?

 

Beautiful cover but I see an ending price closer to that of the Xmen 95. If I had the pick of the two I would take the Xmen 95. Though some did argue the Xmen 95 sold for less than it should have.

 

 

[buyatari]

That said, to me, ASM 121 and GL 76 are unquestionably both in a totally different category than this one - those are covers to very key, historic books drawn by two indisputably A-list artists. HOS 92 would compare favorably vs. those two, but ST 1...no way in my book.

 

Do collectors really consider Romita an indisputable A-list artist?

If Romita had done his time with Swamp Thing and/or Green Lantern instead of the hottest book on the planet would he be as highly sought after ?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic and really want to know if he is that highly thought of. I had always thought of him as the Ringo Starr of comics. He landed the perfect job at the right place and the right time.

[Bronty]

Thanks for your thoughts Gene.

 

Just for the record I wasn't suggesting 150 on the special series, but I do think it will crack 100? (butt quote).

 

I get what you are saying on the st 1 cover and perhaps I need to temper enthusiasm but I think it's better than the 180k examples. Xmen 95 does give me pause so I see your point but that cover I thought was relatively well bought plus it has no wolverine doncha know. I guess it could go either way and maybe thinking it will crack 3 is pie in the sky but I still think it's sure to crack 2

[tth2]

Do collectors really consider Romita an indisputable A-list artist?

If Romita had done his time with Swamp Thing and/or Green Lantern instead of the hottest book on the planet would he be as highly sought after ?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic and really want to know if he is that highly thought of. I had always thought of him as the Ringo Starr of comics. He landed the perfect job at the right place and the right time.

I'm not the only one who thinks this!

[Bronty]

+5000

[Nexus]

Do collectors really consider Romita an indisputable A-list artist?

If Romita had done his time with Swamp Thing and/or Green Lantern instead of the hottest book on the planet would he be as highly sought after ?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic and really want to know if he is that highly thought of. I had always thought of him as the Ringo Starr of comics. He landed the perfect job at the right place and the right time.

I'm not the only one who thinks this!

 

+2. Won't go so far as to call him Ringo, but definitely lucked out with the gig.

[Nexus]

As for ST #1...definitely BSD bait, more than any of the other Wrightson offerings, and we'll just have to wait and see where the top dogs take it. I'm going to take the under on $250K, though.

 

HA pulling this out right after Profiles puts ST #4 on their catalog cover reminds me of the Milton Berle/Forrest Tucker story (Google it)...HA pulled out just enough to win.

[batman_fan]

Do collectors really consider Romita an indisputable A-list artist?

If Romita had done his time with Swamp Thing and/or Green Lantern instead of the hottest book on the planet would he be as highly sought after ?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic and really want to know if he is that highly thought of. I had always thought of him as the Ringo Starr of comics. He landed the perfect job at the right place and the right time.

I'm not the only one who thinks this!

 

+2. Won't go so far as to call him Ringo, but definitely lucked out with the gig.

 

I think he did a great job on Spiderman (as well as the other titles he worked on). I definitely put him in the "A" category.

[Bronty]

B- for me. Not enough of his art stands out visually and he certainly doesn't make up for it with expressiveness or design or what have you. Its bland. It's good capable work but very very little of it wows me.

[delekkerste]

That said, to me, ASM 121 and GL 76 are unquestionably both in a totally different category than this one - those are covers to very key, historic books drawn by two indisputably A-list artists. HOS 92 would compare favorably vs. those two, but ST 1...no way in my book.

 

Do collectors really consider Romita an indisputable A-list artist?

If Romita had done his time with Swamp Thing and/or Green Lantern instead of the hottest book on the planet would he be as highly sought after ?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic and really want to know if he is that highly thought of. I had always thought of him as the Ringo Starr of comics. He landed the perfect job at the right place and the right time.

 

Well, I think a lot of artists wouldn't be as highly sought after if they had toiled away on a third-tier title like Swamp Thing instead of their signature run. In any case, I'm not saying that people should view Romita as having the artistic chops of an Adams or Wrightson, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to deny him A-list status on the basis of his ASM work alone. Romita ASM is unquestionably one of the gold standards of the hobby and, for me, something like a Swamp Thing #1, though nice, just doesn't have as much importance/gravitas as a Romita ASM cover to one of the most memorable and key issues in Marvel's history. I think ST #1's desirability is closer to X-Men #95 (ST 1 is better drawn, but far less popular), and I'm sure there are many people who would take XM 95 or ASM 98 or a large art Romita ASM or Kirby JIM cover (all in the $150-$180K range) over ST 1.

 

There have also been fairly recent private sales in the $150-$180K range of pieces that would very likely have most people, even the art-first, nostalgia-second crowd, agreeing that the ST #1 cover should not be worth more than those examples.

[delekkerste]

B- for me. Not enough of his art stands out visually and he certainly doesn't make up for it with expressiveness or design or what have you. Its bland. It's good capable work but very very little of it wows me.

 

Yeah, but artistic chops are no more the sole determinant of whether one is on the comic art A-list than acting chops determine whether you are on the Hollywood A-list. You may think that John Romita is the Keanu Reeves of comic book artists, but that doesn't mean that he's not firmly on the A-list given the popularity and bankability of his ASM work alone.

[Nexus]

Do collectors really consider Romita an indisputable A-list artist?

If Romita had done his time with Swamp Thing and/or Green Lantern instead of the hottest book on the planet would he be as highly sought after ?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic and really want to know if he is that highly thought of. I had always thought of him as the Ringo Starr of comics. He landed the perfect job at the right place and the right time.

I'm not the only one who thinks this!

 

+2. Won't go so far as to call him Ringo, but definitely lucked out with the gig.

 

I think he did a great job on Spiderman (as well as the other titles he worked on). I definitely put him in the "A" category.

 

I would agree that he was good on Spidey, but if he never got the gig, we wouldn't be having this debate.

[batman_fan]

Do collectors really consider Romita an indisputable A-list artist?

If Romita had done his time with Swamp Thing and/or Green Lantern instead of the hottest book on the planet would he be as highly sought after ?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic and really want to know if he is that highly thought of. I had always thought of him as the Ringo Starr of comics. He landed the perfect job at the right place and the right time.

I'm not the only one who thinks this!

 

+2. Won't go so far as to call him Ringo, but definitely lucked out with the gig.

 

I think he did a great job on Spiderman (as well as the other titles he worked on). I definitely put him in the "A" category.

 

I would agree that he was good on Spidey, but if he never got the gig, we wouldn't be having this debate.

 

I don't know, his work on Daredevil and Captain America are really nice as well.

[delekkerste]

I would agree that he was good on Spidey, but if he never got the gig, we wouldn't be having this debate.

 

In an alternate universe, Romita never gets the ASM gig and ends up being regarded by history as a talented, but second-tier artist. In that same universe, Sean Connery gets passed over for James Bond and Pete Best stays with the Beatles...

 

Meanwhile, in our universe, Romita gets the ASM gig and cements his status as an A-list comic book artist, Sean Connery gets 007, a knighthood and worldwide lasting fame, and Richard Starkey becomes Ringo Starr and one-quarter of one of the most beloved and respected musical acts in history!

[Bronty]

But that's the whole point buyatari was making. Some artists are transcendent talents that would have made it big no matter what gig they were working (in their heyday - frank Miller, Neal Adams, etc) and some who only made it big because of the gig they had (romita, and as much as I hate to say it ditko, etc).

 

And then a rare few have both the enormous talent and the right gig at the same time (Kirby).

 

Romita is very much someone made by his gig rather than by a surpassing talent. Now, as you say, none of that takes him off the A list, but judged on his talents alone he's "just" good... unremarkable.

[jaybuck43]

I would agree that he was good on Spidey, but if he never got the gig, we wouldn't be having this debate.

 

In an alternate universe, Romita never gets the ASM gig and ends up being regarded by history as a talented, but second-tier artist. In that same universe, Sean Connery gets passed over for James Bond and Pete Best stays with the Beatles...

 

Meanwhile, in our universe, Romita gets the ASM gig and cements his status as an A-list comic book artist, Sean Connery gets 007, a knighthood and worldwide lasting fame, and Richard Starkey becomes Ringo Starr and one-quarter of one of the most beloved and respected musical acts in history!

 

[spider9698]

As for ST #1...definitely BSD bait, more than any of the other Wrightson offerings, and we'll just have to wait and see where the top dogs take it. I'm going to take the under on $250K, though.

 

HA pulling this out right after Profiles puts ST #4 on their catalog cover reminds me of the Milton Berle/Forrest Tucker story (Google it)...HA pulled out just enough to win.

 

I am now calling Heritage the "Uncle Miltie" of auction houses.