Cap 1 vs Marvel 1 Which would you rather own and y? 2 2

[Ken Aldred]

Captain America has always been one of my favourite characters, ever since I read a British black-and-white reprint of Avengers 4 in the early 70s. So, Captain America Comics 1 always appealed to me much, much more as an ultimate (unattainable) grail key. Regardless of historical significance, Marvel Comics 1 has always left me cold in a direct comparison as I don't have anywhere near the same level of emotional connection to the characters inside. Very nice-looking book in hand, though.

[Ameri]

I voted for Cap 1 for the simple fact it introduced the most popular GA character for Timely/Marvel. I look at Marvel Comics #1 as the same as Detective #1 or one of the other pre-superhero "first" DC books - they hit the stands first but it was Action #1 and Tec #27 that had the 1st appearances that matter.

 

Not too sure how you can equate Marvel Comics #1 with Detective #1. Marvel Comics #1 had Torch and Subby...Detective #1 had....

 

Because the comparison is apt. Johnny Storm is the "Human Torch" that everyone knows today, and MC 1 isn't Subby's first appearance (MPFW).

 

It's apt because you defy logic with your bias (why, I have yet to entirely figure out) and are constantly trying to build a position to fit your argument.

 

Green Lantern, The Flash etc all had different alter egos between GA and SA. They're still GL and the Flash and their key 1st appearances are still important.

 

Marvel did have Subby, Human Torch, the Angel and Kazar and while none are considered A list material right now (and that is mostly because the FF franchise has been cancelled by Marvel due to a movie rights battle) the Torch (both the android and Johhny) and Subby were mainstays at Marvel for decades starting in FF #4 through to the copper age. I'd call them B+ characters as they were heavily involved in the Marvel universe.

 

And the Torch and Subby were A list material during the GA.

 

As far as it being Subby's 1st appearance, nobody actually knows (and this coming from someone who is a fan and former owner of MPFW #1 and Marvel Comics #1). There is no clear proof as to whether MPFW #1 was ever distributed as the only known examples to ever be found were all from the estate of Lloyd Jacquet so it is more than likely that they were just trial books that never made it the public. If so, they were be akin to an ashcan (although they weren't ashcans).

 

 

So when I state the basis for my logic you call it "bias", but when you do it's..... "facts"?

 

Whether or not you agree with it, Subby's first appearance isn't MC 1. Nor is it Ka-zar's first appearance. A character named "human torch" first appeared in it, but has since been essentially lost to time and replaced by an entirely different character, 50+ years ago, that happens to have the same hero name.

 

I suppose Angel first appeared in MC 1, but that doesn't really score you any "relevance points".

 

No such vagaries exist with Cap 1. It's a clear cut win- first hero appearance , first nemesis appearance (and overall major Marvel Universe villain), first sidekick , classic cover, #1 issue, etc. His GA appearance wasessentially as he is today, much like Bats and Supes.

 

The biggest thing MC 1 has going for it is the biggest thing Tec 1 has going for it-the first books of their respective publishers.

 

And that's still pretty cool! Just not as cool.

 

It's no wonder Cap handily won the poll.

 

-J.

 

You state that DC is the first book form that publisher but it isn't.

 

You state that the characters in Marvel #1 are irrelevant but that wasn't the case through the 60's, 70's, 80's or 90's. It only became the case after the FF Movie rights were sold and the movies bombed.

 

There's a reason Marvel #1 was the most valuable book in the OSPG.

 

Cap #1 is 'more popular' than Marvel #1 for exactly the same reason that AF #15 is more popular than FF #1. Movies and people not knowing the past or getting into comics but never having read them.

 

And historical significance doesn't change. Popularity does.

 

Popularity is also based on whether the collector owns the book... or not.

[Ameri]

If there was no Marvel 1, there would be no Timely and no Cap 1. At the very least, both books deserve even credit.

[VintageComics]

Popularity is also based on whether the collector owns the book... or not.

 

Yep.

[Jaydogrules]

Popularity is also based on whether the collector owns the book... or not.

 

Yep.

 

....kind of an obvious statement since most collectors will buy what they like. And evidently, more people like Cap.

 

They also seem to like Batman a bit more than Superman as well:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9361349&fpart=1

 

The times, they be a-changin'.

 

-J

 

[Ameri]

Not so obvious. People may like something but they can't always acquire it due to scarcity. For every ten Cap 1s that pop up, maybe one Marvel 1 surfaces. That doesn't mean that people will "settle" for a Cap 1 because there's no Marvel 1, but it creates a perception of popularity that may not be entirely accurate. The Superman/Batman thing is a good analogy. People like Batman more because the character has been handled better than Superman over the years. More interesting villains, better movies, Neal Adams, etc... but without Superman, there would have been no Batman. The Captain America thing is the same. Popularity is important but history and precedence is also important. Depends which way you want to go and how you want to define popularity .

[G.A.tor]

also remember that history is written by the victors....

[VintageComics]

As I stated earlier, I think most of us are unable to detach monetary gain from historical evaluation. Money is so influential in this day and age and it affects our perception, like it or not.

 

Now that Cap #1 is more valuable on the open market it becomes the more popular book. It's that simple.

 

And I'll freely admit that this was part of the appeal during my formative years in the 1980's with Marvel #1. It was unattainable and I wanted it all the more.

[Jaydogrules]

Not so obvious. People may like something but they can't always acquire it due to scarcity. For every ten Cap 1s that pop up, maybe one Marvel 1 surfaces. That doesn't mean that people will "settle" for a Cap 1 because there's no Marvel 1, but it creates a perception of popularity that may not be entirely accurate. The Superman/Batman thing is a good analogy. People like Batman more because the character has been handled better than Superman over the years. More interesting villains, better movies, Neal Adams, etc... but without Superman, there would have been no Batman. The Captain America thing is the same. Popularity is important but history and precedence is also important. Depends which way you want to go and how you want to define popularity .

 

While I must respectfully disagree with most of your assumptions (and the gross exaggeration that "10 Cap 1's come up for every one MC 1), the title of the thread isn't "which book is more popular and why", it's "which would you rather own, and why".

 

I haven't seen one person either way say their reason for wanting to own either book is because it is more "popular" than the other (despite the fact that a persistent few have attempted to turn the discussion into that).

 

Furthermore, rarity does not automatically equate to value, value is not precluded by relative abundance, and one thing being "first" doesn't mean another thing wouldn't have been first had the other thing never come along.

 

Such contentions look good in a sellers' byline for a book but is built entirely on a rose coloured speculative foundation.

 

Another book that sold more than the other "10 years ago" is AS 3 over AS 8 and, like Cap 1 and MC 1, it would probably take a minor miracle for AS 3 to ever overtake AS 8 again. Books falling out of favour or ceding the limelight to other books happens all the time in this hobby.

 

And yet, in spite of it all, and most ironically, the most valuable Marvel Comic ever to have sold publicly remains the ultra- "common" AF 15...

 

-J.

[woowoo]

N

 

While I must respectfully disagree with most of your assumptions (and the gross exaggeration that "10 Cap 1's come up for every one MC 1), the title of the thread isn't "which book is more popular and why", it's "which would you rather own, and why".I haven't seen one person either way say their reason for wanting to own either book is because it is more "popular" than the other (despite the fact that a persistent few have attempted to turn the discussion into that).

 

Furthermore, rarity does not automatically equate to value, value is not precluded by relative abundance, and one thing being "first" doesn't mean another thing wouldn't have been first had the other thing never come along.

 

Such contentions look good in a sellers' byline for a book but is built entirely on a rose coloured speculative foundation.

 

Another book that sold more than the other "10 years ago" is AS 3 over AS 8 and, like Cap 1 and MC 1, it would probably take a minor miracle for AS 3 to ever overtake AS 8 again. Books falling out of favour or ceding the limelight to other books happens all the time in this hobby.

 

And yet, in spite of it all, and most ironically, the most valuable Marvel Comic ever to have sold publicly remains the ultra- "common" AF 15...

 

-J.

 

 

This thread is now been changed to the (which book is more popular and why)

 

10 xs more than which would you rather own, and why

[Ameri]

Not so obvious. People may like something but they can't always acquire it due to scarcity. For every ten Cap 1s that pop up, maybe one Marvel 1 surfaces. That doesn't mean that people will "settle" for a Cap 1 because there's no Marvel 1, but it creates a perception of popularity that may not be entirely accurate. The Superman/Batman thing is a good analogy. People like Batman more because the character has been handled better than Superman over the years. More interesting villains, better movies, Neal Adams, etc... but without Superman, there would have been no Batman. The Captain America thing is the same. Popularity is important but history and precedence is also important. Depends which way you want to go and how you want to define popularity .

 

While I must respectfully disagree with most of your assumptions (and the gross exaggeration that "10 Cap 1's come up for every one MC 1), the title of the thread isn't "which book is more popular and why", it's "which would you rather own, and why".

 

I haven't seen one person either way say their reason for wanting to own either book is because it is more "popular" than the other (despite the fact that a persistent few have attempted to turn the discussion into that).

 

Furthermore, rarity does not automatically equate to value, value is not precluded by relative abundance, and one thing being "first" doesn't mean another thing wouldn't have been first had the other thing never come along.

 

Such contentions look good in a sellers' byline for a book but is built entirely on a rose coloured speculative foundation.

 

Another book that sold more than the other "10 years ago" is AS 3 over AS 8 and, like Cap 1 and MC 1, it would probably take a minor miracle for AS 3 to ever overtake AS 8 again. Books falling out of favour or ceding the limelight to other books happens all the time in this hobby.

 

And yet, in spite of it all, and most ironically, the most valuable Marvel Comic ever to have sold publicly remains the ultra- "common" AF 15...

 

-J.

 

1 to 10 is a gross exaggeration? Give or take, it's pretty close as I've been following both books for many years. I also have both books so I don't have a stake either way, and I laid out historic reasons why I favor Marvel 1 over Cap 1 earlier in this thread. A question like "which would I rather own?" naturally brings the topic of popularity into any discussion. People buy popular books... just semantics how you want to define "rather own,"

[Jaydogrules]

Not so obvious. People may like something but they can't always acquire it due to scarcity. For every ten Cap 1s that pop up, maybe one Marvel 1 surfaces. That doesn't mean that people will "settle" for a Cap 1 because there's no Marvel 1, but it creates a perception of popularity that may not be entirely accurate. The Superman/Batman thing is a good analogy. People like Batman more because the character has been handled better than Superman over the years. More interesting villains, better movies, Neal Adams, etc... but without Superman, there would have been no Batman. The Captain America thing is the same. Popularity is important but history and precedence is also important. Depends which way you want to go and how you want to define popularity .

 

While I must respectfully disagree with most of your assumptions (and the gross exaggeration that "10 Cap 1's come up for every one MC 1), the title of the thread isn't "which book is more popular and why", it's "which would you rather own, and why".

 

I haven't seen one person either way say their reason for wanting to own either book is because it is more "popular" than the other (despite the fact that a persistent few have attempted to turn the discussion into that).

 

Furthermore, rarity does not automatically equate to value, value is not precluded by relative abundance, and one thing being "first" doesn't mean another thing wouldn't have been first had the other thing never come along.

 

Such contentions look good in a sellers' byline for a book but is built entirely on a rose coloured speculative foundation.

 

Another book that sold more than the other "10 years ago" is AS 3 over AS 8 and, like Cap 1 and MC 1, it would probably take a minor miracle for AS 3 to ever overtake AS 8 again. Books falling out of favour or ceding the limelight to other books happens all the time in this hobby.

 

And yet, in spite of it all, and most ironically, the most valuable Marvel Comic ever to have sold publicly remains the ultra- "common" AF 15...

 

-J.

 

1 to 10 is a gross exaggeration? Give or take, it's pretty close as I've been following both books for many years. I also have both books so I don't have a stake either way, and I laid out historic reasons why I favor Marvel 1 over Cap 1 earlier in this thread. A question like "which would I rather own?" naturally brings the topic of popularity into any discussion. People buy popular books... just semantics how you want to define "rather own,"

 

It may be semantics , but to imply (or state outright) that the only reason a person would rather own a Cap 1 over an MC 1 is either out of ignorance of "comics history" or because they are a simpleton that is being hypnotized entirely by a recent series of successful movies is to trivialize the majority opinion which includes a wide swath of stated reasons which have been predominately tied to the love of the character(s) introduced within, a greater affinity for the cover, etc.

 

-J.

[Artboy99]

"how about a little of both K-dog."

 

 

 

[Ken Aldred]

I've never been able to afford a copy of either, so whichever has had the higher price at a certain point in time or how that fluctuated has never been of any practical importance to me; only the character I'm most interested in.

 

The impoverished and geekish interpretation, I suppose.

 

 

[Crowzilla]

There's a reason Marvel #1 was the most valuable book in the OSPG.

 

Cap #1 is 'more popular' than Marvel #1 for exactly the same reason that AF #15 is more popular than FF #1. Movies and people not knowing the past or getting into comics but never having read them.

 

And historical significance doesn't change. Popularity does.

 

a) As we've discussed many times OSPG doesn't always reflect real market values, and despite the Church Marvel 1 setting records before Chuck sold the Church Action 1, the consensus was the Action would sell for more (and it did, becoming the first $20K+ comic).

 

b) Fantasy 15 surpassed FF1 in actual value in the mid 90s, long before the Spidey movies started.

 

[TheSurgeon]

marvel 1 - easy decision for me.

 

if the gold forumites voted exclusively,i have a feeling M1 wins. But add the CG crowd (where the next movie dictates popularity) and Cap 1 will take the reins.

 

 

Agreed.

 

Or just take a poll from 10 years ago before the Marvel cinematic universe was formed. It probably would have been Marvel #1 by a landslide.

 

My post from CG

 

Most people will find it hard to choose using the 'money is no object' mindset because humans are soooooo subjective. Marvel #1 has always been my favorite book but when I finally owned my first and only Cap #1 the gravitational pull towards that Cap #1 was so strong I had to actually recheck which book was my fave.

 

Once I sold my Cap #, like a light switch it wae clear again which book was my fave. It was a very enlightening self analysis.

 

Anybody else experience this?

 

For me it's always been Marvel #1 all the way and Action #1 over Tec #27.

 

And FF #1 over AF #15, no question.

 

 

 

 

I totally agree with this post. I think maybe our age is similar? I was born in 1966. MC 1 and AC 1 were the comics at the top of the pecking order, and while OSPG deemed MC 1 more valuable in the late 1970's, I always liked AC 1 more. My top three in order are AC 1, DC 27, MC 1. I would have to think a bit regarding the rest of the top ten. I also agree with FF 1 over AF 15, although I do regret selling my only copy of AF 15 around the time after the housing bubble burst (was that 2008/2009 or so?) and I thought I would get a better copy for the same price. That never happened...

Edited September 7, 2016 by TheSurgeon

[lou_fine]

I also agree with FF 1 over AF 15, although I do regret selling my only copy of AF 15 around the time after the housing bubble burst (was that 2008/2009 or so?) and I thought I would get a better copy for the same price. That never happened...

 

Depends on what you did with the money you received from selling your AF 15.

 

If you are living in the right location and you had used it as part of a down payment to invest in real estate after the housing bubble crash, you can probably pick up 2 or 3 better copies of AF 15 with that money.

[redknight99]

Cap 1 because its an American hero punching Hitler during WW2 era, and Americans could all relate to that dark time in world history. While I love MC1 as a comic book collector, the cover doesn't have the same impact to the general American audience as Cap 1. Just my humble opinion. I would love to own either or one day...

Edited September 7, 2016 by redknight99

[Primetime]

[Crowzilla]

8 hours ago, Primetime said:

Now, how do you like that - obviously Marvel #1 was released much earlier than everyone has been lead to believe. As Wizard of Oz finished principal shooting in March of 1939 (though some reshoots were done as late as June, with previews in July and opening nationwide in August).

 

Let me add , before people think I'm being serious and that I don't know Judy is really holding an issue of Life Magazine

Edited January 3, 2021 by Crowzilla
sarcasm