The Dr Who Thread 3 3

[ComicConnoisseur]

I haven't watched it yet but ratings continue to be thru the roof. 

Doctor Who's Jodie Whittaker continues to draw big ratings in second episode

Episode 2 was down on the premiere... but still huge.

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/doctor-who/news/a868436/doctor-who-series-11-episode-2-ratings-ghost-monument/

 

After last weekend's record-breaking debut, Jodie Whittaker's first Doctor Who series continues to perform strongly in the ratings.

The second episode 'The Ghost Monument' premiered last night (October 14), and drew in an overnight audience of 7.1 million, according to the BBC's Lizo Mzimba.

[ComicConnoisseur]

btw I still can't seem to find away to watch it here in the States, so most likely I will just wait for the blu-ray to come out.

 

[Comicopolis]

1 minute ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

btw I still can't seem to find away to watch it here in the States, so most likely I will just wait for the blu-ray to come out.

 

All I can say after two episodes is it's not worth buying.

[Cocomonkey]

13 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

btw I still can't seem to find away to watch it here in the States, so most likely I will just wait for the blu-ray to come out.

 

I watch it on the BBC America app, through my Amazon Fire Stick. If you have a cable TV package, you probably have BBC America, and it has the latest episodes (no previous seasons, but it has full eps for S10 at least). If you can't find the channel or want to watch it on demand (no DVR or whatever), you can watch on something with apps, you may just have to put in your cable provider to unlock the episodes (not sure if BBC America locks them or not).

[ComicConnoisseur]

22 hours ago, Get Marwood & I Live! said:

Managed to get a few minutes to post this. It is with a genuinely heavy heart that I say that I watched the second episode on Sunday and found it simply awful. I have a lot to say about it and why I feel like I do but I’ll try to keep it brief. This is a total unplanned brain dump so won’t be in my usual structured format.

First up, Jodie Whitaker clearly does not have the presence or acting ability needed to convince as the Doctor. Another female may have – but she does not. I found her irritatingly banal and without flair or mystery.

When David Tennant was announced, I was worried that he was an unknown. But he took the Doctor to a whole new level with an astonishing, barnstorming performance. When Matt Smith was announced I was worried he was too young. But he managed to convey old man in young body in a delightful way and I was won over by his physicality.

When Peter Capaldi was announced I was delighted. He became what I knew he would – the most convincing Doctor of all. Peerless.

When Jodie was announced I was worried she looked too pretty, and would be too bland having seen nothing in her previous work to suggest the talents needed to pull off the first female Doctor. Alas, I was right. She is a bland looking young woman reading the lines of a 1,000 year old being.

Now, a great Doctor can give you something to savour in even the worst story. And here is the real problem. The production team have no flair and no evident talent for Doctor Who story telling. When you get a new Doctor, you get the following:

1.      New Doctor

2.      New outfit

3.      New theme / titles

4.      New companions

5.      New Tardis

6.      New ‘direction’

Let’s look at how Chibnall and co dealt with some of these elements.

• New theme / titles – inexplicably absent from the first episode, we await them in the second. I think 99% of producers would have started episode two with a recap of the transfer to space, and then went from the shock of the Doctors face suspended in space in to the screech of the opening credits and theme. They didn’t. Straight into the theme. No suspense. Then straight into hanging in space. Any new joiner would have no idea what was going on. So bad set up, bad storytelling, bad narrative and the loss of the new theme cliff hanger moment. This shows a lack of flair
• New Tardis – finally appears at the end of episode two. A team with flair would know that we want to see the interior and marvel at it. We don’t see it in all its glory, just bits of it. It’s very dark. I can’t say I made out much of it. A production team with flair may have had a furry dice on the console which the Doctor could discard with a mock ‘hey, cheeky!’ but that would have required wit and flair. So I still don’t know what the Tardis interior looks like. Only that it’s dark. And has biscuits.
• The theme itself? Oddly dull. Grumbling. At odds with the young and fresh Jodie. The titles? What is it? Oil in water? No flair. Dull. Compare it to Matt Smiths Tardis bouncing about space to his upbeat theme which mirrored his energy. Or Capaldi’s eerie time clock
• The suit reveal. OK, in episode one – but as I recall we go from fat Nan dying to joking about in a second hand shop. What was the time frame here? With no Tardis, what was the Doctor doing from the death of fat Nan to the transportation into space? How many days elapsed? It doesn’t feel right

So, many of the 'big moments' feel squandered to me, I think, because the production team have no flair or feel for drama and the shows heritage.

Now the story of episode two. What was it? Not much at all. I can suspend disbelief when the story is cleaver or entertaining. This was neither. Why did they not die in space? How likely is it that the Doctor would crash land the spaceship (Revenge of the Sith anyone?) right on top of the others? Planets are fairly big things after all.

The two competitors. Were they supposed to be hardened and mercenary to be the last two standing in this odd competition? Why did they not jettison the Doctor the moment it became clear she had an interest in the Tardis, which I understood to be the prize? Why would they allow her to tag along?

Why did no one notice that there was no Tardis at the end, and therefore no prize?

The ---script and dialogue. What did anyone say that was either telling, clever or interesting? Did any of the Doctors lines strike you as Doctor worthy? Nothing witty, nothing clever. Here’s an example. When the Doc says “I was a hologram once – the gossip I picked up!” what does that mean? If she had said “I was invisible once…” the gossip bit would make sense. But I’ve never associated being a hologram with picking up gossip so the line fell flat. This indicates to me that the writer has no flair or wit. His words are banal across the board.

Shoe horned in politics. We have the ‘I need to win to bring my family out of war torn etc’. That is a ‘be nice to immigrants’ message. “My mum never caught me so I’m on my own in life” Doctor – “We’re better together”. Brexit.

Preachy. Lefty. Boring.

Shoe horned in emotional scene. “Fat Nan's dead. I think of her all the time” Yes. She died yesterday – didn’t she? I’d be crying my eyes out, blaming the Doctor and saying helping her choose an outfit was the last thing on my mind. Better that we help the Police with their enquiries into her death. Although, if many days, weeks even, had passed (as fat Nan's funeral suggested) again, what was the Doctor doing without a Tardis. Walking the streets? In a B&B?

Bad scene setting equals unrealistic feel. Bad production. No flair.

Shoe horned in ‘possible future mystery’ line. “The abandoned Doctor”. Ooh, what could it all mean.

I watched ‘Deep Breath’, Peter Capaldi’s opener twice when it first aired. It was funny, clever, exciting and with a Doctor who was disdainful of the threat (“Rubbish robots of the past….”). Here, Jodie gives up. That’s a good one for the first female Doctor. “I used to be able to” she said (when I was a man). Is that not the polar opposite of what we should be seeing? Oh, she as a Lady Doctor so must be expected to fail. Bad storytelling and bad, unconvincing characterisation.

Some lines from Deep Breath that I remember without looking them up – ‘attack eyebrows’, ‘rubbish robots from the past’, ‘needy megalomaniacal game player (Clara!)’ etc etc. The scene where they are in the café and everyone moves as they move. Clever, creepy, fun. The Master/Missy, Madame Vastra, Sontaran etc.

Look at Capaldi’s second show, Into the Dalek. He arrives, insults someone. Clara says ‘Sorry, I’m his carer’. “That's right” the Doctor says “she cares so I don’t have to”. Funny clever lines that I can remember years later.

What lines do you remember so far from Jodie? Her lines are so banal. “I see summat needs fixin, Ah do wot I cahn”

So, here’s the thing. The wrong actor is the Doctor. That is evident. And the wrong team are in charge. They are pedestrian where they should be outstanding. This means the show is dead.

I may actually give up, as I can’t bear to watch them squander it all. I haven’t even mentioned the 'monsters', and how rubbish they were. More rubbish than Capaldi's rubbish robots from the past.

For health reasons this will likely be my last post here this year. I’m gutted it was a downbeat one about something I care about, but that’s the way of things lately. We need our heroes more than ever and we need our entertainment. I’ve lost one of my favourites. Peter Capaldi was the last Doctor. My personal view, the Doctor is a man. My Dad is a man. There is no need for a woman to be my Dad. My Dad is my Dad, and he is a man.

Bye everyone and hope to see you some time next year 

P.S. A quick look at the press between takes and it seems everyone loves the new show. So, it seems I just don't understand....

 

 Capaldi was getting up there in age and that is hard for a young crowd to relate to.

 

She looks like she is in her prime years and a lot of people in that age demographic can relate to her.

Like I said I haven't seen it yet, so I can't really make a judgement yet.

I am going to shout out to my fellow New England friend who is the biggest Doctor Who fan I know,so

@NewEnglandGothic

What do you think of the new Doctor Who?

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by ComicConnoisseur

[ComicConnoisseur]

3 minutes ago, Cocomonkey said:

I watch it on the BBC America app, through my Amazon Fire Stick. If you have a cable TV package, you probably have BBC America, and it has the latest episodes (no previous seasons, but it has full eps for S10 at least). If you can't find the channel or want to watch it on demand (no DVR or whatever), you can watch on something with apps, you may just have to put in your cable provider to unlock the episodes (not sure if BBC America locks them or not).

I have Amazon Prime on Demand and a Amazon Fire Stick in my living room,so yeah I think I will be able to watch it now. Thanks I will check it out over the week-end.

[1Cool]

On 10/17/2018 at 2:53 PM, Get Marwood & I Live! said:

Managed to get a few minutes to post this. It is with a genuinely heavy heart that I say that I watched the second episode on Sunday and found it simply awful. I have a lot to say about it and why I feel like I do but I’ll try to keep it brief. This is a total unplanned brain dump so won’t be in my usual structured format.

First up, Jodie Whitaker clearly does not have the presence or acting ability needed to convince as the Doctor. Another female may have – but she does not. I found her irritatingly banal and without flair or mystery.

When David Tennant was announced, I was worried that he was an unknown. But he took the Doctor to a whole new level with an astonishing, barnstorming performance. When Matt Smith was announced I was worried he was too young. But he managed to convey old man in young body in a delightful way and I was won over by his physicality.

When Peter Capaldi was announced I was delighted. He became what I knew he would – the most convincing Doctor of all. Peerless.

When Jodie was announced I was worried she looked too pretty, and would be too bland having seen nothing in her previous work to suggest the talents needed to pull off the first female Doctor. Alas, I was right. She is a bland looking young woman reading the lines of a 1,000 year old being.

Now, a great Doctor can give you something to savour in even the worst story. And here is the real problem. The production team have no flair and no evident talent for Doctor Who story telling. When you get a new Doctor, you get the following:

1.      New Doctor

2.      New outfit

3.      New theme / titles

4.      New companions

5.      New Tardis

6.      New ‘direction’

Let’s look at how Chibnall and co dealt with some of these elements.

• New theme / titles – inexplicably absent from the first episode, we await them in the second. I think 99% of producers would have started episode two with a recap of the transfer to space, and then went from the shock of the Doctors face suspended in space in to the screech of the opening credits and theme. They didn’t. Straight into the theme. No suspense. Then straight into hanging in space. Any new joiner would have no idea what was going on. So bad set up, bad storytelling, bad narrative and the loss of the new theme cliff hanger moment. This shows a lack of flair
• New Tardis – finally appears at the end of episode two. A team with flair would know that we want to see the interior and marvel at it. We don’t see it in all its glory, just bits of it. It’s very dark. I can’t say I made out much of it. A production team with flair may have had a furry dice on the console which the Doctor could discard with a mock ‘hey, cheeky!’ but that would have required wit and flair. So I still don’t know what the Tardis interior looks like. Only that it’s dark. And has biscuits.
• The theme itself? Oddly dull. Grumbling. At odds with the young and fresh Jodie. The titles? What is it? Oil in water? No flair. Dull. Compare it to Matt Smiths Tardis bouncing about space to his upbeat theme which mirrored his energy. Or Capaldi’s eerie time clock
• The suit reveal. OK, in episode one – but as I recall we go from fat Nan dying to joking about in a second hand shop. What was the time frame here? With no Tardis, what was the Doctor doing from the death of fat Nan to the transportation into space? How many days elapsed? It doesn’t feel right

So, many of the 'big moments' feel squandered to me, I think, because the production team have no flair or feel for drama and the shows heritage.

Now the story of episode two. What was it? Not much at all. I can suspend disbelief when the story is cleaver or entertaining. This was neither. Why did they not die in space? How likely is it that the Doctor would crash land the spaceship (Revenge of the Sith anyone?) right on top of the others? Planets are fairly big things after all.

The two competitors. Were they supposed to be hardened and mercenary to be the last two standing in this odd competition? Why did they not jettison the Doctor the moment it became clear she had an interest in the Tardis, which I understood to be the prize? Why would they allow her to tag along?

Why did no one notice that there was no Tardis at the end, and therefore no prize?

The --script and dialogue. What did anyone say that was either telling, clever or interesting? Did any of the Doctors lines strike you as Doctor worthy? Nothing witty, nothing clever. Here’s an example. When the Doc says “I was a hologram once – the gossip I picked up!” what does that mean? If she had said “I was invisible once…” the gossip bit would make sense. But I’ve never associated being a hologram with picking up gossip so the line fell flat. This indicates to me that the writer has no flair or wit. His words are banal across the board.

Shoe horned in politics. We have the ‘I need to win to bring my family out of war torn etc’. That is a ‘be nice to immigrants’ message. “My mum never caught me so I’m on my own in life” Doctor – “We’re better together”. Brexit.

Preachy. Lefty. Boring.

Shoe horned in emotional scene. “Fat Nan's dead. I think of her all the time” Yes. She died yesterday – didn’t she? I’d be crying my eyes out, blaming the Doctor and saying helping her choose an outfit was the last thing on my mind. Better that we help the Police with their enquiries into her death. Although, if many days, weeks even, had passed (as fat Nan's funeral suggested) again, what was the Doctor doing without a Tardis. Walking the streets? In a B&B?

Bad scene setting equals unrealistic feel. Bad production. No flair.

Shoe horned in ‘possible future mystery’ line. “The abandoned Doctor”. Ooh, what could it all mean.

I watched ‘Deep Breath’, Peter Capaldi’s opener twice when it first aired. It was funny, clever, exciting and with a Doctor who was disdainful of the threat (“Rubbish robots of the past….”). Here, Jodie gives up. That’s a good one for the first female Doctor. “I used to be able to” she said (when I was a man). Is that not the polar opposite of what we should be seeing? Oh, she as a Lady Doctor so must be expected to fail. Bad storytelling and bad, unconvincing characterisation.

Some lines from Deep Breath that I remember without looking them up – ‘attack eyebrows’, ‘rubbish robots from the past’, ‘needy megalomaniacal game player (Clara!)’ etc etc. The scene where they are in the café and everyone moves as they move. Clever, creepy, fun. The Master/Missy, Madame Vastra, Sontaran etc.

Look at Capaldi’s second show, Into the Dalek. He arrives, insults someone. Clara says ‘Sorry, I’m his carer’. “That's right” the Doctor says “she cares so I don’t have to”. Funny clever lines that I can remember years later.

What lines do you remember so far from Jodie? Her lines are so banal. “I see summat needs fixin, Ah do wot I cahn”

So, here’s the thing. The wrong actor is the Doctor. That is evident. And the wrong team are in charge. They are pedestrian where they should be outstanding. This means the show is dead.

I may actually give up, as I can’t bear to watch them squander it all. I haven’t even mentioned the 'monsters', and how rubbish they were. More rubbish than Capaldi's rubbish robots from the past.

For health reasons this will likely be my last post here this year. I’m gutted it was a downbeat one about something I care about, but that’s the way of things lately. We need our heroes more than ever and we need our entertainment. I’ve lost one of my favourites. Peter Capaldi was the last Doctor. My personal view, the Doctor is a man. My Dad is a man. There is no need for a woman to be my Dad. My Dad is my Dad, and he is a man.

Bye everyone and hope to see you some time next year 

P.S. A quick look at the press between takes and it seems everyone loves the new show. So, it seems I just don't understand....

 

Hope your health gets better quickly!

[Batman]

2 hours ago, 1Cool said:

Hope your health gets better quickly!

+1

No one else is going to write that much about the new series  

[Batman]

3 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

 

@NewEnglandGothic

What do you think of the new Doctor Who?

Give him time. He's still in shock...

[NewEnglandGothic]

2 minutes ago, Batman said:

Give him time. He's still in shock...

Haven't caught it yet.

I'm too busy writing. :)

[NewEnglandGothic]

2 hours ago, 1Cool said:

Hope your health gets better quickly!

[Batman]

1 minute ago, NewEnglandGothic said:

Haven't caught it yet.

I'm too busy writing.

Great stuff!

You're not missing much by the way.

[NewEnglandGothic]

3 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

 Capaldi was getting up there in age and that is hard for a young crowd to relate to.

 

She looks like she is in her prime years and a lot of people in that age demographic can relate to her.

Like I said I haven't seen it yet, so I can't really make a judgement yet.

I am going to shout out to my fellow New England friend who is the biggest Doctor Who fan I know,so

@NewEnglandGothic

What do you think of the new Doctor Who?

Just not in the mood to process something I want to watch right now.

I have to finish two series of three articles first. :)

All I can watch now is drivel like Skyscraper.

[NewEnglandGothic]

When I get my real-life mythologies down, I can't wait to jump into some Who.

It's really been a ride.

 

This one might wind up being FIVE articles.

[NewEnglandGothic]

But, I did recently buy a TARDIS blue car. 

[The Voord]

From what I understand, the season will comprise of single-episode storylines?  Not so sure that it's a good idea to self-enforce such a writing constraint on a 45-minute format  - where everything needs to be done and dusted by the end of the allotted running time.  Stronger story material usually benefits from longer (multiple-episode) running times.  Deeper characterization (which at the moment is sorely lacking) is likely to be jettisoned in favour of servicing the needs of the short story format.  

Visually, the second episode 'looked' good but, at best, had a sliver of a plot that was hardly novel or inspired.  Lots of running around, coupled  with lots of insipid dialogue being spouted by the main characters . . . most of whom I just can't take to.

Disappointing stuff up to now.  Will it improve?  I'm not optimistic.  You should hit the viewers with the good stuff from the git-go . . . to get them hooked and coming back for more.  Two bland opening episodes doesn't exactly instill me with confidence.

Edited October 19, 2018 by The Voord

[Comicopolis]

11 hours ago, The Voord said:

From what I understand, the season will comprise of single-episode storylines?  Not so sure that it's a good idea to self-enforce such a writing constraint on a 45-minute format  - where everything needs to be done and dusted by the end of the allotted running time.  Stronger story material usually benefits from longer (multiple-episode) running times.  Deeper characterization (which at the moment is sorely lacking) is likely to be jettisoned in favour of servicing the needs of the short story format.  

Visually, the second episode 'looked' good but, at best, had a sliver of a plot that was hardly novel or inspired.  Lots of running around, coupled  with lots of insipid dialogue being spouted by the main characters . . . most of whom I just can't take to.

Disappointing stuff up to now.  Will it improve?  I'm not optimistic.  You should hit the viewers with the good stuff from the git-go . . . to get them hooked and coming back for more.  Two bland opening episodes doesn't exactly instill me with confidence.

Exactly. I'm hoping it's just Chibnall's poor writing to blame. It will be interesting to see how they handle Rosa Parks in the next episode.

[The Voord]

10 minutes ago, Comicopolis said:

Exactly. I'm hoping it's just Chibnall's poor writing to blame. It will be interesting to see how they handle Rosa Parks in the next episode.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Chibnall's earlier Dr Who scripts.  He came from a fan background and I find his Who material to be fan-boy stuff.  Will be interesting to see how other writers fare, though the worry for me here is that Chibnall might tinker with the scripts and dumb them down.

[Comicopolis]

Massive improvement across the board in episode three - -script, dialogue, acting, JW's performance. Chibnall had an input in the -script but I'm guessing it was minimal.

Onward and upwards now.

[Ken Aldred]

Yup.  Much better this week.