The Dr Who Thread 3 3

[The Voord]

They changed the time-slot for last night's season finale and I missed the first five minutes.  I then nodded-off quite a bit during the screening (seriously!), so will have to re-watch it again this week.  From what I saw, it seemed a slight improvement over previous episodes but I'm still not sold on Jodie Whittaker and Team Tardis Motley Crew.

Edited December 10, 2018 by The Voord

[Get Marwood & I]

2 hours ago, The Voord said:

They changed the time-slot for last night's season finale and I missed the first five minutes.  I then nodded-off quite a bit during the screening (seriously!), so will have to re-watch it again this week.  From what I saw, it seemed a slight improvement over previous episodes but I'm still not sold on Jodie Whittaker and Team Tardis Motley Crew.

There were definitely elements of a Doctor Who story hiding in there, and some aspects reminded me of old Tom Baker episodes. But if you're unhappy with the lead, and the team (or 'fam' as they're now going for) it's difficult to appreciate them. Also, and as I've already said, nothing has been advanced this season. If you took it away, and started with a new team next year, there would be no trace of it, or any need to reference it. I know that may have been deliberate, to make it seem fresh, but whats the point of a 50 year history if you don't at least acknowledge it once in a while and build on it. Again, as I've said, it gives the impression that the previous incarnations didn't exist or have been forgotten. There is no way that Jodie is an 'advancement' on Peter. And you can take your pick of the two available on that!

[The Voord]

Going forward, I think the series has become so tarnished for many of us that it will be difficult to salvage in future seasons (if it doesn't get cancelled).

[Get Marwood & I]

5 minutes ago, The Voord said:

Going forward, I think the series has become so tarnished for many of us that it will be difficult to salvage in future seasons (if it doesn't get cancelled).

Nah. Just get rid of Chibbers and Whitterer, stick in a bloke with gravitas and quirkiness, add a series director with an appreciation of the medium and this whole sorry saga will be forgotten in a flash. 

[The Voord]

8 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Nah. Just get rid of Chibbers and Whitterer, stick in a bloke with gravitas and quirkiness, add a series director with an appreciation of the medium and this whole sorry saga will be forgotten in a flash. 

So how come I'm still having painful memories of Col Baker and Sly McCoy many years later?  

[Get Marwood & I]

6 hours ago, The Voord said:

So how come I'm still having painful memories of Col Baker and Sly McCoy many years later?  

Good point 

[Ken Aldred]

7 hours ago, The Voord said:

So how come I'm still having painful memories of Col Baker and Sly McCoy many years later?  

Just wait until flashback nightmares about the new Doctor start.

Then, you might find that Colin and Sly’s relatively mild long-term psychological effects weren’t so bad after all.

[The Voord]

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 7:10 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Half way through 'It takes you away'. The fact that it's half way through, and I'm here, speaks volumes. Talking of volume, the incidental music is more agreeably quiet this week. But, apart from the cave man, who has much potential, the episode is boring. Very boring. More boring than the boring people of Boredom, Boretown. 

There's still time of course,  heh heh, but I haven't noticed this week's PC lecture yet. Maybe they've taken a day off. And JW is as annoying as ever. But there are some really interesting developments in the Whovian legend tonight.  Ha, fooled you. Another episode with zero progression. 

 

Going back to the Norwegian Wood episode . . . actually, there was an underlying social message there about CHILD ABUSE  (i.e. . . .Don't abandon your young daughter in a boarded-up house with scary background tapes playing to terrify her into staying indoors while you go swanning-off into another dimension to have meet-ups with your dear departed wife) . . .

Edited December 12, 2018 by The Voord

[Get Marwood & I]

4 hours ago, The Voord said:

On 12/2/2018 at 7:10 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Half way through 'It takes you away'. The fact that it's half way through, and I'm here, speaks volumes. Talking of volume, the incidental music is more agreeably quiet this week. But, apart from the cave man, who has much potential, the episode is boring. Very boring. More boring than the boring people of Boredom, Boretown. 

There's still time of course,  heh heh, but I haven't noticed this week's PC lecture yet. Maybe they've taken a day off. And JW is as annoying as ever. But there are some really interesting developments in the Whovian legend tonight.  Ha, fooled you. Another episode with zero progression. 

 

Going back to the Norwegian Wood episode . . . actually, there was an underlying social message there about CHILD ABUSE  (i.e. . . .Don't abandon your young daughter in a boarded-up house with scary background tapes playing to terrify her into staying indoors while you go swanning-off into another dimension to have meet-ups with your dear departed wife) . . .

I had to think hard what you were talking about there Voord because I had forgotten that the episode even existed. And for once, I don't think I can blame my generally leaky memory for that..

[Comicopolis]

Is Chibnall just a terrible writer or is it because he's no good at this genre?

[Comicopolis]

On 12/12/2018 at 12:35 PM, The Voord said:

Going back to the Norwegian Wood episode . . . actually, there was an underlying social message there about CHILD ABUSE  (i.e. . . .Don't abandon your young daughter in a boarded-up house with scary background tapes playing to terrify her into staying indoors while you go swanning-off into another dimension to have meet-ups with your dear departed wife) . . .

Yeah, that was such a terrible plot device. One of many in that episode but probably the worst.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Comicopolis

[Get Marwood & I]

On 12/14/2018 at 12:42 AM, Comicopolis said:

Is Chibnall just a terrible writer or is it because he's no good at this genre?

I think the latter.  Broadchurch was a very good show, showing that he has talent as a writer and creator. But it was markedly different in length, subject matter, tone and setting. I think Chibnall is just the wrong fit for the show. For all his faults, Moffat understood it inside out and had a flair for intelligent writing. Chris seems to have written the season based on only knowing three things; the title, the Tardis and the need for companions.  And the short one hour story slot clearly doesn't suit his style. 

He recruited Jodie of course, having worked with her on Broadchurch. She was likely a fun person to work with and, based on his seemingly limited appreciation of the Doctor's character, he took her off screen bubbliness (she was a misery in Broadchurch) as being enough to portray the Doctor. 

I'm sure it was all done, and is all done, in good faith. It just doesn't,  in my opinion, work on any level.  Others disagree of course so it will likely continue for a while yet. We have Daleks in the NY episode I hear, so that will be intriguing, but I've mentally parked the show now, and will wait for this current team to move on. With a bit of luck, I'll be around to see it return to itself in reinvigorated, knowledgeable hands. 

[The Voord]

There's a clip of Chibnall (as an extra on one of the Dr Who DVD extras . . . forget which one) dating back to the time of Col Baker's last season.  He appears as an audience member on a BBC news programme, grouped with a smattering of fans from the Merseyside Local Group of the Dr Who Appreciation Society, giving guests Pip and Jane Baker a tongue-lashing for their work on 'Trial of a Timelord'.  As such, he appears to have come from a fan background for the show during the 1980s.  A few years prior to this, I was a member of the DWAS Merseyside Local Group but got banned (along with some friends) as a result of a clash with organizer Graeme Wood (who also appears with Chibnall on the audience panel).  I never re-joined the DWAS (maybe I'm still on the permanent ban list?  Ha, ha, ha).

Edited December 15, 2018 by The Voord

[Get Marwood & I]

16 minutes ago, The Voord said:

As such, he appears to have come from a fan background for the show during the 1980s.  

It doesn't show, alas

17 minutes ago, The Voord said:

A few years prior to this, I was a member of the DWAS Merseyside Local Group but got banned (along with some friends) as a result of a clash with organizer Graeme Wood (who also appears with Chibnall on the audience panel).  I never re-joined the DWAS (maybe I'm still on the permanent ban list?  Ha, ha, ha).

Ha! Always good to get banned once in a while. Often, it show's flair and individuality I find. I don't think DWAS were keen on me either as it goes, as they hated DWB and that's where my art went. Damned by association. Nothing more amusing than fan boys falling out is there. It's one of the reasons I'm happy to be a loner. Have a great Christmas Mr. V. And be careful out there - you never know Who's around the corner...

[The Voord]

A friend of mine attended a recent 'Missing Believed Wiped' event in London.  He provided some interesting feedback from the event to our circle of friends.  I'm sure he won't mind me copying-and-pasting highlights of his e-mail here:

"Some notes from my trip to MBW today. First up, I had to miss the first of the shows where they showed the Wheel animation - so no report from that. But i did go to the second part, which was the Philip Morris part. Very well worth attending.

First up, we finally have an explanation for how he has the Sierra Leone stuff and it reveals a whole new potential source of missing episodes (well, it was a new one on me). Cinemas. Apparently, in Africa, prints would be sent to cinemas for them to be shown as not many people had televisions and even if you could get a telly, the transmitters were not that strong so the coverage of the country was not great. So people would go to the cinema to see stuff and the TV stations would, I presume, illegally sell stuff to the cinema owners. It is just as well that they were in Sierra Leone as he stated clearly that the TV station was destroyed. But the cinemas survived. Now the cinemas were rudimentary - Morris describes one in Sierra Leone which was a wood and corrugated iron structure with steel benches inside. But that is where he found a lot of stuff, including the Morecambe and Wise episode he showed. He also told of how he found out about this possible avenue for finding missing TV when an African friend told him about watching the Abominable Snowmen at the cinema! So, hats off to the guy, he has found a whole new way in to finding missing material.

Morris also revealed his MO a bit - he really seems to work by building up social networks and really sweating them. The trip to the cinema starred when he got to Sierra Leone and befriended a hotel owner there. Morris then went back to the UK but his friend then seems to have done a lot of legwork for Morris and got him to come back to visit the cinema. My experience of Africa also suggests there must have been some palm greasing involved, so if Morris has been holding out for money, I can’t criticise him. At least him treating it like a job has meant that he has really, really put the hours and effort into this and has the results to show for it.

Now, we got no Who today ,.... but. After saying no Who Fiddy talked about more finds and the possibility of another event in March. Morris then said that next year’s event would be a big one and promised that he would be revealing a major find. Needless to say, that got my hopes up. I could put 2 and 2 together at this point and think Abominable Snowmen or, even more likely, Wheel in Space. Of course it might just be a stray Who episode or even no Who at all and just half a dozen episodes of The Good Old Days (which he is also looking for). We shall see, but the guy is clearly sitting on a mound of stuff."

[Get Marwood & I]

2 hours ago, The Voord said:

A friend of mine attended a recent 'Missing Believed Wiped' event in London. 

Interesting stuff, thanks Voord. There was quite a preoccupation with the missing episodes back in the eighties when my interest was at its peak. Nice to be reminded of it, and to see it's still going on.

I also attended an event yesterday - 'WiWbW' - run out of my front room. It wasn't very well attended alas, despite the punchy title. Yes, despite having the entirety of season 11 on the agenda, 'Wish it Would be Wiped 2018' wasn't the success I was hoping it would be. 

[The Voord]

19 hours ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Interesting stuff, thanks Voord. There was quite a preoccupation with the missing episodes back in the eighties when my interest was at its peak. Nice to be reminded of it, and to see it's still going on.

Well, after the recovery of (most of) 'Web of Fear' and 'Enemy of the World' in recent years I'd like to think that Phil Morris's efforts will yield some more stuff in future times.  The missing WOF episode 3 does seem on the cards (I hope so, as I've always rated that story as one of Pat Troughton's very best adventures - on a par with 'Evil of the Daleks' and 'Tomb of the Cybermen' for me).  The animation of missing episodes is an acceptable substitute going forward, though I just wish they'd use more competent artists as past releases have left a lot to be desired considering the technology now available (apart from the Daleks elements, I thought the animated characters in 'Power of the Daleks' looked very disappointing . . . Troughton had a peculiar scissor-walk in that one!).

[Get Marwood & I]

35 minutes ago, The Voord said:

Well, after the recovery of (most of) 'Web of Fear' and 'Enemy of the World' in recent years I'd like to think that Phil Morris's efforts will yield some more stuff in future times.  The missing WOF episode 3 does seem on the cards (I hope so, as I've always rated that story as one of Pat Troughton's very best adventures - on a par with 'Evil of the Daleks' and 'Tomb of the Cybermen' for me).  The animation of missing episodes is an acceptable substitute going forward, though I just wish they'd use more competent artists as past releases have left a lot to be desired considering the technology now available (apart from the Daleks elements, I thought the animated characters in 'Power of the Daleks' looked very disappointing . . . Troughton had a peculiar scissor-walk in that one!).

Let's hope more turn up. I haven't seen any of the animated ones yet. So many things I used to love I've let slide. I sometimes wish I could regenerate. New lease of life and all that. Knowing my luck I'd regenerate into myself...

[NewEnglandGothic]

Just finished Tom Baker's "The Leisure Hive."

It's gotten a bad rap over the years for all the John-Nathan Turner changes that were made, but I enjoyed it.  Hey, there was no Adric... yet.

Lalla Ward wasn't so stiff and quite fetching in her sailor top, Tom Baker's new costume can't contain him, guest-star Adrienne Corri (from A Clockwork Orange) acts with dignity, despite having green hair, and Tom's old age make-up holds up in close-ups for a show with no budget.

Can't wait to watch the documentaries.

[NewEnglandGothic]

Just finished "City of Death" from the Tom Baker era.

Yeah, I forgot that was a good one.  Definitely in the top 10 of the older stuff.

I'm going to have to write a list pretty soon, just so I can keep track.