Hunting the 6 variants of Batman 457 (1st Tim Drake ROBIN) 8 8

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 minute ago, ygogolak said:

 

Shill bidding is when someone bids on an item to artificially increase its price, desirability, or search standing.

Shill bidding can happen regardless of whether the bidder knows the seller. However, when someone bidding on an item knows the seller, they might have information about the seller's item that other shoppers aren't aware of. This could create an unfair advantage, or cause another bidder to pay more than they should. We want to maintain a fair marketplace for all our users, and as such, shill bidding is prohibited on eBay. For more details on what constitutes shill bidding, please see our full policy guidelines below.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/selling-practices-policy/shill-bidding-policy?id=4353

What do you think the word "artificially" means...?

Hint: it means they don't intend to purchase the item if they're the winner. If they DO purchase the item, guess what...? A real transaction, for a real price, has occurred.

And eBay needs to update their policies. Unless something has changed VERY recently, "search standing" hasn't been affected by number of bids in well over a decade and a half...maybe more.

Remember the "hot" listings that would show up at the top of all search pages, with the little flames in the title? Any listing with 30 bids got that.

They did away with that easily manipulated practice a long, long time ago.

[bababooey]

7 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

There were no bids retracted in this auction. Please point to the bid retraction you are seeing. Here's the bidding history for the listing:

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/163133148040?item=163133148040&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rmvSB=true

I didn't suggest you did, reread my post...quoted above for your convenience...and stop at the end. Also, please answer the question already asked, and asked again: where do you see a bid retraction in this listing...?

No, it doesn't. Driving up the bid is not shill bidding, unless the buyer has no intention of buying the item if they win it. Since you don't know that to be the case here, and have no way of proving that on the face of it, you can't claim there was shill bidding here.

If you click on the second highest bidder's masked ID (Mr 28?)  The field just above his six month history you will see his bid retraction of "1" on this auction.  

Edited July 14, 2018 by bababooey

[bababooey]

6 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I think, based on the evidence, that the high bidder isn't being completely honest with you. I can't prove it, but that's what I suspect. But I totally understand your unwillingness to make waves, and I probably would have done the same thing.

But I also suspect that the comments by people here influenced that decision, and I don't think that's fair to anyone, and needs to be said.

After all...who's to say the high bidder isn't the one who was shill bidding...?

Consider this equally plausible scenario: the high bidder has one to sell waiting in the wings, unknown to all but them. They see the listing, notice the pattern that Mr. 28 feedback has of driving up the bid, and they place what they consider a worthwhile value on the book, knowing the 28 guy will probably bid it up.

So they bid, Mr 28 comes along, bids it up, they get excited and put in ANOTHER, even higher bid, hoping someone drives it up some more...and when they win, they back out...except now the book has an established "high" price, which they can then use to justify their selling price in a week, or a month, or even two. 

And because the high bidder backed out, there's MORE evidence for the high bidder being a shill bidder than there is for the underbidder.

Is this the case? I doubt it. I suspect both bidders were acting in good faith with their bids. But there's no way to prove it either way, and that's the real issue: making accusations of shilling when there's little evidence of it. Multiple bids is not evidence. Multiple bids up to and just under the high bid is SOME evidence, but not very compelling. The fact that the underbidder didn't return to try and expose the new high bid, with a little less than 2 hours left on the auction, is fairly compelling evidence that they weren't shill bidding, but just driving up the price, which is a perfectly legitimate practice. 

Without proof, or very compelling evidence, accusations of shill bidding should be made with caution, not tossed around with abandon, as they have been on this board in recent years, driven by, I suspect, the entitled attitudes of some people who think it's not fair that other people legitimately drive up the prices of things they want. They stomp their feet and cry "SHILL BIDDING!!" when it's not.

To that, I say: tough noogies.

  I thought the winner was a legitimate bidder and as I stated in my earlier post in this thread, if I had won it as he did I would have asked the seller to ignore the bids of the guy who retracted.  

Edited July 15, 2018 by bababooey

[RockMyAmadeus]

18 minutes ago, bababooey said:

If you click on the second highest bidder's masked ID (Mr 28?)  The field just above his six month history you will see his bid retraction of "1" on this auction.  

At the risk of sending poor "Stu Cathell" into further absolute fits of apoplexy and rage, you are mistaken. 

That number merely represents the number of bid retractions the bidder has had in the last 30 days.

Here, I'll make a handy picture, so all can see:

This is the 28 feedback underbidder in the auction currently being discussed. 

Here is what a bidding history page looks like with a retracted (and cancelled) bid:

Notice, the retracted bid contains the scrambled user id, and amount, and the time of both the original bid and its retraction. That listing is for the Spawn #185 9.6 currently being discussed elsewhere, and said bidding history can be found here:

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/153094753648?item=153094753648&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565

Here, then, is the bidding history for the Robin #1:

See anything missing there...?

Right. NO retractions or cancellations to be seen. Here's the bidding history page:

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/163133148040?item=163133148040&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rmvSB=true&rmvSB=true

And hey, look what I just noticed: the high bidder, who backed out, was also the FIRST bidder! Whaddya know, plot thickening devices all over the place!

[bababooey]

7 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

At the risk of sending poor "Stu Cathell" into further absolute fits of apoplexy and rage, you are mistaken. 

That number merely represents the number of bid retractions the bidder has had in the last 30 days.

Here, I'll make a handy picture, so all can see:

This is the 28 feedback underbidder in the auction currently being discussed. 

Here is what a bidding history page looks like with a retracted (and cancelled) bid:

Notice, the retracted bid contains the scrambled user id, and amount, and the time of both the original bid and its retraction. That listing is for the Spawn #185 9.6 currently being discussed elsewhere, and said bidding history can be found here:

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/153094753648?item=153094753648&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565

Here, then, is the bidding history for the Robin #1:

See anything missing there...?

Right. NO retractions or cancellations to be seen. Here's the bidding history page:

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/163133148040?item=163133148040&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rmvSB=true&rmvSB=true

And hey, look what I just noticed: the high bidder, who backed out, was also the FIRST bidder! Whaddya know, plot thickening devices all over the place!

If that's true then I stand corrected.   Also congratulations for making it 30 days with no bid retractions after averaging one per month earlier this year.  

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, bababooey said:

If that's true then I stand corrected.

Don't mind me, I'll just pick my jaw up off the ground. First time for everything!

Well...sorta. 

1 hour ago, bababooey said:

Also congratulations for making it 30 days with no bid retractions after averaging one per month earlier this year.  

Why, thank you! Do I get a chip, like in AA? Not sure why that means anything, but ok. I'm sure I'll have another one, soon enough.

Hey, what's your eBay user name, so we can see how many bid retractions you have....?

(pssst...bid retractions aren't that big of a deal....)

[bababooey]

Back off ya stalker!  

[Cpt Kirk]

1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Don't mind me, I'll just pick my jaw up off the ground. First time for everything!

Well...sorta. 

Why, thank you! Do I get a chip, like in AA? Not sure why that means anything, but ok. I'm sure I'll have another one, soon enough.

Hey, what's your eBay user name, so we can see how many bid retractions you have....?

(pssst...bid retractions aren't that big of a deal....)

all very interesting theories.   I'm very tempted to try to list this Robin #1 again and see what happens,   would anyone like to see that?

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 minute ago, Cpt Kirk said:

all very interesting theories.   I'm very tempted to try to list this Robin #1 again and see what happens,   would anyone like to see that?

Does a lion like raw meat...?

 

[Cpt Kirk]

13 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Does a lion like raw meat...?

 

Consider it done then!       I will start the listing at 8:15 p.m. eastern tonight unless someone wants to contact me before then with an offer off line.   

I started bidding at $60 since I have a friend that i know would buy it for $50.   Let's hope for good clean bids this time.

 

 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Cpt Kirk

[divad]

18 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Don't mind me, I'll just pick my jaw up off the ground. First time for everything!

Well...sorta. 

Why, thank you! Do I get a chip, like in AA? Not sure why that means anything, but ok. I'm sure I'll have another one, soon enough.

Hey, what's your eBay user name, so we can see how many bid retractions you have....?

(pssst...bid retractions aren't that big of a deal....)

to a buyer.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

2 hours ago, divad said:

to a buyer.

 

I've had plenty of bid retractions as a seller. Doesn't bother me a bit.

I would much rather someone retract a bid than win an item and change their mind. FAR rather.

6 hours ago, Cpt Kirk said:

Let's hope for good clean bids this time.

I think you got good clean bids last time. But hey, what do I know?

[Carl Elvis]

Long term I probably would have flipped it, maybe...I love having rare pieces in my collection but if they start going for a lot I find it hard to justify.

[Cpt Kirk]

25 minutes ago, Carl Elvis said:

Long term I probably would have flipped it, maybe...I love having rare pieces in my collection but if they start going for a lot I find it hard to justify.

thanks.   I was wondering.   It is up for bid again on ebay.   Since high bidder backed out, I wanted to start from scratch and see what would happen. 

[Cpt Kirk]

The sale of this Robin #1 2nd print newsstand went very oddly for me.   On the second time I put it up for bid, the high bid was approximately $152 but buyer did not pay and did not respond to messages.  So I reported the buyer and cancelled the sale.  I decided to sell to a good friend of mine who really loves Robin comics book for $50.  He said he was glad to pay $50 so that he would not have to add another item to his want list (I can really relate to that).   So now this comic book is in the hands of someone who will appreciate it.

 

Note:  I edited the posting above to replace "seller" with "buyer".   Brain cramp on my part

Edited August 7, 2018 by Cpt Kirk

[RockMyAmadeus]

2 hours ago, Cpt Kirk said:

The sale of this Robin #1 2nd print newsstand went very oddly for me.   On the second time I put it up for bid, the high bid was approximately $152 but seller did not pay and did not respond to messages.  So I reported the seller and cancelled the sale.  I decided to sell to a good friend of mine who really loves Robin comics book for $50.  He said he was glad to pay $50 so that he would not have to add another item to his want list (I can really relate to that).   So now this comic book is in the hands of someone who will appreciate it.

Do you mean the buyer? You say "seller" a couple of times.

Sorry for not bidding. I looked for it again, but I didn't see it, and then forgot. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I'm also sorry Carl didn't win. Both times he bid were legitimate.

 

[Carl Elvis]

Thanks Rock! Sorry to hear Kirk had so many bad bidders on this one.

[Cpt Kirk]

21 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Do you mean the buyer? You say "seller" a couple of times.

Sorry for not bidding. I looked for it again, but I didn't see it, and then forgot. 

yes, I meant to say "buyer did not pay" instead of seller.   But no worries here.... I think it karma really wanted my friend to have it.   I only put it up for bid to prove the point that there probably is some demand for this Robin comic book.  I think it is safe to say that you could get at least one hundred bucks for a nice copy if you find one and put it up for sale.

[mysterio]

On 7/15/2018 at 7:42 PM, Carl Elvis said:

Long term I probably would have flipped it, maybe...I love having rare pieces in my collection but if they start going for a lot I find it hard to justify.

Especially if the buyer pool is *really* small, and that $50 book could quickly go back to being a $5 book.