TMNT 1 (first print) on eBay... Needs opinions regarding authenticity

[GM8]

Huh? What happened to the rest? Don't tell me there are 800 file copies?

 

That likely means that they were reserved for friends/family and is meaningless for the final # now as anyone with a brain would have kept them. So the real # is probably the 3250 ballpark. I'd guess 1-2% lost or destroyed over the years.

[valiantman]

Huh? What happened to the rest? Don't tell me there are 800 file copies?

 

That likely means that they were reserved for friends/family and is meaningless for the final # now as anyone with a brain would have kept them. So the real # is probably the 3250 ballpark. I'd guess 1-2% lost or destroyed over the years.

Considering the number of copies that are in mid-grade shape in the market...

plus the fact that the book doesn't fit with the rest of comic books...

I'd say way more than 2% are gone... possibly gone by 1986.

 

I can't tell you how many magazines and other collectibles I tossed as a kid simply because I didn't have the right sized box to put them in.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Huh? What happened to the rest? Don't tell me there are 800 file copies?

 

 

Kevin was signing, so we couldn't talk about it in depth, but this is the conversation, approximately:

 

RMA: "When I started collecting, Turtles #1 was $300 or so, and I was in high school, so I just couldn't afford it. Many years later, I was able to finally buy one on eBay for $66!"

 

Kevin: "That's great!"

 

RMA: "Yeah, and that's with only the 3250 or so that were made!"

 

Kevin: "...and only about 2,500 of those actually got out to the public."

 

RMA: "Wow, cool!" (RMA is NOT the sparkling conversationalist he wishes he was.)

 

 

 

[GM8]

Huh? What happened to the rest? Don't tell me there are 800 file copies?

 

That likely means that they were reserved for friends/family and is meaningless for the final # now as anyone with a brain would have kept them. So the real # is probably the 3250 ballpark. I'd guess 1-2% lost or destroyed over the years.

Considering the number of copies that are in mid-grade shape in the market...

plus the fact that the book doesn't fit with the rest of comic books...

I'd say way more than 2% are gone... possibly gone by 1986.

 

I can't tell you how many magazines and other collectibles I tossed as a kid simply because I didn't have the right sized box to put them in.

 

Maybe...but this book was hot right from the start and known to be very rare so chances are it was a very small number of people who didn't hear the news. This isn't some book that was released, forgotten about and then later saw its day. Turtles were everywhere back in the 80's and up until the 90's. Heck they're still pretty omnipresent today. I'd guess over 3100 or so are still out there.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Huh? What happened to the rest? Don't tell me there are 800 file copies?

 

That likely means that they were reserved for friends/family and is meaningless for the final # now as anyone with a brain would have kept them. So the real # is probably the 3250 ballpark. I'd guess 1-2% lost or destroyed over the years.

Considering the number of copies that are in mid-grade shape in the market...

plus the fact that the book doesn't fit with the rest of comic books...

I'd say way more than 2% are gone... possibly gone by 1986.

 

I can't tell you how many magazines and other collectibles I tossed as a kid simply because I didn't have the right sized box to put them in.

 

Maybe...but this book was hot right from the start and known to be very rare so chances are it was a very small number of people who didn't hear the news. This isn't some book that was released, forgotten about and then later saw its day. Turtles were everywhere back in the 80's and up until the 90's. Heck they're still pretty omnipresent today. I'd guess over 3100 or so are still out there.

 

 

As Kevin Eastman said, and he'd be in a position to know, somewhere around 2,500 actually made it out to the general public.

 

The book wasn't hot the day it was released, but rather essentially launched the "Black and White craze", which reached its peak in 1986. Yes, TMNT was a sellout, and yes E&L went to a second printing fairly soon, but it's not hard at all to burn through 2,500-3,275 copies if a book is even moderately successful.

 

Consider: TMNT isn't listed in the 1985 OPG (released around April 15, 1985), almost a year after TMNT #1 was released, but it IS in the 1986 OPG (at $40!) It wasn't "known to be rare" from the start, because that's not how communication worked back then, in the pre-internet days. People just didn't know, except by word of mouth.

 

Not saying that TMNT wasn't the hottest thing since sliced bread at the time...it WAS...but not instantly, like Thor #337, or ASM #252. It took several months to a couple of years to really get going. The sporadic nature of publishing certainly didn't help in that area, either. It took four years just to get 15 issues, plus some one-shots, published.

 

Also, Valiantman's point is accurate: it was an odd format, and so had a tendency to get lain on top of boxes, rather than in them, and could get smooshed a lot more easily as a result. And...collectors weren't anywhere near as obsessive about condition, and wouldn't be until the 2000s. It was just a different world.

 

Frankly, 9.4+ TMNT #1s are, as much as regular books up until about 1980, freaks of nature, accidents of preservation, and not the result of deliberate efforts to preserve the "highest graded copy possible." I suspect, of the 19-20 9.8s that exist, no more than 5 or so are natural, unpressed 9.8s.

 

[BarryAllen]

Huh? What happened to the rest? Don't tell me there are 800 file copies?

 

That likely means that they were reserved for friends/family and is meaningless for the final # now as anyone with a brain would have kept them. So the real # is probably the 3250 ballpark. I'd guess 1-2% lost or destroyed over the years.

Considering the number of copies that are in mid-grade shape in the market...

plus the fact that the book doesn't fit with the rest of comic books...

I'd say way more than 2% are gone... possibly gone by 1986.

 

I can't tell you how many magazines and other collectibles I tossed as a kid simply because I didn't have the right sized box to put them in.

 

Maybe...but this book was hot right from the start and known to be very rare so chances are it was a very small number of people who didn't hear the news. This isn't some book that was released, forgotten about and then later saw its day. Turtles were everywhere back in the 80's and up until the 90's. Heck they're still pretty omnipresent today. I'd guess over 3100 or so are still out there.

 

 

As Kevin Eastman said, and he'd be in a position to know, somewhere around 2,500 actually made it out to the general public.

 

The book wasn't hot the day it was released, but rather essentially launched the "Black and White craze", which reached its peak in 1986. Yes, TMNT was a sellout, and yes E&L went to a second printing fairly soon, but it's not hard at all to burn through 2,500-3,275 copies if a book is even moderately successful.

 

Consider: TMNT isn't listed in the 1985 OPG (released around April 15, 1985), almost a year after TMNT #1 was released, but it IS in the 1986 OPG (at $40!) It wasn't "known to be rare" from the start, because that's not how communication worked back then, in the pre-internet days. People just didn't know, except by word of mouth.

 

Not saying that TMNT wasn't the hottest thing since sliced bread at the time...it WAS...but not instantly, like Thor #337, or ASM #252. It took several months to a couple of years to really get going. The sporadic nature of publishing certainly didn't help in that area, either. It took four years just to get 15 issues, plus some one-shots, published.

 

Also, Valiantman's point is accurate: it was an odd format, and so had a tendency to get lain on top of boxes, rather than in them, and could get smooshed a lot more easily as a result. And...collectors weren't anywhere near as obsessive about condition, and wouldn't be until the 2000s. It was just a different world.

 

Frankly, 9.4+ TMNT #1s are, as much as regular books up until about 1980, freaks of nature, accidents of preservation, and not the result of deliberate efforts to preserve the "highest graded copy possible." I suspect, of the 19-20 9.8s that exist, no more than 5 or so are natural, unpressed 9.8s.

 

How would you compare the launch of TMNT to the launch of Spawn?

[GM8]

Huh? What happened to the rest? Don't tell me there are 800 file copies?

 

That likely means that they were reserved for friends/family and is meaningless for the final # now as anyone with a brain would have kept them. So the real # is probably the 3250 ballpark. I'd guess 1-2% lost or destroyed over the years.

Considering the number of copies that are in mid-grade shape in the market...

plus the fact that the book doesn't fit with the rest of comic books...

I'd say way more than 2% are gone... possibly gone by 1986.

 

I can't tell you how many magazines and other collectibles I tossed as a kid simply because I didn't have the right sized box to put them in.

 

Maybe...but this book was hot right from the start and known to be very rare so chances are it was a very small number of people who didn't hear the news. This isn't some book that was released, forgotten about and then later saw its day. Turtles were everywhere back in the 80's and up until the 90's. Heck they're still pretty omnipresent today. I'd guess over 3100 or so are still out there.

 

 

As Kevin Eastman said, and he'd be in a position to know, somewhere around 2,500 actually made it out to the general public.

 

The book wasn't hot the day it was released, but rather essentially launched the "Black and White craze", which reached its peak in 1986. Yes, TMNT was a sellout, and yes E&L went to a second printing fairly soon, but it's not hard at all to burn through 2,500-3,275 copies if a book is even moderately successful.

 

Consider: TMNT isn't listed in the 1985 OPG (released around April 15, 1985), almost a year after TMNT #1 was released, but it IS in the 1986 OPG (at $40!) It wasn't "known to be rare" from the start, because that's not how communication worked back then, in the pre-internet days. People just didn't know, except by word of mouth.

 

Not saying that TMNT wasn't the hottest thing since sliced bread at the time...it WAS...but not instantly, like Thor #337, or ASM #252. It took several months to a couple of years to really get going. The sporadic nature of publishing certainly didn't help in that area, either. It took four years just to get 15 issues, plus some one-shots, published.

 

Also, Valiantman's point is accurate: it was an odd format, and so had a tendency to get lain on top of boxes, rather than in them, and could get smooshed a lot more easily as a result. And...collectors weren't anywhere near as obsessive about condition, and wouldn't be until the 2000s. It was just a different world.

 

Frankly, 9.4+ TMNT #1s are, as much as regular books up until about 1980, freaks of nature, accidents of preservation, and not the result of deliberate efforts to preserve the "highest graded copy possible." I suspect, of the 19-20 9.8s that exist, no more than 5 or so are natural, unpressed 9.8s.

 

TMNT #1 1st print's rarity and hotness was all the rage back then to everyone in the comic world and many people outside it. It was that way within months of release at all the locations I scouted them from. I recall talking to dealers here in NYC and all over the state and noone could get a copy. When the 3rd printing came out it never looked back.

 

Unless Eastman still has those copies or says they were destroyed they probably made their way into the wild. You just have to assume unless he knows otherwise. That's what happens to hot collectibles.

[ThothAmon]

The launch of TMNT was the antithesis of the launch of Spawn. TMNT came out under the radar, and because it was so damn good, became a cultural phenomenon. Spawn was totally hyped before its launch and has, to date, been less than a success. Heck, probably some collectors have 3200 #1 ones saved themselves.

[Bronty]

Huh? What happened to the rest? Don't tell me there are 800 file copies?

 

 

Kevin was signing, so we couldn't talk about it in depth, but this is the conversation, approximately:

 

RMA: "When I started collecting, Turtles #1 was $300 or so, and I was in high school, so I just couldn't afford it. Many years later, I was able to finally buy one on eBay for $66!"

 

Kevin: "That's great!"

 

RMA: "Yeah, and that's with only the 3250 or so that were made!"

 

Kevin: "...and only about 2,500 of those actually got out to the public."

 

RMA: "Wow, cool!" (RMA is NOT the sparkling conversationalist he wishes he was.)

 

 

 

 

thanks though! very interesting

[Hado]

Could have been worse RMA.... You could have said 'keen'

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Huh? What happened to the rest? Don't tell me there are 800 file copies?

 

That likely means that they were reserved for friends/family and is meaningless for the final # now as anyone with a brain would have kept them. So the real # is probably the 3250 ballpark. I'd guess 1-2% lost or destroyed over the years.

Considering the number of copies that are in mid-grade shape in the market...

plus the fact that the book doesn't fit with the rest of comic books...

I'd say way more than 2% are gone... possibly gone by 1986.

 

I can't tell you how many magazines and other collectibles I tossed as a kid simply because I didn't have the right sized box to put them in.

 

Maybe...but this book was hot right from the start and known to be very rare so chances are it was a very small number of people who didn't hear the news. This isn't some book that was released, forgotten about and then later saw its day. Turtles were everywhere back in the 80's and up until the 90's. Heck they're still pretty omnipresent today. I'd guess over 3100 or so are still out there.

 

 

As Kevin Eastman said, and he'd be in a position to know, somewhere around 2,500 actually made it out to the general public.

 

The book wasn't hot the day it was released, but rather essentially launched the "Black and White craze", which reached its peak in 1986. Yes, TMNT was a sellout, and yes E&L went to a second printing fairly soon, but it's not hard at all to burn through 2,500-3,275 copies if a book is even moderately successful.

 

Consider: TMNT isn't listed in the 1985 OPG (released around April 15, 1985), almost a year after TMNT #1 was released, but it IS in the 1986 OPG (at $40!) It wasn't "known to be rare" from the start, because that's not how communication worked back then, in the pre-internet days. People just didn't know, except by word of mouth.

 

Not saying that TMNT wasn't the hottest thing since sliced bread at the time...it WAS...but not instantly, like Thor #337, or ASM #252. It took several months to a couple of years to really get going. The sporadic nature of publishing certainly didn't help in that area, either. It took four years just to get 15 issues, plus some one-shots, published.

 

Also, Valiantman's point is accurate: it was an odd format, and so had a tendency to get lain on top of boxes, rather than in them, and could get smooshed a lot more easily as a result. And...collectors weren't anywhere near as obsessive about condition, and wouldn't be until the 2000s. It was just a different world.

 

Frankly, 9.4+ TMNT #1s are, as much as regular books up until about 1980, freaks of nature, accidents of preservation, and not the result of deliberate efforts to preserve the "highest graded copy possible." I suspect, of the 19-20 9.8s that exist, no more than 5 or so are natural, unpressed 9.8s.

 

TMNT #1 1st print's rarity and hotness was all the rage back then to everyone in the comic world and many people outside it. It was that way within months of release at all the locations I scouted them from. I recall talking to dealers here in NYC and all over the state and noone could get a copy. When the 3rd printing came out it never looked back.

 

 

No doubt. But look at what you've said: "...within months of release."

 

Now, things work in 24 hour cycles. Cap #25, for example, was $100 on Wednesday, $50 on Thursday, and $10 on Friday, as the internet was flooded with copies.

 

TMNT #1, however, didn't operate that way. When you talk about its "rarity and hotness", it is relative to the era.

 

Again: it doesn't even appear in the 1985 OPG, which came out around the middle of April, 1985, nearly a year (if not more) after TMNT #1's release. Now, Overstreet has always been slow to react to new issues, but he wasn't that bad in the mid-80's, which is reflected by the fact that ASM #252, also just a little over a year old, was $3.60 in the guide, with earlier issues still cover price (60 cents), while #253-255 were $1.50...2.5x cover.

 

Now....it DOES appear (as Teenage Mutan Ninja Turtles...note misspelling) in the "Silver Age to Recent" section on page A-22...in passing along with GI Joe, Alpha Flight, Elementals, Secret Wars, American Flagg, and something called "Marvel Universe", whatever that is...but that's it.

 

No doubt, TMNT #1 was a hot book...but it simmered to a rolling boil, rather than launching as a supernova. It didn't take the nation by storm like ASM #252 had, and it certainly wasn't the cultural icon that it is now. It was a lot more along the lines of Valiant comics, a few years later, which took a year or so to become that era's phenomenon. By 1986, sure, all bets were off. But, for most of 1984 and into 1985, it was still fairly well under the radar, and certainly those outside of comics wouldn't have heard, or cared, about a cutesy animal Ronin "homage."

 

 

Unless Eastman still has those copies or says they were destroyed they probably made their way into the wild. You just have to assume unless he knows otherwise. That's what happens to hot collectibles.

 

 

I had no motive to question him, and he had no motive to lie, since that wasn't the focus of the conversation. It was something he brought up, unprompted and unrehearsed, so I would tend to believe it.

 

But, it's certainly a topic worth pursuing with him, and if there hadn't been a line out the door at the IDW Diamond Summit booth, I would have.

 

[vsndesigns]

Seller just provided this new link for additional photos.

 

http://clintuitive.com/tmnt-comic/

 

Any comments?

 

Thanks for contacting the seller - much appreciated.

It looks really good to me.

 

My initial thought was that it's authentic; then the skeptical side of me kicked in

 

Did anyone on the board here win the auction??

Not a prob. I've been on Ebay since 2000 and I've learned that the best way to find out about something I'm interested in is to ask. I didn't win the auction but maybe I'll win our state lottery and have enough money to buy one in the future!