Comic Con sellers seem to be in the wrong business. SMH

[mysterio]

I found that the $2, $5, $10, $20, $50 books were selling pretty good but I don't think that we sold a book over $400. We had quite a Few Slabbed books on our Back wall and I think we sold 2. I had some Slabs priced right at GPA and Others 10% over just for haggling purposes.

 

One thing that we were constantly hearing on the Last day of the show was "Chit! I didn't see you guys till now" or "I've never heard of you guys before" We had a one guy tell us that after seeing our books and prices he was immediately feeling buyers remorse from the purchases he just made 15 mins prior

 

I think the main thing that hurt us in making sales on Big Books was the fact that it was our first show and no one knew to even look for us. I guess the more shows we do the more people will get to know us, plain and simple.

 

What you say is true for many vendors like me and others here when I started set up a table 2 years ago with my buddy. Our first time was not bad and many people asked us if we are new or if we owned a store somewhere? Our profits was small. Sold a LOT of $1.00, $2.00 books at this time.

 

Now after 2 years since, we have moved up slowly with better selection and a new wall rack. We get a few returning clients. Many tell us that we give good reasonable prices, grades good, and have some wiggle room on bigger books. Seems they like what we are doing, we must be doing something right.

 

There is one I want ask you about. What about the pre-opening of con shows when only vendors/dealers are checking other tables to seek good deals? Among dealers, we have an unwritten code that a dealer should sell below FMV to allow room for a dealer to make money. Most wants ...let's say, 25%,30% or more?

 

How does the dealer handle this deal without losing money after spending $$ on a book to flip? Use an example ... let say I'd buy a ASM 50 VF 8.5 white pages for $250, half of guide value. Put it on wall rack and mark up at FMV. At a con pre-opening, another dealer spot it and wants offer $300-350 for this book. What do the selling dealer do about that? I am curious about how other dealers do themselves?

 

Forgetting about the grading option - it would have to depend on how well I knew the other dealer. If it was a guy like Robert on the boards (or others) who always gives me a great deal I'd let him have it for $350 since I made money and we have a good relationship. If it was a guy I see at a few Cons and he will probably have it on his wall for $450 10 minutes after I sell it to him I'll probably say no. I don't see Spiderman 50 VF+s at half guide ever so why leave that much meat on the bone if I probably will not see another anytime soon.

 

I'd agree with Bob to take the easy 40% and the cash in hand, let the other guy work harder to make the lower margin if they so choose. What difference does it make if you see them again or not, or if they sell the book at that same show or not? Their money still spends, and you're not doing anything sketchy ethically to get it.

[1Cool]

Can anyone explain the concept of having big ticket books as eye candy in a booth? I can understand having books like IH 181 CGC 9.2 or Hulk 1 CGC 4.0 in a booth if you think you can sell it but the concept of having those type of books to bring in the casual buyers escapes me (and even more confusing is it seems to work).

 

The vast majority of buyers at even big Cons don't have a desire to buy a book in that caliber but they flock to see the books . . why? I don't go to a Porsche dealership to drool at cars and while looking I grab a Honda Civic since I happen to be there. If anything I tend to avoid booths with the ultra high end books since I assume their prices are higher then the guys with mid range books since those are the books I want to buy.

 

Your post doesn't make sense. Nobody would go to a Porsche dealership looking to pick up a Honda. They'd go looking for a Porsche.

 

The people bringing big books to shows are lugging around inventory and putting it risk of theft or loss just to have eye candy. They are obviously bringing their wares to show them and potentially sell them.

 

Remember where 1Cool is coming from. From what I've read, his customers are budget-minded, they're not looking for high grade GA. They're buying Deadpools, Harley Quinns, and minor keys, so they only ever see Hulk 181s at a show.

 

Why else do people have wall books, other than to advertise their booth and attract potential buyers? Flashing some big books tells the general buying public that you're a player. If your wall books are non-key Spideys, Catwoman 1 and a VF copy of X-Men 266, some will ignore the booth, and others will come looking to pick the bones at a deep discount.

 

This is why I don't understand dealers selling keys at 10% off to other dealers before the show. The buyer has all the books that bring the people want to see, and the seller has to sell the scraps in his bare booth. Yes, you've made your money on those books, but you've lost the opportunity to move some lesser books along with those keys (and use the lesser books as a discount, essentially selling the key at full price).

 

Good points across the board. I do tend to avoid the guys who have New Mutants 1 or and assortment of Golden Age Westerns on their wall so I guess I do profile booths in my own way.

[VintageComics]

Remember where 1Cool is coming from. From what I've read, his customers are budget-minded, they're not looking for high grade GA. They're buying Deadpools, Harley Quinns, and minor keys, so they only ever see Hulk 181s at a show.

 

Why else do people have wall books, other than to advertise their booth and attract potential buyers? Flashing some big books tells the general buying public that you're a player. If your wall books are non-key Spideys, Catwoman 1 and a VF copy of X-Men 266, some will ignore the booth, and others will come looking to pick the bones at a deep discount.

 

This is why I don't understand dealers selling keys at 10% off to other dealers before the show. The buyer has all the books that bring the people want to see, and the seller has to sell the scraps in his bare booth. Yes, you've made your money on those books, but you've lost the opportunity to move some lesser books along with those keys (and use the lesser books as a discount, essentially selling the key at full price).

 

All buyers are budget minded. Even the biggest buyers.

 

Wall books are just a way to display your best pieces.

 

Even dealers who specialize in $1 books put books bigger than $1 on their walls, but ultimately they are offering items for sale.

 

I don't think anyone really brings books to put on a wall that they don't expect to sell.

 

Except me. At a few local shows I used to put up my personal books that were actually not for sale just to show people books that they may never see again.

[Foolkiller]

Can anyone explain the concept of having big ticket books as eye candy in a booth? I can understand having books like IH 181 CGC 9.2 or Hulk 1 CGC 4.0 in a booth if you think you can sell it but the concept of having those type of books to bring in the casual buyers escapes me (and even more confusing is it seems to work).

 

The vast majority of buyers at even big Cons don't have a desire to buy a book in that caliber but they flock to see the books . . why? I don't go to a Porsche dealership to drool at cars and while looking I grab a Honda Civic since I happen to be there. If anything I tend to avoid booths with the ultra high end books since I assume their prices are higher then the guys with mid range books since those are the books I want to buy.

 

Your post doesn't make sense. Nobody would go to a Porsche dealership looking to pick up a Honda. They'd go looking for a Porsche.

 

The people bringing big books to shows are lugging around inventory and putting it risk of theft or loss just to have eye candy. They are obviously bringing their wares to show them and potentially sell them.

 

I've heard many times where people said they put high end books on their wall to attract buyers and then say they don't really expect to sell any of them. They are all for show. And I do believe I've heard multiple people say the eye candy helped bring in the buyers even though none of the buyers actually bought any of the eye candy books.

 

I've put those kinds of books on the wall in Baltimore and generally have complete sell through. There are plenty of big buyers at the convention who do spend money. Even at smaller cons, if I show up, yes I'm buying as a dealer, but I typically try to spend $10-$15k if I can in the room. I think there are plenty of guys like me who would do that at the right price point.

[Foolkiller]

Remember where 1Cool is coming from. From what I've read, his customers are budget-minded, they're not looking for high grade GA. They're buying Deadpools, Harley Quinns, and minor keys, so they only ever see Hulk 181s at a show.

 

Why else do people have wall books, other than to advertise their booth and attract potential buyers? Flashing some big books tells the general buying public that you're a player. If your wall books are non-key Spideys, Catwoman 1 and a VF copy of X-Men 266, some will ignore the booth, and others will come looking to pick the bones at a deep discount.

 

This is why I don't understand dealers selling keys at 10% off to other dealers before the show. The buyer has all the books that bring the people want to see, and the seller has to sell the scraps in his bare booth. Yes, you've made your money on those books, but you've lost the opportunity to move some lesser books along with those keys (and use the lesser books as a discount, essentially selling the key at full price).

 

 

All buyers are budget minded. Even the biggest buyers.

 

Wall books are just a way to display your best pieces.

 

Even dealers who specialize in $1 books put books bigger than $1 on their walls, but ultimately they are offering items for sale.

 

I don't think anyone really brings books to put on a wall that they don't expect to sell.

 

Except me. At a few local shows I used to put up my personal books that were actually not for sale just to show people books that they may never see again.

 

There are other dealers who do that too Roy, but I will say you're a dealer and if someone offered you enough, I suspect you'd sell.

[VintageComics]

There are other dealers who do that too Roy, but I will say you're a dealer and if someone offered you enough, I suspect you'd sell.

 

Yeah, now that you mention it I've bought a few of your keepers.

 

Mine actually weren't for sale at the time. although they're all gone now.

[kazoo]

There's an old joke in the vintage guitar show business...

 

If the sign says "Not for Sale", it really means make an offer

 

If the sign says "Make an Offer" it really means not for sale

[THB]

I found that the $2, $5, $10, $20, $50 books were selling pretty good but I don't think that we sold a book over $400. We had quite a Few Slabbed books on our Back wall and I think we sold 2. I had some Slabs priced right at GPA and Others 10% over just for haggling purposes.

 

One thing that we were constantly hearing on the Last day of the show was "Chit! I didn't see you guys till now" or "I've never heard of you guys before" We had a one guy tell us that after seeing our books and prices he was immediately feeling buyers remorse from the purchases he just made 15 mins prior

 

I think the main thing that hurt us in making sales on Big Books was the fact that it was our first show and no one knew to even look for us. I guess the more shows we do the more people will get to know us, plain and simple.

 

What you say is true for many vendors like me and others here when I started set up a table 2 years ago with my buddy. Our first time was not bad and many people asked us if we are new or if we owned a store somewhere? Our profits was small. Sold a LOT of $1.00, $2.00 books at this time.

 

Now after 2 years since, we have moved up slowly with better selection and a new wall rack. We get a few returning clients. Many tell us that we give good reasonable prices, grades good, and have some wiggle room on bigger books. Seems they like what we are doing, we must be doing something right.

 

There is one I want ask you about. What about the pre-opening of con shows when only vendors/dealers are checking other tables to seek good deals? Among dealers, we have an unwritten code that a dealer should sell below FMV to allow room for a dealer to make money. Most wants ...let's say, 25%,30% or more?

 

How does the dealer handle this deal without losing money after spending $$ on a book to flip? Use an example ... let say I'd buy a ASM 50 VF 8.5 white pages for $250, half of guide value. Put it on wall rack and mark up at FMV. At a con pre-opening, another dealer spot it and wants offer $300-350 for this book. What do the selling dealer do about that? I am curious about how other dealers do themselves?

 

Forgetting about the grading option - it would have to depend on how well I knew the other dealer. If it was a guy like Robert on the boards (or others) who always gives me a great deal I'd let him have it for $350 since I made money and we have a good relationship. If it was a guy I see at a few Cons and he will probably have it on his wall for $450 10 minutes after I sell it to him I'll probably say no. I don't see Spiderman 50 VF+s at half guide ever so why leave that much meat on the bone if I probably will not see another anytime soon.

 

I'd agree with Bob to take the easy 40% and the cash in hand, let the other guy work harder to make the lower margin if they so choose. What difference does it make if you see them again or not, or if they sell the book at that same show or not? Their money still spends, and you're not doing anything sketchy ethically to get it.

 

Good post.

[Vger7]

Who are you talking to?

 

If I wanted "Museum Pieces" I would charge admission for viewing.

 

Nobody specifically - more generality in nature. I've heard it mentioned numerous times over the years but to be specific VGer7 said in his Con write up he noticed more people flocked to his booth when he brought in the higher end slabs as eye candy. It sounds like he sold a couple but most were there casual buyer's viewing pleasure.

 

I had 3 Hulk#181's, all signed at the very top of my racks. I worried that I was taking up precious space but it attracted lots of “gawkers” who were pointing and talking about it among themselves. The Hulk#181 has an iconic status and even the casual attendee seems to know about it. This open the door for a quick conversation and many hung around long enough to see what else I had and picked up a $10 trade or a cheap comic. If they seemed interested in something but looked unsure about the purchase... I would quickly offer a discount before they could put the item back down on the table.

 

In away, I guess the Hulk#181 were museum pieces... but it drew the guests into the gift shop. I have enough merchandise left over for one more FanExpo but I'm not sure that I would set up again with just comics alone...

[G.A.tor]

I feel that convention promoters should only charge dealers $100-500. The brunt of the cost should come from fans. If a show is charging $1k-5k for dealer tables then the con should be free for all fans. Double dipping is severely cutting into the buying power.

 

As a buyer I want to pay at least 10% profit on moderns and keys to the dealer. However, if the dealer has only a 2-5% margin which is usually the case on GA/SA keys, I'll pay that + 5%. But if the dealer over paid or wants 15% over fmv I'm not interested.

 

Unfortunately a dealer won't advertise what they paid so a buyer must default to a 20% discount offer assuming the dealer marks up everything by 20%.

 

I know the fmv of any book I hunt for. When I find it I will try to negotiate down to 10% below fmv. If the dealer won't at least meet me at fmv, I walk. The dealer doesnt have to go 10% below but if he does, I'm buying more from them. If it's just fmv, then I'm one and done. Ive spent thousands at a couple dealers booths when they've gone 5-10% below fmv. I only assume they had the margin to allow that.

 

I myself try to buy books at 10% or so below fmv so that I can offer at fmv (just keys, mind you)

 

I appreciate when folks want to buy a book from me and offer 20% below my asking. I can only politely decline. In many cases a buyer can go right to gpa and see what I paid for a book. It's not a dirty secret to me, it's generally readily available info

 

Now I know where all the money in the room goes to! Using that math and the expenses you said you had you would have to bring in $50K - $100K before breaking even ($5-$10K in expenses). You obviously have the stock to bring in that kind of cash (and much more) but I can't even get my head around that kind of money in a weekend.

 

I also sell $50-$500 book with a little better margin but yes, generally I need to do 50,000-100,000+ to "break even" at many cons

[blazingbob]

How about we remove the AS #50 VF+ from the example.

 

If it is a book you bought at $250, could sell for $450 but flip it to a dealer for $350 and make 40% is leaving $100 on the table too much meat on the bone for you?

 

[blazingbob]

"This is why I don't understand dealers selling keys at 10% off to other dealers before the show. The buyer has all the books that bring the people want to see, and the seller has to sell the scraps in his bare booth. Yes, you've made your money on those books, but you've lost the opportunity to move some lesser books along with those keys (and use the lesser books as a discount, essentially selling the key at full price)".

 

If I am standing in front of you prepared to pay for the book even with a 10% discount are you really going to "Hope" some collector is going to buy the book?

 

You can tell that you or the seller has all the books the buyers want to see? Since 1973 I have been looking for that application, that connection to the collectors mind exactly what they are looking for.

 

Really? Guaranteed sale versus hope?

 

I'm waiting for the wait until the end of the show post. At the end of the show I'm tired and want to go home.

 

[KPR Comics]

I sometimes would feel a twinge of sadness looking at my decimated wall at the end of a show. But then I would look at my Square balance, PayPal balance and stack of cash and the sadness itself was decimated.

[blazingbob]

I agree, unless it is something extremely hard to replace I very rarely feel remorse about selling something. It is on to the next deal.

 

It is much easier to spend money in this business then collect it.

 

 

[october]

"This is why I don't understand dealers selling keys at 10% off to other dealers before the show. The buyer has all the books that bring the people want to see, and the seller has to sell the scraps in his bare booth. Yes, you've made your money on those books, but you've lost the opportunity to move some lesser books along with those keys (and use the lesser books as a discount, essentially selling the key at full price)".

 

If I am standing in front of you prepared to pay for the book even with a 10% discount are you really going to "Hope" some collector is going to buy the book?

 

You can tell that you or the seller has all the books the buyers want to see? Since 1973 I have been looking for that application, that connection to the collectors mind exactly what they are looking for.

 

Really? Guaranteed sale versus hope?

 

I'm waiting for the wait until the end of the show post. At the end of the show I'm tired and want to go home.

 

Not only that, but if a dealer is undercapitalized (as they generally seem to be) how many times can the $350 seller turn their money over before the $450 seller makes good on their full retail price?

 

I don't feel like buying opportunities are so scarce as to force me to hold out for top dollar. Funny, no matter how fast I sell, the short boxes just keep filling back up about as fast.

[MusterMark]

I agree, unless it is something extremely hard to replace I very rarely feel remorse about selling something. It is on to the next deal.

 

It is much easier to spend money in this business than collect it.

 

 

So true in this business. And in many others.

 

 

 

[1Cool]

How about we remove the AS #50 VF+ from the example.

 

If it is a book you bought at $250, could sell for $450 but flip it to a dealer for $350 and make 40% is leaving $100 on the table too much meat on the bone for you?

 

To be honest with myself I would probably hold to $400 for a key book like a ASM 50 unless its been on E-Bay for awhile and gone thru the boards sales threads without getting sold and then I'd be happy with $350. And that would go even more so if it was at a Con where I paid $1,000 to be there which I know is mental since its the same $350 in hand either way.

 

I just do not get enough buying opportunities of quality books at a discount where I need a stack of cash available at any given time. I've never said no to a killer sale because of lack of cash. I'd rather sit back and wait for the $450 (especially if it is realistic I can get that much in a couple weeks or a month on E-Bay ie hot book in nice grade). After fees I'm maybe quibbling over $50 but to me $50 is not pocket change. If my short box of big keys was overflowing with more coming in each week I'm sure my opinion would change in a heartbeat and may be why I'm limited when selling at bigger Cons.

[thehumantorch]

Can anyone explain the concept of having big ticket books as eye candy in a booth? I can understand having books like IH 181 CGC 9.2 or Hulk 1 CGC 4.0 in a booth if you think you can sell it but the concept of having those type of books to bring in the casual buyers escapes me (and even more confusing is it seems to work).

 

The vast majority of buyers at even big Cons don't have a desire to buy a book in that caliber but they flock to see the books . . why? I don't go to a Porsche dealership to drool at cars and while looking I grab a Honda Civic since I happen to be there. If anything I tend to avoid booths with the ultra high end books since I assume their prices are higher then the guys with mid range books since those are the books I want to buy.

 

Buying a car isn't like buying a comic. One is transportation and the other is an emotional need to collect. There are certainly people who have an emotional attachment to cars and if their was a dealership selling all makes of cars I'd imagine they'd stop and moon over the Porsche before finding the civic.

 

The big books draw attention and creates traffic. A guy who loves Wolverine will come in to drool over the Hulk 181 and then pick up the Wolverine mini. Perhaps his girlfriend will spot some Harley Quinn moderns and grab them.

 

And big books do sell, nothing we put up is there just to be eye candy. Every key we bring has a price that is at or above GPA by a small percentage. As a buyer if I see badly overpriced books I move on and don't go back.

[KPR Comics]

OP, I think you and I simply approach the business of selling from different viewpoints. Neither being wrong. For me, I focus on my cost and see anything above cost as the gravy I'm after. So I don't really care if GPA high of $500 was achieved a week ago if I paid $150 for the book. Sure, I'd love to get $350 in gravy, but I'm also inclined to sell it for $350 and be very happy with $200 in gravy. The whole pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered cliche are words I live by. Maybe I can't quickly or ever replace that book I just sold at a cost that would allow me to profit the next time, but who cares? I take the $350 gross and put it into another book(s). If you focus on 10% off GPA, 20%, etc., and draw those lines in the sand, then your margins are too skinny* to begin with and you can often times find yourself bringing that book home at the end of a show.

 

*This does not apply to the big boy dealers selling big boy books of course.

[blazingbob]

If $7K is your powder and holding out for $50 is your business plan then I'm not sure what else to say.

 

Unfortunately I see a lot of this, short term profit versus long term business relationships. That $350 sale to a dealer could turn into sales leads, splitting of deals, more sales of books between you and him, business knowledge etc.

 

$50 is pocket change when compared to what it could lead to.