Marvel has lost its way

[comicquant]

I don't personally know anyone who buys digital comics, maybe that's a bigger thing in the US than the UK?

 

Anyone interested in a 9.8 (digital) Hulk 181 with white pages? Only a fraction of the real deal, $500, .

 

Yeah it might be good for just a quick read, but in my opinion, comic book collectors should want the real thing, even for modern comics. I mean surely you want to possibly have a return on your $3-$20 investment, rather than it just being something virtual in cyberspace of no value or collectability?

 

I want something physical to show for my money, surprises me some others don't think the same :-(

 

All my subs are digital and when I buy a new Marvel book (SA, BA etc) I also read it digitally.

[Couchy81]

I just posted this in the Gotham thread in the TV and movies forum but felt it would be relevant to this thread as well.

 

I gotta say I'm loving how they are mirroring the current Batman comic crossover arc Night of the Monster Men with the tv show right now even though they are completely separate times and universes. It just makes it more enjoyable for me to see what young Bruce and the characters in Gotham would do if Hugo Strange created a bunch of monster men, and compare it to what current Bruce and the Bat Family would do in the comics if Hugo Strange unleashed a group of monster men on the city. The addition of Court of Owls and Talon on the show also reflect the most popular arc in Batman comics in the past decade.

 

It can't be coincidence, it's smart attention to detail on DC's part that a lot of people don't notice. Unlike Marvel, evidenced by this thead right now where people are hating the fact the movies dont relate to the current comics in any way whatsoever and are alienating their fan base with the butchering of beloved characters.

 

Just one of the reasons the only Marvel books Ive been buying the past year has been Star Wars and Darth Vader. I'm hoping they go back to their roots with Venom in November but who knows any more.

[herc2000]

I think those that have grown up with comic books, love them, and the hobby.

 

I think there's a new generation who just want to read it, which is fair enough, but what you're reading on your Ipad is not actually a comic book, so really you're not a comic book collectors in my opinion, because you don't actually have any comic books, just a library on your Ipad, .

 

That was my meaning about land on Mars, you may have pics, but in reality, the real world you have nothing, only in your MATRIX world. I also see plenty of recent modern runs selling for more than a nickel, maybe if you just have odds and sods, yeah, but if you're a collector, you'll have runs, and people will buy them!

 

Edge of Spider-Verse 2 $50-$60 value? How much is your digital copy worth?

NYX 3 $300? How much is your digital copy worth?

Batman new 52 1 $50-$80? How much is your digital copy worth?

Ms. Marvel 1 (new) $40-$80? How much is your digital copy worth?

Walking Dead's 1-100 $15-$1500? How much are your digital copies worth?

Wytches 1 $15-$30? How much is your digital copy worth?

Outcast 1 $25-$50? How much is your digital copy worth?

 

Tons of other series that were fetching good prices at one point, which would have made good returns are Saga, Revival, Detective (52), I-zombie, etc etc

 

Do you people who only buy digital copies, do you buy CGC copies of that? , to me people who only buy digital copies are not comic book collectors, you just read it on your Ipad, so you don't really need to go to a comic shop, you don't need to go to a comic convention do you, so what interest do you have other than whats on your Ipad?

 

If when comics were first created, we only had readers like you, then comics would not exist, because you would have bought it, and thrown it straight in the bin when you were done with it (I know this happened to lots of them anyway).

 

No one, when they first created comics expected them to have the lifetimes they've had, and maybe if everyone goes the way of these virtual only readers, then in 100 years, there will be no comics lefts :-(

 

The digital market is not for comic collectors, it's more for part time enthusiasts, who are not that into it, maybe they're younger and money is of no importance, after all, I grew up being taught every penny counts!

 

Moderns I don't want, I sell as sets, or I trade into exchange shops and I get a fair prices back ;-) thus getting some returns on my original investment, not always a profit no, but something back as opposed to guaranteed nothing back in the case of digital.

 

herc

 

 

 

 

 

[Scrooge]

The digital market is not for comic collectors, it's more for part time enthusiasts, who are not that into it, maybe they're younger and money is of no importance, after all, I grew up being taught every penny counts!

 

That's nonsense. A similar reverse argument can be easily made along the lines of: "The market for collectibles comics is not for comic collectors, it's more for part time dealers who are not that into it, maybe they're older and money is everything they think about; after all, they grew up being taught that every penny counts!"

 

Whether you read your comics in physical or digital format is irrelevant. My interest is to know that people are reading comics. If what Chuck Gower stated is true: there is little overlap between the physical and digital clientele, then so long as new or more people read through the digital mean, it's a check on the positive column.

 

I find it hard to take that you would place me in the "non-comic collectors" just b/c I have multiple digital subscription. I read comics constantly, I explore new genres and comics from new countries on a regular basis. Some of these are only available digitally (from a purely dollar-sense). I love that the digital world is making more material available. In an environment where we won't all read the same issue of ASM, having a cheap way to distribute the content being created is indispensable for the hobby to continue to thrive, to give people voices beyond small press publishers who are struggling, to allow online collaboration and create a marketplace for writers and artists to find each other, for artists in countries where comics are not traditional to broadcast their craft, digital comics are for comic collector / aficionado / enthusiast. Who the hell needs to have bought a print version of a comic to be officially crowned?

[Ryan.]

I think those that have grown up with comic books, love them, and the hobby.

 

I think there's a new generation who just want to read it, which is fair enough, but what you're reading on your Ipad is not actually a comic book, so really you're not a comic book collectors in my opinion, because you don't actually have any comic books, just a library on your Ipad, .

 

That was my meaning about land on Mars, you may have pics, but in reality, the real world you have nothing, only in your MATRIX world. I also see plenty of recent modern runs selling for more than a nickel, maybe if you just have odds and sods, yeah, but if you're a collector, you'll have runs, and people will buy them!

 

Edge of Spider-Verse 2 $50-$60 value? How much is your digital copy worth?

NYX 3 $300? How much is your digital copy worth?

Batman new 52 1 $50-$80? How much is your digital copy worth?

Ms. Marvel 1 (new) $40-$80? How much is your digital copy worth?

Walking Dead's 1-100 $15-$1500? How much are your digital copies worth?

Wytches 1 $15-$30? How much is your digital copy worth?

Outcast 1 $25-$50? How much is your digital copy worth?

 

Tons of other series that were fetching good prices at one point, which would have made good returns are Saga, Revival, Detective (52), I-zombie, etc etc

 

Do you people who only buy digital copies, do you buy CGC copies of that? , to me people who only buy digital copies are not comic book collectors, you just read it on your Ipad, so you don't really need to go to a comic shop, you don't need to go to a comic convention do you, so what interest do you have other than whats on your Ipad?

 

If when comics were first created, we only had readers like you, then comics would not exist, because you would have bought it, and thrown it straight in the bin when you were done with it (I know this happened to lots of them anyway).

 

No one, when they first created comics expected them to have the lifetimes they've had, and maybe if everyone goes the way of these virtual only readers, then in 100 years, there will be no comics lefts :-(

 

The digital market is not for comic collectors, it's more for part time enthusiasts, who are not that into it, maybe they're younger and money is of no importance, after all, I grew up being taught every penny counts!

 

Moderns I don't want, I sell as sets, or I trade into exchange shops and I get a fair prices back ;-) thus getting some returns on my original investment, not always a profit no, but something back as opposed to guaranteed nothing back in the case of digital.

 

herc

 

 

 

 

 

This whole post is just...weird.

[Buzzetta]

I think those that have grown up with comic books, love them, and the hobby.

 

I think there's a new generation who just want to read it, which is fair enough, but what you're reading on your Ipad is not actually a comic book, so really you're not a comic book collectors in my opinion, because you don't actually have any comic books, just a library on your Ipad, .

 

That was my meaning about land on Mars, you may have pics, but in reality, the real world you have nothing, only in your MATRIX world. I also see plenty of recent modern runs selling for more than a nickel, maybe if you just have odds and sods, yeah, but if you're a collector, you'll have runs, and people will buy them!

 

Edge of Spider-Verse 2 $50-$60 value? How much is your digital copy worth?

NYX 3 $300? How much is your digital copy worth?

Batman new 52 1 $50-$80? How much is your digital copy worth?

Ms. Marvel 1 (new) $40-$80? How much is your digital copy worth?

Walking Dead's 1-100 $15-$1500? How much are your digital copies worth?

Wytches 1 $15-$30? How much is your digital copy worth?

Outcast 1 $25-$50? How much is your digital copy worth?

 

Tons of other series that were fetching good prices at one point, which would have made good returns are Saga, Revival, Detective (52), I-zombie, etc etc

 

Do you people who only buy digital copies, do you buy CGC copies of that? , to me people who only buy digital copies are not comic book collectors, you just read it on your Ipad, so you don't really need to go to a comic shop, you don't need to go to a comic convention do you, so what interest do you have other than whats on your Ipad?

 

If when comics were first created, we only had readers like you, then comics would not exist, because you would have bought it, and thrown it straight in the bin when you were done with it (I know this happened to lots of them anyway).

 

No one, when they first created comics expected them to have the lifetimes they've had, and maybe if everyone goes the way of these virtual only readers, then in 100 years, there will be no comics lefts :-(

 

The digital market is not for comic collectors, it's more for part time enthusiasts, who are not that into it, maybe they're younger and money is of no importance, after all, I grew up being taught every penny counts!

 

Moderns I don't want, I sell as sets, or I trade into exchange shops and I get a fair prices back ;-) thus getting some returns on my original investment, not always a profit no, but something back as opposed to guaranteed nothing back in the case of digital.

 

herc

 

 

I remember this mindset in the 90's

 

Buy everything in the hopes that 1% of it is worth money then sell everything else at a loss. Nah... I learned early back then. Check out my list of things I have picked up while neglecting moderns...

 

I could list them... but go explore my registry sets...

 

 

[herc2000]

If everyone goes digital, that's pretty much the end of comic shops then?

[herc2000]

That may be you Buz, but some people don't get the older stuff and just get new releases ;-( also, don't buy everything, just buy what you enjoy reading, and don't speculate and buy multiples ;-)

[LOC Collectibles]

I switched over to Image and Valiant a long time ago..

[Davenport]

Do you people who only buy digital copies, do you buy CGC copies of that? , to me people who only buy digital copies are not comic book collectors, you just read it on your Ipad, so you don't really need to go to a comic shop, you don't need to go to a comic convention do you, so what interest do you have other than whats on your Ipad?

 

Sorry, but this made me laugh.

 

Without buying and warehousing boats can't be a sailor, even if they've spent a lifetime at sea? By your logic.

 

It's a storytelling medium, paper or digital, floppy or collected volume. Anyone enjoying the stories is as much of a fan as the archivist or temp-curator.

 

 

[herc2000]

Valiant have some real good comics out there, was impressed by the quality of art, writing and feel of comic.

[herc2000]

That does not make sense to me, of course they can be a fan by reading it in any form, but surely you can't class them as comic book collectors if they don't actually buy and collect comics? I could read a strip in a newspaper as well, would that make me a comic book collector, because I read strips in newspapers?

 

Am I a collector of boats, if I just have pictures of boats on my Ipad, but don't physically have boats? Yes I can like them, and be a fan, but I am no boat collector!

[1950's war comics]

I have read many times that millennials as a whole do not collect things or value possessions, they prefer to remain mobile, and who can blame them? The American dream opportunities are increasingly disappearing.

[VintageComics]

Do you people who only buy digital copies, do you buy CGC copies of that? , to me people who only buy digital copies are not comic book collectors, you just read it on your Ipad, so you don't really need to go to a comic shop, you don't need to go to a comic convention do you, so what interest do you have other than whats on your Ipad?

 

Sorry, but this made me laugh.

 

Without buying and warehousing boats can't be a sailor, even if they've spent a lifetime at sea? By your logic.

 

It's a storytelling medium, paper or digital, floppy or collected volume. Anyone enjoying the stories is as much of a fan as the archivist or temp-curator.

 

 

There's a difference between being a fan and a collector.

[dupont2005]

I think those that have grown up with comic books, love them, and the hobby.

 

I think there's a new generation who just want to read it, which is fair enough, but what you're reading on your Ipad is not actually a comic book, so really you're not a comic book collectors in my opinion, because you don't actually have any comic books, just a library on your Ipad, .

 

That was my meaning about land on Mars, you may have pics, but in reality, the real world you have nothing, only in your MATRIX world. I also see plenty of recent modern runs selling for more than a nickel, maybe if you just have odds and sods, yeah, but if you're a collector, you'll have runs, and people will buy them!

 

Edge of Spider-Verse 2 $50-$60 value? How much is your digital copy worth?

NYX 3 $300? How much is your digital copy worth?

Batman new 52 1 $50-$80? How much is your digital copy worth?

Ms. Marvel 1 (new) $40-$80? How much is your digital copy worth?

Walking Dead's 1-100 $15-$1500? How much are your digital copies worth?

Wytches 1 $15-$30? How much is your digital copy worth?

Outcast 1 $25-$50? How much is your digital copy worth?

 

Tons of other series that were fetching good prices at one point, which would have made good returns are Saga, Revival, Detective (52), I-zombie, etc etc

 

Do you people who only buy digital copies, do you buy CGC copies of that? , to me people who only buy digital copies are not comic book collectors, you just read it on your Ipad, so you don't really need to go to a comic shop, you don't need to go to a comic convention do you, so what interest do you have other than whats on your Ipad?

 

If when comics were first created, we only had readers like you, then comics would not exist, because you would have bought it, and thrown it straight in the bin when you were done with it (I know this happened to lots of them anyway).

 

No one, when they first created comics expected them to have the lifetimes they've had, and maybe if everyone goes the way of these virtual only readers, then in 100 years, there will be no comics lefts :-(

 

The digital market is not for comic collectors, it's more for part time enthusiasts, who are not that into it, maybe they're younger and money is of no importance, after all, I grew up being taught every penny counts!

 

Moderns I don't want, I sell as sets, or I trade into exchange shops and I get a fair prices back ;-) thus getting some returns on my original investment, not always a profit no, but something back as opposed to guaranteed nothing back in the case of digital.

 

herc

 

 

 

 

you can't seriously be arguing that modern comics as a while are more likely to appreciate than depreciate. It's a losing game. Batman #1 worth $80. What about all the other floppies you bought over the past ten years? Mostly worth nothing. In the past couple years I must have sold 7500 comics and out of those maybe 100 were worth selling individually. The rest went in bulk for pennies on the dollar. Just a few weeks ago I dropped off a cart full of Usagi Yojimbo comics and Vertigo TPB's I couldn't sell for a buck each.

 

[dupont2005]

If everyone goes digital, that's pretty much the end of comic shops then?

Sure. Just like the end of record stores, book stores, video rental stores, etc. But you can still buy and rent movies (cheaper than ever with a larger selection and in any format you please). Comics will be fine without the direct market. Maybe even better. They were better before the direct market, and in European and Asian nations without a direct market they seem to be less a niche market for nerds and more a mainstream medium just about everyone consumes.

[herc2000]

No of course not, but take into account the enjoyment they gave you as well.

 

Say a set of Green Lantern 52's 1-12 cost me $40, I had fun with them, but now I'm going to pass them on to another, so they can get some enjoyment out of it, even if I sell them at a loss and get $20, I'm still getting $20 back of my original investment of $40 which is better than nothing, as in the case with digital.

 

Digital Comics $40, that's it, gone.

 

Physical Comics $40, if you don't want them anymore, sell it, yeah it's a loss in this case, but still $20 back, so I'm $20 out as opposed to digitals $40.

 

And you can keep new comics in good condition without bags and boards, look at the pedigree collections, they never had bags and boards as far I know.

[THE_BEYONDER]

No of course not, but take into account the enjoyment they gave you as well.

 

Say a set of Green Lantern 52's 1-12 cost me $40, I had fun with them, but now I'm going to pass them on to another, so they can get some enjoyment out of it, even if I sell them at a loss and get $20, I'm still getting $20 back of my original investment of $40 which is better than nothing, as in the case with digital.

 

Digital Comics $40, that's it, gone.

 

Physical Comics $40, if you don't want them anymore, sell it, yeah it's a loss in this case, but still $20 back, so I'm $20 out as opposed to digitals $40.

 

And you can keep new comics in good condition without bags and boards, look at the pedigree collections, they never had bags and boards as far I know.

 

How many digital comics does one get for $40?

[Buzzetta]

If everyone goes digital, that's pretty much the end of comic shops then?

 

Comic shops in the traditional sense.

 

And if that is the case then... Honestly... who cares?

 

We may not be approaching it as quickly as the doomsday sayers claim, but eventually whether it be in the next twenty years or the next hundred years, print media will no longer make sense let alone be used.

 

Times change... technology progresses. I am noticing that a majority of comic shops that close failed to adapt. Forbidden Comics in Manhattan seems to sell actual comic books second to everything else associated with comic book characters. Comic shops need to figure something out if they want to remain viable as Americans fast increase their digital consumption.

 

Print media will continue to thrive in other nations where many still do not have access to iPads or computers. Many kids today are drifting away from comics and those that do are savvy enough to download them illegally. Seriously? Why spend $4 an issue to read 22 pages of faces with word balloons? Every 15 issues a teen would buy for 5-7 minutes worth of entertainment could easily be spent on a video game for hours of entertainment based on the same character? Why read about Iron Man? You could BE Iron Man.

 

This is why comics is not for kids anymore. Marvel knows this. To get back to the original conversation, Marvel is not attracting any NEW 30 year olds into the fold to check out their books. They need to attract NEW lifelong readers and to do that they need to change things up. That's why they are tweaking NEW versions of the same old characters.

 

There is a lot more competition to comic books for a teenager's money than there was when we were kids. I see this happen in the toy industry. Over on Hisstank they are whining that GI Joe is not being made for the adult collector and that the toy aisles of 2016 no longer look like 1986. Over on Rebel Scum (and I have been one of the whiners over there) they are complaining that 5 points of articulation is not made for the long term Star Wars fan. This is because ALL of this from the comics to the toys to the related items are designed for kids in the hopes that they keep buying up to the normal point that they stop and then they rinse and repeat and attract more kids to the fold.

 

No one wants to admit it... but it is eventually coming and more and more items will be primarily published online.

 

Personally I foresee the day of monthly periodicals to completely end first. Then the issues will be released via a Netflix style service via 'seasons' of comics books. From there... if you really want a collected version you can buy the TPB.

 

But what about the comic collector who wants to open and feel and touch? That time is up much like weekly episodic TV is slowly dying. Comics are not made to stave off the 30-40 year old collector from dropping more titles. Marvel and DC are focused on adding new players to the mix.

[herc2000]

1. I thought records were on the come back? Plenty of stores in London.

2. There's a reason why video stores went bust and I know all about it, it's the same thing with new comics, its greed!

 

The makers wants all the profits, this is exactly what happened to the video market. Blockbuster used to get the latest movies, 6 months before they were released in shops like HMV. After three months of renting them out, they would usually sell the movies as ex rentals, get back costs for the high priced movies, and in some cases make a profit!

 

The distributors did not like this, so they screwed over shops like Blockbuster and made it so that Blockbuster would no longer get the 6 month threshold, and they would release them the same time as selling them to Blockbuster, so I could rent it from Blockbuster for £3, or buy it in HMV for £10. What else happened here was, Blockbuster still had to pay the original high costs for a movie, which was anything from £30-£50 each, even though HMV would be getting there's at a much lower rate.

 

So they screwed the video chains here. Then more so recently in the UK, Blockbuster was actually making profits, but the investors who bought them out, wanted a quick profit, turn around, so they went to sell the Blockbuster stores here to some buyer, but Blockbuster USA (whoever owns that) would not give them permission to do Blockbuster (UK) online streaming, so they closed shop, as they knew they could never go online.

 

It's all about greed, big companies want it all. Will be a sad day if comic shops go, but that being said, it might be more so to do with the bad quality of writing, stories, art, rather than digital.

 

And of course Marvel and DC would like it all to go digital, no printing costs, no diamond or anyone else to worry about, all the money goes to them, no middle men!