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My NYCC report in regards to GA only

123 posts in this topic

I believe in being 'FAIR"

 

 

I only buy from dealers who are at least VG. :sumo:

 

I thought Bob was more of a Fine- with Slight (A).

 

lol. Mr Storms you are the definition of fair when it comes to a seller.

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As a buyer who is new to the whole better key market, it is difficult to jump in and know who to trust, and who is willing to give a fair deal. I feel I have a good handle on the books that I am interested in, and am willing to deal. But if I walk up to a seller I have never dealt with, I have no clue if they are a good seller. I can easily see the price on the wall, and know where that falls based on my grading an my knowledge. If the price seems way over I view that as a non starter, when maybe I should not. How much is it worth starting negotiations with multiple people in those circumstances?

 

The other difficulty buying comics is the whole what is the grade business. I may be firmly convinced a book is a 6, while the seller is convinced it is a 7. That can make a monstrous difference in price. If two people see grading very differently, it may become impossible to bridge a price gap.

 

I just need to learn who to trust, but that is a very difficult thing to learn when I go to one or two cons per years, and do not know which posters here are which dealers in the real world.

 

My strong advice is that if you are paying more than $1K for a GA book, buy it graded. Even good dealers occasionally miss resto or a bit of flaking that CGC will consider "Slightly brittle." They may or may not be good about taking a book back after it returns from CGC in a purple label or with disastrous pq. At a minimum, dealing with it is a hassle.

 

Again, it's human nature for a dealer to err on the high side when grading a raw book. Let CGC make the call as to whether the book is a 6.0 or a 7.0 -- particularly when significant money rides on the difference. And, frankly, there are dealers who routinely grade a book down when buying it and list the book at a higher grade when selling it. Those guys you should avoid, needless to say.

 

I wouldn't be shy about making an offer 20% or so below what they are asking. I never get argumentative about it or start quoting GPA. If a dealer doesn't want to deal, he won't be reluctant to say no. If he won't even counter your reasonable offer on an book that's priced way above FMV, then you should probably put him in the category Steve discussed above of dealers to pass by in the future.

 

As you can tell from some of the comments dealers have posted in this thread, sometimes they get jaded when the ratio of tire kickers to serious buyers gets too high. As a result they may seem less than enthusiastic in engaging you. A bit of persistence may allow you to communicate that you are seriously interested in a book and may well buy it in the neighborhood of what they are asking.

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As you can tell from some of the comments dealers have posted in this thread, sometimes they get jaded when the ratio of tire kickers to serious buyers gets too high. As a result they may seem less than enthusiastic in engaging you. A bit of persistence may allow you to communicate that you are seriously interested in a book and may well buy it in the neighborhood of what they are asking.

 

I don't know if jaded is the right word. Annoyed is a better word.

 

For every story posted on this chat forum about 'bad sellers' there are just as many stories, if not more about 'bad buyers'.

 

Some are unreasonable, some are unfair and some just downright lie.

 

Unfortunately, dealers have to walk a delicate line because you don't want to alienate potential customers.

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As you can tell from some of the comments dealers have posted in this thread, sometimes they get jaded when the ratio of tire kickers to serious buyers gets too high. As a result they may seem less than enthusiastic in engaging you. A bit of persistence may allow you to communicate that you are seriously interested in a book and may well buy it in the neighborhood of what they are asking.

 

I don't know if jaded is the right word. Annoyed is a better word.

 

For every story posted on this chat forum about 'bad sellers' there are just as many stories, if not more about 'bad buyers'.

 

Some are unreasonable, some are unfair and some just downright lie.

 

Unfortunately, dealers have to walk a delicate line because you don't want to alienate potential customers.

 

^^

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We all can come up with individual stories about good/bad buyers/sellers, but it's really overall long-term impressions and general reputations which probably affect our dealing habits the most.

 

As I noted in the other thread, dealers who consistently grossly overprice their books get an automatic pass from me. Marvel Comics 1 in 4.0 for $120,000? Uh, no thanks.

 

As the years go by, I find myself interacting with the same sellers whom I trust and who I can work with. Some price high and then give a healthy discount. Others price close to their margin and don't discount much (if at all). Either way, the bottom line is often the same.

 

Of all my dealer purchases, 98% comes from the same handful of sellers - the rest of the other guys, well they might as well be museums.

 

I'm in the same boat Steve. Dealers who over grade, over price, won't work with me or are just jerks in general get a pass from me. Unfortunately, that narrows the pool down quite a bit some times. There are a couple of dealers that fall into these categories for me that you all buy from regularly. Don't want to bash any here. The chemestry just isn't for me.

 

I like to find the smaller very motivated individual sellers at a con. There is always at least one guy stuck over with the toys and t-shirts who is having a bad day and has a few nice books. Almost every show I find that guy and walk off with something great. Just gotta walk the floor and look hard for that deal.

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Some, some buyers want dealers to pay above retail and sell for wholesale.

 

 

 

 

Had that conversation with a "customer" this past weekend. Wanted to buy a graded X-Men #1 at 85% of current retail rate. I explained we pay upwards of 90% to get them. His response, "just sell it to me and make your profit on somebody else". Yes, he we serious.

 

As a collector, i think its fair to sell to a dealer at 5 percent to 10 percent off retail. I don't have to pay the 10 percent to the auction house. Also fair to buy at retail or slightly above. Builds a good relationship

 

It's all going to be a matter of how quickly either you need the money or how quickly the dealer moves the book.

 

I generally wouldn't by a book at 5-10% of retail unless I had a customer specifically waiting in the wings for a copy.

 

In most cases, I wouldn't consider expecting a dealer to pay 5% of retail very fair and even 10% is questionable (although the book and the deal would have to be factored in).

 

An argument can be made for a book that is on a meaningful upward trajectory but that is the exception and not the rule.

 

 

I should have been more specific and mention that the books I sell to dealers tend to have upward trajectory, one that they can sell within 1 or 2 months. specifically for me, its been unrestored af15 that's worth at least 10k or more with no marvel chipping and good eye appeal. For such a book, it's fair for me and the seller to have the book 5-10 percent off of retail. benefits both parties with such a transaction. This seems to work for me since I've repeatedly sold to the same sellers and our relationship I hope is a good one.

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As you can tell from some of the comments dealers have posted in this thread, sometimes they get jaded when the ratio of tire kickers to serious buyers gets too high. As a result they may seem less than enthusiastic in engaging you. A bit of persistence may allow you to communicate that you are seriously interested in a book and may well buy it in the neighborhood of what they are asking.

 

I don't know if jaded is the right word. Annoyed is a better word.

 

For every story posted on this chat forum about 'bad sellers' there are just as many stories, if not more about 'bad buyers'.

 

Some are unreasonable, some are unfair and some just downright lie.

 

Unfortunately, dealers have to walk a delicate line because you don't want to alienate potential customers.

 

I feel for you. A dealer friend of mine used to set up at London marts.There was one guy who used to come to his booth and sit on the DC war boxes the whole day, thumbing through every single issue, and never buying a single one. Used to drive my buddy up the wall, but he never felt able to say anything.

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Heavens, most dealers have to pay GPA or higher just to replace keys into their inventory, and so they are supposed to take losses simply because one small sample of the hobby's sales says their prices are too high?

 

Devil's advocate here... if everyone knows the going rate, and there are other comparable copies out there, whose fault is it that a dealer overpays for a book, just so he can say he has one?

 

How does everyone know the going rate? If you are referring to GPA as the going rate, then I guess will just have to agree to disagree.

 

Some still think Overstreet is the going rate on low grade AF 15's. They are also wrong.

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Interesting that there is so little GPA sales data since 2015 for unrestored MC#1 copies.

 

A serious problem with GPA in my opinion is the data is eBay sales data only. In addition, if the seller doesn't provide the CGC cert # as an eBay provided attribute on the item it won't be included in GPA's analytics. It's most likely a small sample of overall sales so there is no way to judge its overall accuracy. If GPA incorporated sales from the large auction houses and top sellers outside of eBay you'd see a blanket drop in prices which account for eBay sellers baking in seller's fees. Its a good reference point but shouldn't be considered the hard line.

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eBay is not the only source.

 

Although likely one of the largest, it's one of several including Heritage Auctions and select dealer submissions of data.

 

 

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I'm not sure annoyed is the right word either.

 

I will use Reed NY as an example.

 

Reed NY setup is Tuesday/Wednesday.

 

Tuesday I arrived at 10:00am, didn't get up to the back of lend a hand load in area until 1:30PM (3 1/2 hour wait). You then have to quickly build a pallet. Unload that pallet, build the booth, go home.

 

Wednesday - Took train in to "relax". 3 hours later due to Mineola rail breakage I got in at 12:30. Spent 5 hours looking at books, showing books to other dealers.

 

Show hours to the public were Thursday - Saturday hours were 10-7, Sunday 10-5, I was arriving at 8:00-8:30 AM every day. By Thursday I and many other dealers had put in two days of work.

 

From other dealer posts about backs and feet hurting I'm right there with them. I hope people realize that I am not and probably never will be back to 100% recovered from CIDP (Chronic Inflammatory Demyelinating Polyneuropathy) If you need to know what I have feel free to click on the link - http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/cidp/cidp.htm.

 

The buyer logic that on Sunday dealers are ready to "deal" is probably ok with some but by Sunday I am in a lot of pain, exhausted and frankly looking to go home. Sunday is the worst day to try and get a good deal out of me.

 

 

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Very good post Bob. I always say that buyers need to spend a day or two on your side of the booth to really appreciate what you do to bring them nice material for them to buy. I really doubt most know how slim the profit margin is on them either.

 

I understand and appreciate what you guys have to do. VERY few comic dealers are getting rich doing it. I try to spread my dough around a show a little to the dealers that are worthy of it

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I like to find the smaller very motivated individual sellers at a con. There is always at least one guy stuck over with the toys and t-shirts who is having a bad day and has a few nice books. Almost every show I find that guy and walk off with something great. Just gotta walk the floor and look hard for that deal.

 

What the dealers are saying is that everyone's trying to vulture a deal, and no one's paying full price for anything. A good deal is fun, but it doesn't lend itself to the continued health of the seller.

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I would like to say that i hardly ever if ever ask for a deal at a show i'm just not a haggler in person. I pay full asking almost every time and if you would ask a few boardies sometimes even more haha!! As long as it's priced right!! (now online is different i guess it's much easier for me to negotiate books over the internet but shows are actual work for the sellers almost anyone can buy and sell online these days.) I just want the people to keep setting up at shows!! i know it's a ton of work and not from experience i can just see and imagine it!! As i so rarely get to go i don't want to show up one day and there be no comics at all at the "comic convention"!! I want to take my kids like my folks used to take me to the old hotel/mall shows :cloud9:

 

My last con purchases over the past 5 yrs i know it's not much but goes to show not every single buyer is looking for the deal of a century and trying to haggle gold/silver/and bronze down to cover prices...

 

Action 23 - got 50 off to make the number even

Action 242 - paid asking

Tales to Astonish 35 - paid asking

Tec 73 - paid asking

ASM 136 - paid 5-10 dollars more told him to keep the change and good luck at the show have fun :o

Catman #2 - paid asking

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