Finger bends after pressing? 0

[Mayor006]

I would think there's no way to eliminate moving it from the presser's hands and placing it in the storage of CGC until ready for grading, so there will be handling no matter who you use. In-house pressing or off-site.

 

So back to my question again "Since there is apparently no way to know when the finger bends occurred and the book was downgraded because of them, what's the point in getting it pressed at all?"

 

About the only resolution I can come up is that on average this happens rarely. If it was the norm, there would be absolutely no reason to press a book. You would simply be trading one defect such as a non-color breaking spine bend for a finger bend somewhere else. Problem is for me, it appears to be more the norm. If anyone has any input on whether they are seeing these a lot on their pressed grader notes I would be interested in hearing how often.

[Bomber-Bob]

Transparent much Bob?

Not sure what your question is ?

Edited October 14, 2016 by bomber-bob

[Mayor006]

 

At the graders they are received, and then put into different boxes. They are then verified (identifying all the books are there). The pages are counted. The inside of the covers are inspected for defects and stains. The outside covers are examined for defects and stains. The staples are checked for rust. The book is checked for resto. Then they are placed back into the bag and board and await encapsulation. Granted, any impact on the grade would happen before the graders get to them, but we would be fooling ourselves if we think nothing can ever happen to a book once it is in the hands of a grader or the encapsulation person.

 

 

Without getting too much into anything else it's the counting of the pages and the inspection of the inside of the covers, and the restoration check that I wonder about more than anything else. How could one possibly do this without occasionally causing bends?

 

Again, I'm not looking to place blame, I want to know what others think about the entire process because right now I'm more than a little disenchanted from beginning to end.

 

 

[Mayor006]

And going back to the Wonder Woman.....

 

You can't really tell from the scans but there are bends that run about half the length of the book that were not there when I sent it in. Blame it on delivery, storage, whatever, but I also have another book with almost the exact same problems that was given a 9.4

 

Just looking for consistency.

[docdimento]

 

If a box is received damaged, or dropped I would expect to be informed. There's a reason I buy insurance on these packages after all. Probably expecting too much here, but it is what it is.

 

This covers from you to the presser. But what if the presser packs the books poorly ? What if the presser hand delivers the books to CGC ? The presser is handling the books so much more than the graders = much higher probability of that's way the finger bends occurred.

 

I cannot speak for others, but once I am done with the books they go directly back into the bag and board. Once in the bag and board they go into sturdy plastic file boxes where they stay until I can drive the books down to the graders.

 

At the graders they are received, and then put into different boxes. They are then verified (identifying all the books are there). The pages are counted. The inside of the covers are inspected for defects and stains. The outside covers are examined for defects and stains. The staples are checked for rust. The book is checked for resto. Then they are placed back into the bag and board and await encapsulation. Granted, any impact on the grade would happen before the graders get to them, but we would be fooling ourselves if we think nothing can ever happen to a book once it is in the hands of a grader or the encapsulation person.

 

Transparent much Bob?

 

This is why I chose Joey to press my Hulk 181 and Werewolf 32. Can't wait to see how they turn out

[Batman]

And going back to the Wonder Woman.....

 

You can't really tell from the scans but there are bends that run about half the length of the book that were not there when I sent it in. Blame it on delivery, storage, whatever, but I also have another book with almost the exact same problems that was given a 9.4

 

Just looking for consistency.

I had a book with a bend in the back cover that was barely visible to the naked eye. I knew it was risky but sent it anyway. It came back 7.0, with the bend as the only defect noted by the grader.

 

I would suggest getting the book pressed again and resubmit. It's an 8.0, so you have nothing to lose.

[Gaard]

A couple of questions for the OP:

 

"Since there is apparently no way to know when the finger bends occurred and the book was downgraded because of them, what's the point in getting it pressed at all?"

 

Were you aware of any finger bends before shipping them off?

 

Didn't you say you average 500 books/year going to CGC? Are you aware of any (of those 100's of books) having finger bends beforehand and not having them afterwards?

 

[drotto]

I think the greatest risk to any book is going to be shipping, due to the handling of the package as well as the changing environmental conditions the book may be exposed to. Yes, there is the potential for damage after pressing and then shipment to CGC and in the initial verification and storage at CGC. Once the book is graded, in theory damage while waiting for encapsulation and QC would no affect reported grade since it has already been graded. But the handling of the book should be minimal. I would hope that the people doing those steps would be well trained an knowledgeable about how to handle a book properly.

 

As Joey said, after pressing he basically places them back into the bags and board, lets them rest for a few days, and off to the grader they go. That really sounds like minimal handle occurs at that point. So damage is unlikely of the type you are describing.

 

So the main question becomes how are the books handled and who does the handling at CGC? I also believe that this is NOT a widespread issue, as it would seriously damage their business if it happened routinely. Can accidents occur on rare occasions, certainly, so you just may have gotten unlucky here. The only other possibility is that it was missed earlier in the process, or the press for whatever reason either reverted or did not correct the issue.

 

I had a modern book I submitted last year (no I have not read the notes it is just not worth the $5 for that particular book). that I though was NM or close to it. Now that book was not pressed, and I had bought it off the rack myself. But it got absolutely hammered at a 7.5. I have learned much about grading since then, personally do not see the book as a 7.5 still, but it happens. Everything else I submitted with that book came back about what I expected.

Edited October 15, 2016 by drotto

[Topnotchman]

I would be in the camp that finger bends after pressing would lean toward a poor press job, or perhaps the order never got pressed at all due to an administrative mistake. A corner crease is likely a flaw that the OP missed during pre screen and was there the whole time.

[Red_Hood]

Non color break finger bends should come out with a full service pressing.

 

I should point out that finger bends are easy to create, so it is possible they could have occurred after the pressing.

 

+1

 

+2

 

I'll also add that I'm beginning to suspect pressed books are on a harsher

"grading curve" compared to non pressed books.

ie. The graders will hammer minute flaws on pressed books such as lite finger bends whereas they would appear to over look this on non pressed books.

[Logan510]

Non color break finger bends should come out with a full service pressing.

 

I should point out that finger bends are easy to create, so it is possible they could have occurred after the pressing.

 

+1

 

+2

 

I'll also add that I'm beginning to suspect pressed books are on a harsher

"grading curve" compared to non pressed books.

ie. The graders will hammer minute flaws on pressed books such as lite finger bends whereas they would appear to over look this on non pressed books.

 

If they allegedly can't tell if a book is pressed and the graders don't know whose books they're grading or where they came from...

[BlowUpTheMoon]

Non color break finger bends should come out with a full service pressing.

 

I should point out that finger bends are easy to create, so it is possible they could have occurred after the pressing.

 

+1

 

+2

 

I'll also add that I'm beginning to suspect pressed books are on a harsher

"grading curve" compared to non pressed books.

ie. The graders will hammer minute flaws on pressed books such as lite finger bends whereas they would appear to over look this on non pressed books.

 

If they allegedly can't tell if a book is pressed and the graders don't know whose books they're grading or where they came from...

 

Consistently.

 

If they consistently allegedly can't tell if a book is pressed.

 

 

[Logan510]

Non color break finger bends should come out with a full service pressing.

 

I should point out that finger bends are easy to create, so it is possible they could have occurred after the pressing.

 

+1

 

+2

 

I'll also add that I'm beginning to suspect pressed books are on a harsher

"grading curve" compared to non pressed books.

ie. The graders will hammer minute flaws on pressed books such as lite finger bends whereas they would appear to over look this on non pressed books.

 

If they allegedly can't tell if a book is pressed and the graders don't know whose books they're grading or where they came from...

 

Consistently.

 

If they consistently allegedly can't tell if a book is pressed.

 

 

Thank you, I knew it was one of those

[drotto]

With pressing they reportedly can't tell. I think they can tell on occasion, meaning when there is a bad press job.

[Mayor006]

Well, this conversation took on a life of its own!

 

My neck hurts a lot less now, so I'm being more reasonable. I would like to throw this question out there though... anyone have any thoughts on whether finger bends are more likely in a particular era? Modern/GA/SA you get what I mean? Sure, foil books are an entire different breed, but based on paper used is my question.

[joeypost]

The thinner the cover stock, the easier to introduce dents. You have to go out of your way to introduce a finger dent on a golden age book, while all you have to do is glare menacingly at some moderns for it to happen.

Edited October 18, 2016 by joeypost

[Hero Restoration]

The thinner the cover stock, the easier to introduce dents. You have to go out of your way to introduce a finger dent on a golden age book while all you have to do is fare menacingly at some moderns for it to happen.

 

+1 Super thin.

[Mayor006]

Good to know. It will help me choose the books I send for future pressing.

[comixry]

Reviving this thread...after seeing the FB post of the handling of Supe 1. Clean hands = no fingerprints, but finger bends...that's another story.