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What point deduction for one popped staple

47 posts in this topic

So am I correct in surmising that roughly the following occurs if blue label is given:-

 

An otherwise grade 9.0 would drop to around 7.0 or 6.0

 

An otherwise grade 7.0 would drop to around 6.0 or 5.0

 

An otherwise grade 5.0 would drop to around 4.0 or 4.5.

 

Of course it appears a green label is another kettle of fish altogether and naturally also what mood the grader woke up to in that morning hm

 

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1962 silver age. Was a really great copy with just a couple of small indents in the cover. I decided to have CCS press it before being graded. The cover was solidly attached when I sent it in...by the time it got to CGC it was detached. Very sad. I know that CCS had a discussion with CGC regarding who was at fault. I believe that it would have graded an 8.5 and possibly a 9.0. Folks keep saying it must be a mistake but it was that nice.

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There's always some risk in pressing a book that a book can be damaged during the process. Heck, if the staples are tight it could happen at any time.

 

Sorry to hear that.

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So am I correct in surmising that roughly the following occurs if blue label is given:-

 

An otherwise grade 9.0 would drop to around 7.0 or 6.0

 

An otherwise grade 7.0 would drop to around 6.0 or 5.0

 

An otherwise grade 5.0 would drop to around 4.0 or 4.5.

 

Of course it appears a green label is another kettle of fish altogether and naturally also what mood the grader woke up to in that morning hm

 

I'm not sure there is an exact science to it, or some type of algorithm.

 

Using your numbers:

 

I think if you had a 9.0 (minus a big defect); but with the defect a 6.0 - it may be a Green label because there is too much of a difference in grade.

 

if you had a 7.0 (minus a big defect); but with the defect a 5.0 - it'd probably get a blue label... not as much of a drop off.

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I'm not sure there is an exact science to it, or some type of algorithm.

 

Pity, I was hoping there was hence my post, as surely popped staples are fairly common.

 

Boy trying to get my head around this grading malarkey in doing my head in. doh!

:hi:

 

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I do have a copy of Detective Comics 359 in CGC 6.5 due to a spine split.

 

The book is otherwise a 8.0-8.5, and it's a blue label

 

Spine split is a totally different grading situation. Spine splits don't get Green Labels and, depending on their size, are usually treated less harshly.

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So am I correct in surmising that roughly the following occurs if blue label is given:-

 

An otherwise grade 9.0 would drop to around 7.0 or 6.0

 

An otherwise grade 7.0 would drop to around 6.0 or 5.0

 

An otherwise grade 5.0 would drop to around 4.0 or 4.5.

 

 

You can surmise all you want but your Rule of Thumb is not necessarily CGC's. Do you actually think CGC would acknowledge your Rule of Thumb when discussing a grade ?

Your question cannot be answered because there is no answer. CGC grading is not an exact science, just a very educated 'guess' at the grade.

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Hi all

 

Is there a definitive point deduction for grading a comic, which has just one popped staple?

 

For example bottom staple attached throughout pages and cover, top staple detached from cover but all pages attached.

 

My apologies if the answer is obvious and well known however I cannot seem to find it in my searches.

 

Cheers

 

 

You should check out the sticky thread at top of this forum with title:

An In-Depth Comparison of Green Label and Blue Label Grading

 

 

 

In the first post (complete with pics as e.g.) it states, based on actual blue label books [scroll down to "Blue Label Equivalents for Category 2:"]:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=4421055#Post4421055

 

"Since the detachment defect is the primary (or perhaps even sole) flaw, these high-grade examples reveal the approximate deduction that CGC takes for a specific detachment defect when it is not ignored. On this basis, it appears that: a lightly worn book with a cover detached at a single staple will have a Universal Grade of 7.0 to 7.5; a book with a completely detached cover will have a Universal Grade of 4.0 or lower (depending on the severity of its other defects); a pristine book with a centerfold detached at a single staple will have a Universal Grade as high as 9.2 or 9.4; and a lightly worn book with a completely detached centerfold will have a Universal Grade of 6.5 to 7.0. Note: DC comics from the mid-1960s were manufactured with relatively thin cover stock and are especially prone to suffering a “blown” staple."

 

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You should check out the sticky thread at top of this forum with title:

An In-Depth Comparison of Green Label and Blue Label Grading

 

 

 

In the first post (complete with pics as e.g.) it states, based on actual blue label books [scroll down to "Blue Label Equivalents for Category 2:"]:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=4421055#Post4421055

 

"Since the detachment defect is the primary (or perhaps even sole) flaw, these high-grade examples reveal the approximate deduction that CGC takes for a specific detachment defect when it is not ignored. On this basis, it appears that: a lightly worn book with a cover detached at a single staple will have a Universal Grade of 7.0 to 7.5; a book with a completely detached cover will have a Universal Grade of 4.0 or lower (depending on the severity of its other defects); a pristine book with a centerfold detached at a single staple will have a Universal Grade as high as 9.2 or 9.4; and a lightly worn book with a completely detached centerfold will have a Universal Grade of 6.5 to 7.0. Note: DC comics from the mid-1960s were manufactured with relatively thin cover stock and are especially prone to suffering a “blown” staple."

 

Hi grebal many thanks that’s a great link, exactly what I was hoping to find when I originally posted….good man :applause:

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Hi all

 

Is there a definitive point deduction for grading a comic, which has just one popped staple?

 

For example bottom staple attached throughout pages and cover, top staple detached from cover but all pages attached.

 

My apologies if the answer is obvious and well known however I cannot seem to find it in my searches.

 

Cheers

 

 

You should check out the sticky thread at top of this forum with title:

An In-Depth Comparison of Green Label and Blue Label Grading

 

 

 

In the first post (complete with pics as e.g.) it states, based on actual blue label books [scroll down to "Blue Label Equivalents for Category 2:"]:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=4421055#Post4421055

 

"Since the detachment defect is the primary (or perhaps even sole) flaw, these high-grade examples reveal the approximate deduction that CGC takes for a specific detachment defect when it is not ignored. On this basis, it appears that: a lightly worn book with a cover detached at a single staple will have a Universal Grade of 7.0 to 7.5; a book with a completely detached cover will have a Universal Grade of 4.0 or lower (depending on the severity of its other defects); a pristine book with a centerfold detached at a single staple will have a Universal Grade as high as 9.2 or 9.4; and a lightly worn book with a completely detached centerfold will have a Universal Grade of 6.5 to 7.0. Note: DC comics from the mid-1960s were manufactured with relatively thin cover stock and are especially prone to suffering a “blown” staple."

 

Unless someone has more experience I'm going to have to disagree with part of the above paragraph.

 

I don't think I've ever seen a popped staple (on a two staple book) grade out as high as 7.0 or 7.5. My rule of thumb has always been that a fully popped staple grades out at the top end of the VG range, so VG/F

 

Now you can have staple tears (which are different than completely popped staples) at that grade range and in my experience, staple tears on one staple usually put the book in the 7.0/7.5 range (obviously depending on the length of the tears and what the rest of the book looks like).

 

Staple tears on both staples (on a two staple book) can bring a book down to the low Fine range, or 5.5 in my experience.

 

I've never seen a book grade higher than VG+ / 4.5 with two popped staples although the norm is usually 4.0 for an otherwise nice looking book.

 

Again, all of the defects need to be assessed in the grade, so if a book would grade below VG without taking the popped staples into account, then the above defects would likely detract further from the otherwise VG grade.

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^ I agree with a lot of that.

 

But you should touch base with the OP, "zzutak."

 

I found his thread a great resource.

 

Hi grebal many thanks that’s a great link, exactly what I was hoping to find when I originally posted….good man :applause:

My pleasure bud.

When I went searching for where I'd last seen it, I was surprised to find it at top with the stickies. I'd first found it a few months ago when researching, like you, for some rules of thumb, but then lost track of it a while.

 

ONE CAVEAT: golden age books generally get a bump in GCC grading, which might account for slightly (one, sometimes two, grade increments higher) higher grades realized in the examples in the thread.

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CGC doesn't grade the way they used to IMO so many of those old rules of thumb many no longer apply. Just be aware of this.

 

THIS . Very true. Different head graders, different opinions, new rules of Thumb. In general, Rules of Thumb evolve and change over time anyway. I'm not sure but I would suspect no one from the original grading team is still there ?

IMO, trying to establish Rules of Thumb and grading standards is interesting reading but nothing more. I remember submitting an incredible copy of a Silver Age book from the Winnipeg collection. These books had the OO's name neatly written at the top of the book. It received a 9.2. I called (this was before Grader's notes when they would discuss on the phone) and asked why the book was not 9.4 . I was told by the grader that finalized the book that 9.2 is the highest grade they will give with a signature. I moved the book along and a couple years later it was resubbed by the new owner and was 9.4 . So much for Rules of Thumb.

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I'm going to have to disagree with part of the above paragraph. I don't think I've ever seen a popped staple (on a two staple book) grade out as high as 7.0 or 7.5.

Here are three examples from the first post of the "Comparison" thread (CGC 7.5, CGC 7.5. CGC 7.0). :foryou:

 

th_B8-1.jpg th_B8-2.jpg th_B8-3.jpg

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CGC doesn't grade the way they used to IMO so many of those old rules of thumb many no longer apply.
Rules of Thumb evolve and change over time.

Agreed. I made this same observation myself back in 2010. The last sentence of my original post in the "Comparison" thread reads as follows:

 

Also, please remember that CGC’s grading and/or slab labeling standards have changed (and no doubt will continue to evolve) with time. Therefore, past performance is no guarantee of future results.

:hi:

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