Dick O. Posted November 26, 2017 Author Share Posted November 26, 2017 New Article - 24/11/17 Review of the November Heritage Signature Auction is up! https://comicbookinvest.com/2017/11/24/market-report-november-2017-heritage-signature-auction/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkininkin Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, O. said: New Article - 24/11/17 Review of the November Heritage Signature Auction is up! https://comicbookinvest.com/2017/11/24/market-report-november-2017-heritage-signature-auction/ Nice report, but disagree about the desirability of the Ditko ST 125 and 141 being comparable. The George Rousoss inks is total deal breaker with me, and I would suspect with many (but not all) other Ditko collectors. If I'm adding a Ditko Dr.Strange piece to my collection, you better believe it better be inked by Ditko himself. I would also much prefer a Dormammu page over a Mordo page, but that's open to a fair debate. Purely from a content and eye appeal test, I'd rate the ST 141 page much superior, so the price realized at the Heritage auction makes much more sense than you make it out to be IMO. Keep those art articles coming. They are fun and good reference. Scott Edited November 26, 2017 by stinkininkin SquareChaos and Twanj 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick O. Posted November 26, 2017 Author Share Posted November 26, 2017 Glad you enjoy the articles @stinkininkin Good point on the importance of inks in determining the appeal of a piece! Regarding content of the #125 page, I feel the more/larger Dr Strange images, use of the Eye of Agamotto and earlier issue number somewhat redress the balance of desirability between both pages. BTW, there's a sweet cover of yours coming up in next week's article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkininkin Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 9 hours ago, O. said: Glad you enjoy the articles @stinkininkin Good point on the importance of inks in determining the appeal of a piece! Regarding content of the #125 page, I feel the more/larger Dr Strange images, use of the Eye of Agamotto and earlier issue number somewhat redress the balance of desirability between both pages. BTW, there's a sweet cover of yours coming up in next week's article OK, fair enough. But you bring up another point and would ask others to chime in. Does "earlier issue number" enhance desirability and/or value???* I get it if it's a first issue or first appearance, but earlier issue numbers mean nothing to me in this context. The opposite in fact can often signify a more mature artist who has become more technically proficient and developed a better understanding and ability to visually depict the characters and environments. I think this is very true of the Ditko Doctor Strange run generally and specifically the discussed range of ST 125-141. *Better stories and villains are obvious factors too, but that is another discussion... Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twanj Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Issue number has no meaning to me. Artist and story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagnusX Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 (edited) 22 hours ago, O. said: New Article - 24/11/17 Review of the November Heritage Signature Auction is up! https://comicbookinvest.com/2017/11/24/market-report-november-2017-heritage-signature-auction/ My guess for the price reached for this 2 pages is due to his Historical significance. Ms. Marvel is confronted in a trial due to his problem with Alcohol... Edited November 27, 2017 by MagnusX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irchooker Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 On 11/25/2017 at 8:40 PM, O. said: New Article - 24/11/17 Review of the November Heritage Signature Auction is up! https://comicbookinvest.com/2017/11/24/market-report-november-2017-heritage-signature-auction/ Questions: Are those your estimates or HA? If yours, did you write down your price estimates prior to the event, or is this a post-auction 'I'd have said' situation? What does it mean that for all but one piece, which closed a mere $53 dollars above estimate, the rest are minimum 25% higher, a lot are double? If it's HA estimates, then they are doing their job, right? Getting better than expected results. If these are your estimates, do you feel like you understand the market, and things are just crazy out there? As a long time collector who doesn't participate in the hobby in the same way as I did (as far as hours spent looking for art, checking auctions, ebay, making notes on prices; I'm probably running at 10% of the time and effort I placed on the hobby from 2000-2010), I personally feel like I am completely out of touch on the value of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick O. Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 17 hours ago, stinkininkin said: I think this is very true of the Ditko Doctor Strange run generally and specifically the discussed range of ST 125-141. Yup Ditko's art definitely took a step up at the end of his first ST run. 9 hours ago, MagnusX said: My guess for the price reached for this 2 pages is due to his Historical significance. Ms. Marvel is confronted in a trial due to his problem with Alcohol... Ah I see, thanks for the insight Even taking that into account, $4.3k is an eye-popping price! 6 hours ago, irchooker said: Questions: Are those your estimates or HA? If yours, did you write down your price estimates prior to the event, or is this a post-auction 'I'd have said' situation? These are my pre-auction estimates. What does it mean that for all but one piece, which closed a mere $53 dollars above estimate, the rest are minimum 25% higher, a lot are double? It's just a confluence of pieces and prices that caught my eye. As stated in the article, "Results in this auction were solid, with most mainstream superhero OA finishing within their expected range of values. A fair number of high 4-figure to mid 5-figure pieces marginally exceeded FMV, while several blew by all reasonable estimates." If it's HA estimates, then they are doing their job, right? Getting better than expected results. If these are your estimates, do you feel like you understand the market, and things are just crazy out there? See above response. As a long time collector who doesn't participate in the hobby in the same way as I did (as far as hours spent looking for art, checking auctions, ebay, making notes on prices; I'm probably running at 10% of the time and effort I placed on the hobby from 2000-2010), I personally feel like I am completely out of touch on the value of everything. Continue reading my articles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 On 11/26/2017 at 12:23 AM, O. said: Glad you enjoy the articles @stinkininkin Good point on the importance of inks in determining the appeal of a piece! Regarding content of the #125 page, I feel the more/larger Dr Strange images, use of the Eye of Agamotto and earlier issue number somewhat redress the balance of desirability between both pages. BTW, there's a sweet cover of yours coming up in next week's article I enjoy your articles a great deal, but, having just read the article and, my goodness, that's not an accurate analysis of the two Ditko Dr. Strange sale results. The story elements and image do not make up for the difference in inkers, thus making these two pages equivalent. It's just not. It's one of the biggest possible variances between the two types of Dr. Strange art by Ditko. Ditko inking Ditko is not the same thing as Ditko inked by Bell. Although this was a nice page with nice elements, the Bell inks were the reason it didn't sell into the $60,000 range and not some kind of correction or reversion to mean making the 141 sale an outlier. Ditko inked himself on the ASM run so this has never been something that needed to be discussed in that milieu, but in the realm of Dr. Strange artwork it's the difference between Kirby/Sinnott FF and Kirby/Colletta FF. You aren't going to compare the two as if just the Kirby name matters and let the page/character elements account for any difference in valuation. Or Adams Batman.....Adam and Giordano inks are in one realm and other inkers are in another. It's a pretty big deal. On some titles, issues, runs of comics the full artist team is all that matters. The 125 page was a very solid one from story/character elements, and if it were all Ditko you're looking at mid-60's. Calling the 141 an outlier and using the 125 as proof of that is really a faulty conclusion, respectfully. SquareChaos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Regarding the Kelley Jones / Batman 496 / Knightfall, part 9 cover... My estimate for the hammer price was 25K with the juice, minimum. So in my mind, the cover "underperformed" (as if a cover from '93 that sold for 21K could be called an underperformer). I take it as common knowledge that Kelley Jones keeps all his artwork and those KJ panel pages you see floating around are the ones his inker John Beatty released into the world. If KJ is penciling and inking his stuff, which he has in his last two projects, you're not gonna have the chance to buy 'em; but I don't keep a GPS tracker on his art, so don't hold it to me. Nonetheless, considering the market rarity of an all-Kelley Jones cover and Knightfall to boot, I'm really surprised it didn't hit a quarter-K. The question I have is where did this cover come from? A collector or Jones himself? Man, if you bought this cover for 3K-4K back in '93... As far as the quality of the rendering, I agree with you. The faces on both Bats and Joker aren't attractive, and the quality of Robin's face is arguable too. Perhaps that's what kept the bidding at bay. Personally, this isn't my favorite cover between Knightfall parts 1 and 11. Two of those that lead up to Batman 497 are drawn by Sam Kieth. One of those Albert Moy sold a couple of years ago. I'm not sure when another Knightfall cover is going to pop. This one might not be the strongest rendered, but this is a delirious Batman beating Joker to a bloody pulp while the ghost of Jason Todd watches on. There aren't many of those covers in general either. When collectors realize this, and if this ever pops up again 5 from year from now, I think the current owner will get his money back and some. SquareChaos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick O. Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 Appreciate your clear, analytical insight @comix4fun, and happy to know you enjoy the articles Look forward to hearing more from you! Thanks for another passionate, informative post @Jay Olie Espy Illuminating, in-depth conversations like these on a variety of artists/titles are exactly what I hoped would arise from the column John E. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 11 hours ago, Jay Olie Espy said: but this is a delirious Batman beating Joker to a bloody pulp while the ghost of Jason Todd watches on. There aren't many of those covers in general either. When collectors realize this, and if this ever pops up again 5 from year from now, I think the current owner will get his money back and some. I liked it from that perspective also. Perhaps I'm in the minority but I didn't mind the faces. I have precisely zero love for that time period and yet I find I like the cover a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delekkerste Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 12 hours ago, Jay Olie Espy said: Regarding the Kelley Jones / Batman 496 / Knightfall, part 9 cover... My estimate for the hammer price was 25K with the juice, minimum. So in my mind, the cover "underperformed" (as if a cover from '93 that sold for 21K could be called an underperformer). I take it as common knowledge that Kelley Jones keeps all his artwork and those KJ panel pages you see floating around are the ones his inker John Beatty released into the world. If KJ is penciling and inking his stuff, which he has in his last two projects, you're not gonna have the chance to buy 'em; but I don't keep a GPS tracker on his art, so don't hold it to me. Nonetheless, considering the market rarity of an all-Kelley Jones cover and Knightfall to boot, I'm really surprised it didn't hit a quarter-K. The question I have is where did this cover come from? A collector or Jones himself? Man, if you bought this cover for 3K-4K back in '93... Yeah, count me in the camp that did not think this one outperformed. I thought it would go $20-$25K based on scarcity value and it hit the lower end of that range. I don't know for sure, but, I would guess that this one came out of the same collection as some of the other higher-end Batman-related covers in the same auction. And, if so, the owner has an even better K. Jones Bats cover in his collection to fall back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaSealed Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 I had the Batman Jones cover pegged at $22k max. Big premium on it in the result due to it being one of the better Knightfall covers and a Batman vs. Joker fight cover. I wanted it, but the thing that killed it for me the most was the background. The other thing with Batman art is at that price range you can get some VERY nice stuff. John E. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Bronty said: I liked it from that perspective also. Perhaps I'm in the minority but I didn't mind the faces. I have precisely zero love for that time period and yet I find I like the cover a lot. It's nice to read this. Yeah, it's obvious that this time period is not well liked by a lot of collectors and I certainly understand those arguments. My only rebuttal is that the 90s still had some talent doing interesting things, like K. Jones cover run on Knightfall. If I had the money, I certainly wouldn't have minded the "faults" on the faces. Having a Knightfall cover is good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jay Olie Espy said: It's nice to read this. Yeah, it's obvious that this time period is not well liked by a lot of collectors and I certainly understand those arguments. My only rebuttal is that the 90s still had some talent doing interesting things, like K. Jones cover run on Knightfall. If I had the money, I certainly wouldn't have minded the "faults" on the faces. Having a Knightfall cover is good enough for me. Knightfall was a VERY big deal at the time, and Jones' artwork was so different that it really made it a memorable comics event. I just wish the Knightfall storyline didn't end in such a letdown, or lead to such poor followup story lines. John E. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 1 hour ago, delekkerste said: Yeah, count me in the camp that did not think this one outperformed. I thought it would go $20-$25K based on scarcity value and it hit the lower end of that range. I don't know for sure, but, I would guess that this one came out of the same collection as some of the other higher-end Batman-related covers in the same auction. And, if so, the owner has an even better K. Jones Bats cover in his collection to fall back on. I forgot that Eric Roberts owns Batman 497 I wasn't aware KJ let go of the other covers--likely because it's so beyond my budget, I don't even bother to ponder it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjonahjameson11 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 On 11/26/2017 at 10:30 PM, irchooker said: Questions: Are those your estimates or HA? If yours, did you write down your price estimates prior to the event, or is this a post-auction 'I'd have said' situation? What does it mean that for all but one piece, which closed a mere $53 dollars above estimate, the rest are minimum 25% higher, a lot are double? If it's HA estimates, then they are doing their job, right? Getting better than expected results. If these are your estimates, do you feel like you understand the market, and things are just crazy out there? As a long time collector who doesn't participate in the hobby in the same way as I did (as far as hours spent looking for art, checking auctions, ebay, making notes on prices; I'm probably running at 10% of the time and effort I placed on the hobby from 2000-2010), I personally feel like I am completely out of touch on the value of everything. Rob, feel free to contact me. I've been tracking 300-400 auction lots on each HA Signature auction for the past several years and I can bring you up to date on most things. Also tracking high % of Clink Featured Auction OA, but for full disclosure I will state there's been some occasional results in the 'WTF' category that are simply unexplainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjonahjameson11 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 On 11/25/2017 at 8:40 PM, O. said: New Article - 24/11/17 Review of the November Heritage Signature Auction is up! https://comicbookinvest.com/2017/11/24/market-report-november-2017-heritage-signature-auction/ Another great write - up with good coverage of auction offerings. I'm still undecided about whether I enjoyed the focused articles (ie by artist or character) or overall coverage. Both are great to read, and insightful to newbies and veteran collectors alike so keep 'em coming! Those who collect Byrne AF have noticed a steady increase in prices over the past few years, even in the face of increased supply making its way onto the market recently. Pages containing a few panels with some of the more popular team members have been fetching between $1500 - $2000, and pages with Guardian command a premium. The page you've referenced in the Nov HA report is kinda special for a few reasons and it was easy to see why the final sale price was double your auction estimate. First and foremost, its a Wolverine crossover and it was still kind of a big deal to see Byrne draw Wolverine again after his stint on X-Men. Secondly, this issue features a flashback to Wolverine and Vindicator's (later Guardian) encounter in X-Men 109, but also contains some nice framing sequences outlining the story of how Logan first met James & Heather Hudson, how they took him in, and also revealed that the Canadian Government had plans for Wolverine, not Guardian, to be the leader of Alpha Flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick O. Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 Thanks for your insight and compliments @jjonahjameson11, will do my best to keep pumping 'em out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
