Marvel October 1999 ~ February 2000 US Newsstand Price Variants 8 8

[Get Marwood & I]

10 hours ago, lighthouse said:

So this weekend we acquired a 2200 book collection that is entirely newsstand editions, all from 1996 to 2004.

It's an original owner collection that was donated to a nearby charity. They couldn't do anything directly with the comics, so they brought them to us and we are swapping them out for stuff they can actually use (both merchandise and cash).

I've never seen a collection like this before. I've seen collections of 50-100 books that were all newsstands, but nothing larger than that. The idea of someone amassing 2000+ comics without ever once patronizing a comic shop boggles my mind.

We haven't completed the triage on the collection yet. But I didn't find a Thor 19 on my initial pass. I did, however, find a Thor 18 with $2.29 cover price (which I believe is new based on your chart). And strangely the Thor 20 is $1.99. I am quite confident this is an original owner collection. Not a single book was bagged and boarded, they were just accumulated. And it's clearly never been picked through (things like 1997 Deadpool #1 and Amazing Spider-Man #36 were both present). When I get to the other titles, I can see if there is a pattern on which months were variants or not.

One thing I noticed, which may have been brought up in the 300+ previous replies, is that the price variant has a different publisher code. UPC codes on comics are a standard 6 digits denoting publisher, then 5 denoting title, then a 12th digit that is a check digit to verify an accurate bar code. The Thor books are all title "03506", but the regular price version is publisher 074808 (both before and after the variant) while the price variant is publisher 071658. It also doesn't have a Canadian price option.

I'll try to eventually read all 11 pages of this thread. But if there are specific items you'd like me to look for, just let me know. The collection is roughly 50% Marvel, 45% DC, and a smattering of Image (Spawn 32-55 etc). The weirdest thing (to me) that I found so far was Amazing 400 deluxe newsstand. Hadn't seen one of those before. But there are a lot of books to go through.

Hi Honey I'm home! 

So, where were we Lighthouse. Oh yes - THANK YOU for posting a new $2.29 price variant. The first for some time, as you will see if you punish yourself with reading my full thread. I've added Thor #18 $2.29 to the list and we now have 28 confirmed $2.29 / $2.49 newsstand price variants.

Here's the updated issue tracker:

 

My assertion throughout this thread has been that the six titles above are the only ones that received the 2.29/2.49 treatment. I find it too unlikely that, if they do exist for the many other titles being published at the time, that not one of them has surfaced in all these years. I have been looking since 2010. Here's my old Spidey list showing when I got each of the 6 variants for ASM:

 

Your new Thor find fits in to my thinking - you find a new example among a huge collection of original owner newsstands and it's for one of the known six titles. In my research, I never say never. One may turn up for another title one day. But after so long, and with so many looking, it's becoming inconceivable that one will.

If I am right, then we only need fill in the chart above to have a 'full set'. Accordingly we would need:

• ASM #14 $2.29
• ASM #14 $2.49
• Cable #72 $2.49
• Cable #73 $2.29
• Cable #74 $2.29
• Cable #76 $2.29
• Cable #76 $2.49
• FF #22 $2.29
• FF #22 $2.49
• FF #23 $2.29
• FF #24 $2.29
• Hulk #7 $2.29
• Hulk #7 $2.49
• Hulk #10 $2.29
• Hulk #11 $2.29
• Hulk #11 $2.49
• Thor #16 $2.29
• Thor #16 $2.49
• Thor #17 $2.49
• Thor #19 $2.29
• Thor #20 $2.29
• Thor #20 $2.49
• X-Men #97 $2.29
• X-Men #97 $2.49

That's 24 potential issues outstanding.

One of my other assertions / theories however is that no one title will have five consecutive months of the variants, only four within the five month period. If that is true, the number drops significantly (e.g. the two ASM #14's fall away, the two FF #22's, the two X-Men #97's etc). The pattern is there to see, and has been holding true since I started documenting these books.

If my four consecutive month only theory is also right, the revised list becomes:

• Cable #72 $2.49
• Cable #73 $2.29
• Cable #74 $2.29
• FF #23 $2.29
• FF #24 $2.29
• Hulk #10 $2.29
• Thor #17 $2.49
• Thor #19 $2.29

Plus either

• Hulk #7 $2.29
• Hulk #7 $2.49

or

• Hulk #11 $2.29
• Hulk #11 $2.49

And either

• Thor #16 $2.29
• Thor #16 $2.49

or

• Thor #20 $2.29
• Thor #20 $2.49

That would make 12 books outstanding.

So it would be great if you could revisit the collection to see if any of these appear. If it is an original owner collection, with the books purchased from the newsstand in the buyers location, then the presence of $1.99 regular newsstands for the issues above may cement the theory that the books did not receive the variant treatment, if some Price Variants are found within it (just the Thor 18 so far).

Incidentally, Thor #19 has escaped us all as a regular $1.99 newsstand, which is more baffling than the variants. No one has ever seen one!

Changing the subject, newsstands are prized by some collectors, especially completists, so you have a great collection to work with there. Many dislike the newsstand scarcity / value debate for some reason and get a little shirty when others talk about their relative scarcity to their direct edition counterparts. As a one time Spidey completist, I was always prepared to pay a decent premium for a newsstand copy as some were extremely hard to find online. I think it's right that they should command a reasonable premium, but some people went too far. Chuck at Mile High did us all a massive disservice when he started pricing post 2000 newsstands at premiums of up to 100 times 'normal' value, based on is flawed assumption that they were 100 times more scarce. He killed the collecting process for me, as all of a sudden I had to face $200 price tags for newsstands that I was previously snagging from ebay for a few dollars. He, in part, stopped me being a completist. So what I am saying is, don't give them away. Look out for the buyers that will prize them. I'm sure many will be in touch, if they see your post.

As for ASM #400, there were four versions as follows:

The one in 10,000 copy:

What was oddly always referred to as the 'newsstand copy', even though it had a Direct Edition barcode (no wrap around cover):

The grey wrap around cover - Direct Edition:

The grey wrap around cover - Newsstand Edition:

So, only one 'real' newsstand copy.

I hope you come back soon and tell us if you have any more. I'd love full cover scans of the Thor #18 if you can, and a shot of the indicia so I can update the files fully. Well done again, for bringing us up to 28 copies Lighthouse 

Cheers, Steve

 

[lighthouse]

This may also be covered in the thread. But I noticed that at least one of the April 2000 shipping books I looked at had a $1.99 cover price and a $2.25 indicia.

In a past life I dealt a number of the 30 cent price variants, including finding Donut his last remaining book to complete the first ever set. I found that April indicia odd, because with the 30 and 35 cent "tests" the new price took effect immediately after the test was completed. But this 99-00 test seems to have been run, then they made a decision to go with the new price and updated the indicia, but didn't update the actual cover price until a later month. It's not like September 1976 at all.

I promise I will read through the full thread when I get a chance. But my Diamond shipment just arrived and I'll either be procrastinating on the Diamond shipment by looking through this collection or procrastinating on the collection to process my Diamond shipment. Either way the thread will have to wait a bit.

Edited January 8, 2019 by lighthouse

[Get Marwood & I]

19 minutes ago, lighthouse said:

This may also be covered in the thread. But I noticed that at least one of the April 2000 shipping books I looked at had a $1.99 cover price and a $2.25 indicia.

In a past life I dealt a number of the 30 cent price variants, including finding Donut his last remaining book to complete the first ever set. I found that April indicia odd, because with the 30 and 35 cent "tests" the new price took effect immediately after the test was completed. But this 99-00 test seems to have been run, then they made a decision to go with the new price and updated the indicia, but didn't update the actual cover price until a later month. It's not like September 1976 at all.

I promise I will read through the full thread when I get a chance. But my Diamond shipment just arrived and I'll either be procrastinating on the Diamond shipment by looking through this collection or procrastinating on the collection to process my Diamond shipment. Either way the thread will have to wait a bit.

Look forward to your further input. The price tests in this case, if that is what they were, we're for 2.29 and 2.49 for a regular priced 1.99 issue. So not sure why 2.25 was settled upon as the increase, if they are linked. 

One thing I have learned is that the indicia details are not always as 'robust' as they could be. This thread shows some examples of that, with indicias having what looks like erroneous data or at least differing data by issue. Consistency seems not to have been at the forefront of the typesetters thinking. If it was his job, that is.  

[Get Marwood & I]

@FlyingDonut calling FD, are you seeing this?

[lighthouse]

So the X-Men 95 from this collection is a $2.29.

Both I've found so far were December and both were $2.29.

It's a rough slog going through these. 2200 loose books, all essentially unsorted, just loads and loads of fun.

 

[lighthouse]

Meh... my Diamond shipment can wait...

 

[lighthouse]

Alright... I really do need to get to my Diamond shipment... but here's a 3rd one previous undiscovered...

Interesting that the 9 (previously found) doesn't have a month in the bar code box. *shrug*

[lighthouse]

Fwiw, the Hulk 11 from this collection is $1.99

This is one of the least organized collections I have ever triaged... sigh...

[lighthouse]

I finally read the whole thread (I think... I skipped over some of the initial bickering before the thread got going).

I won't be digging back into these books for a few days. But I did finish the initial triage of at least separating publishers, and in the process I found 6 $2.29 variants. There are likely more because I'd already filled a few short boxes with Marvel before stumbling across this thread and starting to search as I triaged. But it will be a bit before I can go back through them.

All six of the $2.29 variants I found have the same $1.99/$2.99 indicia. Seems to jive with what was found before, where only the $2.49s had unusual indicia.

[Get Marwood & I]

6 hours ago, lighthouse said:

I finally read the whole thread

Did you enjoy it?

[Get Marwood & I]

[FlyingDonut]

19 hours ago, lighthouse said:

So the X-Men 95 from this collection is a $2.29.

Both I've found so far were December and both were $2.29.

It's a rough slog going through these. 2200 loose books, all essentially unsorted, just loads and loads of fun.

 

Where did they come from? We're trying to pin down some geographic distribution on these and there's very little to go on. One place that I think was a test market was western New York, specifically the Jamestown area, but there's little other information that can be found.

[lighthouse]

1 hour ago, FlyingDonut said:

Where did they come from? We're trying to pin down some geographic distribution on these and there's very little to go on. One place that I think was a test market was western New York, specifically the Jamestown area, but there's little other information that can be found.

Unfortunately I don't know.

The collection was donated to a charity after (I believe but am not certain) the original owner passed away. And there is little way of telling where the original owner was living during the time period in question, given that it was 19 years ago. I have found some scribbled notes here and there in the boxes, but no receipts, no addresses, nothing so far that would assist in finding a location. Most collections of this size I find several original purchase receipts mixed in, tucked in the backs of bag and boards etc. But on my initial pass I didn't find a single scrap of paper with an address on it.

The charity received them almost a year ago but apparently my local competition showed no interest in acquiring them. And the director of the charity made it sound as though the books had been sitting idle for a decade before that, but whether the original owner was still alive at that point or not I have no idea.

I did eventually find around 15-20 books that were Direct Editions. And they make no sense with the rest of the collection. There was a Carnage Mind Bomb, and a couple random Avengers from 1997, plus a few random DCs from 2002. Those were bagged and boarded, maybe a random garage sale purchase or something. There was also a dozen Bronze Age books mixed in, including a beat up Superman 233. I'm guessing those were the owner's "childhood collection" and they started collecting again in 1996 but exclusively somewhere that sold newsstands. Wherever it was, the newsstand(s) they frequented had a tremendous selection. There were Bone from Image, several Tekno titles including both the Gaiman and Nimoy series, several late-run Valiants, plus a pretty full complement of Marvel and DC. None of the newsstand books were ever bagged and boarded, just neatly stacked in file boxes.

If I find anything with an address (or even a full name) I'll see if there's something to go on for a location. But so far I don't think there is.

[FlyingDonut]

On 1/9/2019 at 10:09 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

In looking at this, I'll bet we won't find the October 1999 Fantastic Four, Hulk, or Thor, and will find nothing for February 2000. Eventually the middle ones will show up.

Its just weird.

The big mystery is the Thor 19 newsstand - that HAS to exist but why can't anyone find one?

[Get Marwood & I]

47 minutes ago, FlyingDonut said:

On 1/9/2019 at 3:09 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

In looking at this, I'll bet we won't find the October 1999 Fantastic Four, Hulk, or Thor, and will find nothing for February 2000. Eventually the middle ones will show up.

Its just weird.

Yep, that's my theory a few posts back:

On 1/8/2019 at 3:01 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

One of my other assertions / theories however is that no one title will have five consecutive months of the variants, only four within the five month period. If that is true, the number drops significantly (e.g. the two ASM #14's fall away, the two FF #22's, the two X-Men #97's etc). The pattern is there to see, and has been holding true since I started documenting these books.

I outlined in the full post how many 2.29/2.49's I think there will be, based on that assertion. It doesn't have to necessarily be weird. It looks to me like a fairly loose attempt to monitor increased prices. As I've said before, why do it just as you're planning double sized issues? It seems lazily conceived. And why test $2.29 and $2.49 and then settle on $2.25? Maybe there was no plan. Maybe it was just a sloppy exercise. I've written to Marvel (again) to see if I can get someone's interest. 

55 minutes ago, FlyingDonut said:

The big mystery is the Thor 19 newsstand - that HAS to exist but why can't anyone find one?

I agree that the regular Thor #19 newsstand has to exist in theory. There would be no logical explanation for it being missed by design. So it will likely turn up one day, a bit like some of the pence copies that I hunt for which show once every ten years, just as you're about to write them off. Maybe there's a story though - maybe there was a fire. Maybe the lorry crashed after leaving the printers. Maybe they forgot to solicit it. Stranger things have happened. More likely, it is just one stubborn bloody book.

 

[Get Marwood & I]

I think I see a Thor #17 $2.29 hiding in here if anyone wants it:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Avengers-comic-lot-The-Mighty-Thor-1998-1-3-5-8-9-11-29-Annual-2000-VF-Bagged/232963254599?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&redirect=mobile

[valiantman]

On 1/8/2019 at 9:01 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

What was oddly always referred to as the 'newsstand copy', even though it had a Direct Edition barcode (no wrap around cover):

This happened a lot, particularly with Superman #75 which is often called "newsstand" for ANY copy with the ripped cape on the cover.

I believe what happened was that somewhere in the 1990s, we had "newsstand" and "deluxe" versions of the same comic, and it was only possible to get "deluxe" editions from comic shops, which were direct editions.  So, then you got people interchanging the words "deluxe" and "direct" any time there were two covers (usually one expensive gimmick and one standard edition that was cheaper), and you got people interchanging the words "newsstand" and "standard" for the cheaper cover.

Unfortunately, "standard" is always correct but "newsstand" is usually wrong.  There are often newsstand editions of standard covers, but there are direct editions of standard covers and we're talking about the 1990s or newer, so most standards are direct... and most references to "newsstand" are wrong. 

[FlyingDonut]

Found a $2.49 Fantastic Four 26 in a long box in a comic store yesterday in Wallingford, CT. Guy had a lot of newsstands but only the one modern variant.

[lighthouse]

Alright, so I haven't bought the collection yet. But guy just walked in that has FF 23, 24, and 26 all as $2.29 variants.

So that's two more checked off the list. I'm now up to 5 previously undiscovereds this month.

And yes, the 22 was in the collection and it was regular price. It's a run of 13 newsstand FFs in a row, so I am pretty darn confident that (at least for the $2.29 test market) there was no variant for FF 22. Because there would have been one here.

And since I know Donut will ask, no, he has no clue where they came from initially.

[lighthouse]