CGC et al To Aggressively Defend Against Lawsuit Filed In Pennsylvania 11 11

[seanfingh]

1 hour ago, RonS2112 said:

Then why the appeal to the PA Supreme Court....?

 

To try and preserve, or more accurately, reinstate, their summary proceeding victory.

[mattn792]

2 hours ago, RonS2112 said:

Then why the appeal to the PA Supreme Court....?

 

In a nutshell:

Trial court said “case dismissed” with a summary judgment in favor of CGC and Heritage.

Upon IGB’s appeal, the Superior court said “case undismissed, no liability determined at this time”.

CGC and Heritage appealed to the Supreme Court to try for a re-dismissal, but it looks like the Supreme Court didn’t even take up the appeal and it was simply denied.

So at the present time, basically all parties are back at square one in the trial court.  It seems likely they will have to argue this out in a full trial.

 

[Dr. Love]

On 10/20/2019 at 8:29 PM, Mark Zaid said:

I can state outright that we believe the Superior Court decision contained numerous and significant errors of fact and law.

Looks like the en banc Superiors and then the PA Supremes didn't get the memo

but but but...numerous AND significant

[lou_fine]

On 9/15/2020 at 12:12 PM, comicdonna said:

On 9/15/2020 at 11:49 AM, lou_fine said:

Not sure why you would feel this way as I would think from the judge's point of view in terms of being a layperson, as opposed to a comic book collector, that the big fail here really is more by CGC and their totally convoluted, irrational, and constantly changing definition of what actually constitutes restoration.    

As another poster mentioned here on this topic before, if the purpose of restoration is to restore the book back to its original form as much as possible, if IGB is able to then perform this so well that even the so-called "experts" cannot tell what is original from what is restored or recreated, then is this not the definition of better or dare we say near perfect restoration?    

If we take the opposite approach and say that CGC should only be accepting books where restoration or any type of work done to improve a book should always be clearly identifiable, then does this not mean that CGC should not be accepting any books that might possibly be pressed (or whatever else) because they have clearly and conveniently stated that they cannot tell with 100% confidence if a book has been pressed or not if the work has been performed properly?    

If they even go here, I can certainly just see the judge's eyes rolling  when CGC tries to explain all of the manipulative practices that were once viewed as restoration and that they themselves now happily partake in as they are no longer consider to be restoration.  Especially if you read CGC's own updated Restoration Grading Scale which in itself is totally contradictory as to what actually consitutes restoration and what does not.  

Then you toss in the fact that Matt and CGC/CCS were actually working with the Meyers in an attempt to perfect this technique of theirs at the start before Matt probably got too busy, disinterested, or whatever when he switched over to the CGC side of the business to continue any further with this endeavour.  My thinking is that if CGC/CCS and Matt were still involved with the Meyers at this stage of the process, instead of a lawsuit taking place, the ownership at CCG would have an additional revenue stream in place and collectors would be lining up to send in their pieces of comic books along with bags of wood pulp or wood chip into CCS to have these uber HG comic books restored recreated before they are sent down the hall for grading at CGC.  

If I was just a layperson and not a comic book collector, I could easily see a number of reasons why CGC, et al would lose this court case being filed by the Meyers against them.  

The short version of my reply is 

Why, thank you kind sir........as I am in 110% absolute agreement with you since I am also totally puzzled as to how CGC managed to do this to themselves.  

Edited September 18, 2020 by lou_fine

[comicdonna]

8 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Why, thank you kind sir........as I am in 110% absolute agreement with you since I am also totally puzzled as to how CGC managed to do this to themselves.  

Time will tell!  

[MatterEaterLad]

On 9/15/2020 at 12:49 PM, lou_fine said:

As another poster mentioned here on this topic before, if the purpose of restoration is to restore the book back to its original form as much as possible, if IGB is able to then perform this so well that even the so-called "experts" cannot tell what is original from what is restored or recreated, then is this not the definition of better or dare we say near perfect restoration?    

On another forum Joey Post said: "I had a chance to look over their books at WWC two years ago. At dinner they brought 5 or 6 stunners for us to look over. I am not sure of their restorative processes, but they are not frankenbooks."

I respect Joey's opinion because of his excellent work and also because he's a qualified third party, not financially connected to CGC/Heritage or Steve's company. And now I really want to see one of these books up close. 

[lou_fine]

On 9/16/2020 at 7:47 AM, MatterEaterLad said:

On 9/15/2020 at 5:59 PM, James J Johnson said:

If the CGC graders spoke to Heritage about what their feelings were towards the Meyers' work, what's wrong with that? CGC resto people should be able to lend their expertise especially if asked. Are the Heritage people making these decisions on what and what not to offer supposed to analyze these books for themselves? And if so, what is their expertise? They have to rely on the word of experts. If I were Heritage brass making decisions I'd think, "What in the name of God is this? Looks like someone painted a comic over a comic. Give them a ring over at CGC or CCS and let's get some intel on what we're looking at here". . 

Because feelings don't hold up in court. Apparently CGC didn't have proof. But I guess that's for a judge/jury to decide. 

If you posted on these boards that you feel someone is selling counterfeit books and they lose business, you'd better have proof or there could be legal recourse. It's the same thing.

Is there not some type of indirect incestous ownership relationship between CCG and Heritage Auctions which might play a small part in some of the business decisions being made.  I believe I read this somewhere, but hope somebody here with more knowledge and access can either confirm or deny this for us.  

If there is and only IF since I don't actually know, would this not be a case of potential conflict of interest with 2 interrelated companies possibly open to illegal collusion by quietly working together behind the scenes to put an external third party competitor out of business?  

Edited September 18, 2020 by lou_fine

[Gotham Kid]

I love IGB books. I'd buy all of them. Especially the variant edition of Action 10. Love that one. It's unique.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Gotham Kid

[lou_fine]

7 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

I love IGB books. I'd buy all of them. Especially the variant edition of Action 10. Love that one. It's unique.

 

 

Ask and ye shall receive as you must have been a good boy since this is going to be your lucky day here:  

Sorry, my bad as that was actually the CCS leaf casting pile.    

[MatterEaterLad]

55 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Is there not some type of indirect incestous ownership relationship between CCG and Heritage Auctions which might play a small part in some of the business decisions being made.  I believe I read this somewhere, but hope somebody here with more knowledge and access can either confirm or deny this for us.  

If there is and only IF since I don't actually know, would this not be a case of potential conflict of interest with 2 interrelated companies possibly open to illegal collusion by quietly working together behind the scenes to put an external third party competitor out of business?  

Jim Halperin, co-chairman of Heritage, has an ownership stake in CGC. Or at least he used to. 

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, MatterEaterLad said:

2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Is there not some type of indirect incestous ownership relationship between CCG and Heritage Auctions which might play a small part in some of the business decisions being made.  I believe I read this somewhere, but hope somebody here with more knowledge and access can either confirm or deny this for us.  

If there is and only IF since I don't actually know, would this not be a case of potential conflict of interest with 2 interrelated companies possibly open to illegal collusion by quietly working together behind the scenes to put an external third party competitor out of business?  

Jim Halperin, co-chairman of Heritage, has an ownership stake in CGC. Or at least he used to. 

Ahhhhh..................yes, that's what it was.  

BTW:  Any idea what the results of that lawsuit was that the FTC or DOJ had against both Halperin and Ivy at the time back then?  

As an aside, if if remember correctly, didn't @MasterChief indicate that based upon his detailed analysis, that the whole CPR game didn't really seem to start until after Heritage entered the comic book scene way back in 2002.      

[MatterEaterLad]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

BTW:  Any idea what the results of that lawsuit was that the FTC or DOJ had against both Halperin and Ivy at the time back then?  

Was this the RICO lawsuit where N.P. Gresham was discovered to be Heritage's shill account used to bid up their own auctions?

[William-James88]

On 9/16/2020 at 9:48 PM, kav said:

We're getting into Heisenberg territory here.  The original Heisenberg, not that blue meth guy.

Sounds more like Theseus' ship.

On 9/17/2020 at 7:53 AM, RonS2112 said:

.  Painting with a broad brush here but I think once most people decide that they're buying the PLOD version of a given book, the AMOUNT of restoration probably doesn't matter.

I and many fans out there would disagree. There is a massive distinction between amateur restoration and professional restoration, for instance. And key books with slight restoration are highly sought selling much closer to their blue label counterparts since there is a chance at restoration removal and obtaining a blue label.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

2 hours ago, MatterEaterLad said:

Was this the RICO lawsuit where N.P. Gresham was discovered to be Heritage's shill account used to bid up their own auctions?

Whaattttt??!!

[MatterEaterLad]

37 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Whaattttt??!!

It was back in 2009. https://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/2009/09/lifting_the_veil_at_heritage_a.html

 

[William-James88]

37 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Whaattttt??!!

This is real

https://www.originalprop.com/blog/2009/10/27/heritage-auction-galleries-lawsuit-in-the-news-claims-of-fake-bidder-n-p-gresham-auction-manipulation/

[James J Johnson]

18 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Whaattttt??!!

It's Texas. Laws governing the house participating in their auctions are different in Texas. It's legal. Further, Heritage makes no secret of this. I don't know if there's been any changes since, but a decade or more ago I read through their auction guidelines; in one of their auction catalogs. Heritage was open about it, full disclosure, their language left nothing out concerning this. They can bid, their associates can bid, their family members can bid; even the consignors can bid. 

If when bidding in a Heritage auction, you are unaware of this, it certainly isn't because they failed to inform. It's all clearly addressed right in the auction fax section, long before the auction pages. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by James J Johnson

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

13 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

It's Texas. Laws governing the house participating in their auctions are different in Texas. It's legal. Further, Heritage makes no secret of this. I don't know if there's been any changes since, but a decade or more ago I read through their auction guidelines; in one of their auction catalogs. Heritage was open about it, full disclosure, their language left nothing out concerning this. They can bid, their associates can bid, their family members can bid; even the consignors can bid. 

If when bidding in a Heritage auction, you are unaware of this, it certainly isn't because they failed to inform. It's all clearly addressed right in the auction fax section, long before the auction pages. 

I like those guys at Heritage, but this is beyond the pale. You needn’t tell me again how it’s all there in writing. 

[James J Johnson]

8 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

I like those guys at Heritage, but this is beyond the pale. You needn’t tell me again how it’s all there in writing. 

What's stated in their writing conforms with state law. Point is that like it or not, that's the rules. I won't bid in any auction, or for that matter, play any game where something of value is at stake, unless I have a clear understanding of the rules. Once I know the rules and what to expect, then I decide to participate or not. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by James J Johnson

[lou_fine]

30 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

I like those guys at Heritage, but this is beyond the pale. You needn’t tell me again how it’s all there in writing. 

I am a bit surprised you actually wasn't aware of this as this specific topic has already been discussed many times before in the past.  

Especially since it indicates that you've been with us here on the boards since way back in 2005.