Empty Package Scam from EBay Seller

[TimelyFinds]

That's a strange statement "Oooo how much fun waiting to get 5k back is..." I would be crying my eyes out having missed the opportunity to own an AF15.. I suppose each to his own.

 

obviously by this point I am not getting the book and this deal never existed...... of course I wanted the book, but to cry over a book that was never real in a deal would be childish. you wouldn't want your $4975? especially when its up in the air the you might of been swindled out of it?

 

Must be nice to be you

[tv horror]

Sorry, Timely you are right. Good luck getting the money back.

 

 

 

[TimelyFinds]

it all good, we all here because we love comics

[Kelmonster]

Those postal flyers look like something that would be in the lobby of a post office. If it's a new priority box he sent it in then he got the flyers when he got the box.

[kav]

Which should all be on video.

[D800Model0325]

To be honest, you already won this case. The pics did not match the item you received, period. Plain and simple. When you speak with the eBay and PayPal reps all you need are the pics as proof that the item you received is not the same item listed. The seller has no more excuses. There's no way USPS could've known there was a AF15 in the box. "Hey look, there's a AF15 in this box, so let's switch it out with this empty slab I bring with me at all times in case I do come across a AF15." To be honest though your situation worries me now considering that no seller with years of selling and 100% feedback can be trusted on eBay. Especially when purchasing high priced books. Don't worry though you'll find another copy in the future ?

[spreads]

A couple people mentioned they think the account was hijacked, so that seller might have no clue this is going on if they aren't active on ebay.

 

I haven't heard of that, but it makes good sense to change passwords more frequently.

[loadstone]

A couple people mentioned they think the account was hijacked, so that seller might have no clue this is going on if they aren't active on ebay.

 

I haven't heard of that, but it makes good sense to change passwords more frequently.

 

This is the part that concerns me. If the ebay acct was hacked, for the thief to get the money, he would have to associate it with a different verified paypal acct or have also hacked the paypal acct as well. The thief would need to wait until the funds are released from paypals hold period then transfer the funds to an account that he manages, make a withdrawal and close that acct. Because if and, hopefully, when ebay/paypal sides with you they will pull the funds from whatever bank acct is associated with the paypal acct. If that paypal account was hacked and still has the original owners bank acct associated with it paypal will pull the money from that unsuspecting persons bank account or credit card.

I know that's not your problem but he basically used this ebay transaction and your paypal case as a means of indirectly stealing from the account holder.

 

IN any case we have to hope that paypal will not release the funds to the seller until the case has been resolved. Also, if the seller wants to go the route of a refund through USPS the seller is who needs to wait to be reimbursed (double-dip.) You may only have to wait for the USPS claim to be approved but not necessarily refunded to get your money back. Interestingly, if the paypal acct was hacked and paypal had already released the funds prior to the case, the thief could end up with both the initial $4900 and the insurance claim. What is the max for priority mail? $5k if that's what he specified when buying the postage? If so they would have made $10k in 1 shot.

 

If they are the original acct holder they could still make $5k on the deal from mail insurance fraud. However, the USPS is loathe to rule in favor of a refund especially if the contents of the package are/were nowhere near the value of $5k. Could backfire but hopefully paypal has everything under control.

 

Very sneaky. Let us know how it all pans out.

 

[TimelyFinds]

A couple people mentioned they think the account was hijacked, so that seller might have no clue this is going on if they aren't active on ebay.

 

I haven't heard of that, but it makes good sense to change passwords more frequently.

 

This is the part that concerns me. If the ebay acct was hacked, for the thief to get the money, he would have to associate it with a different verified paypal acct or have also hacked the paypal acct as well. The thief would need to wait until the funds are released from paypals hold period then transfer the funds to an account that he manages, make a withdrawal and close that acct. Because if and, hopefully, when ebay/paypal sides with you they will pull the funds from whatever bank acct is associated with the paypal acct. If that paypal account was hacked and still has the original owners bank acct associated with it paypal will pull the money from that unsuspecting persons bank account or credit card.

I know that's not your problem but he basically used this ebay transaction and your paypal case as a means of indirectly stealing from the account holder.

 

IN any case we have to hope that paypal will not release the funds to the seller until the case has been resolved. Also, if the seller wants to go the route of a refund through USPS the seller is who needs to wait to be reimbursed (double-dip.) You may only have to wait for the USPS claim to be approved but not necessarily refunded to get your money back. Interestingly, if the paypal acct was hacked and paypal had already released the funds prior to the case, the thief could end up with both the initial $4900 and the insurance claim. What is the max for priority mail? $5k if that's what he specified when buying the postage? If so they would have made $10k in 1 shot.

 

If they are the original acct holder they could still make $5k on the deal from mail insurance fraud. However, the USPS is loathe to rule in favor of a refund especially if the contents of the package are/were nowhere near the value of $5k. Could backfire but hopefully paypal has everything under control.

 

Very sneaky. Let us know how it all pans out.

 

Will keep you posted. PayPal said they locked up the funds. I was wondering the same question of which route he is going at this scam; either PayPal or usps. My guess at this point is post office but I would think they would have to reach out to me to question me about the situation being the person who signed. But truly I do not know the process for insurance especially at this amount.

 

PayPal most likely will rule in my favor but the annoying part is. Schasethe person responded to PayPal- sounds like it could take till 1/31 for a decision. I have contacted PayPal numerous times and supposively it is escalated to be done quicker.

 

I can't tell if hijacked or seller pulling a good scam on a one off. I think hijacked but they did sell 2 comics lots for $20-40 at same time. Honestly it felt they did this to make this look legiate as possible but I still feel running a scam.

 

But anyways, I will keep y'all posted

[spreads]

 

Interestingly, if the paypal acct was hacked and paypal had already released the funds prior to the case, the thief could end up with both the initial $4900 and the insurance claim. What is the max for priority mail? $5k if that's what he specified when buying the postage? If so they would have made $10k in 1 shot.

Do you think paypal wouldn't be able to track the money being taken-out by a thief into a different bank account? That seems pretty obvious that they wouldn't take money from a hijacked account once they saw the withdrawal from the crook into a different bank account.....

 

 

If they are the original acct holder they could still make $5k on the deal from mail insurance fraud. However, the USPS is loathe to rule in favor of a refund especially if the contents of the package are/were nowhere near the value of $5k. Could backfire but hopefully paypal has everything under control.

 

Very sneaky. Let us know how it all pans out.

 

I don't know, do you think this is possible? I'm not in the US, but I don't know how anyone could have an insurance claim rule in their favor in this instance?

It also seems extra reckless and stupid to open yourself up to more investigation, potentially being caught, if you did manage to fleece paypal with the 5k.

[grebal]

I can't tell if hijacked or seller pulling a good scam on a one off. I think hijacked but they did sell 2 comics lots for $20-40 at same time. Honestly it felt they did this to make this look legiate as possible but I still feel running a scam.

 

I agree with your nose, it's smells off. Deal too good to be a one-off hijack, imo.

 

Do be sure to keep us posted when refunded.

[loadstone]

 

Interestingly, if the paypal acct was hacked and paypal had already released the funds prior to the case, the thief could end up with both the initial $4900 and the insurance claim. What is the max for priority mail? $5k if that's what he specified when buying the postage? If so they would have made $10k in 1 shot.

Do you think paypal wouldn't be able to track the money being taken-out by a thief into a different bank account? That seems pretty obvious that they wouldn't take money from a hijacked account once they saw the withdrawal from the crook into a different bank account.....

 

 

If they are the original acct holder they could still make $5k on the deal from mail insurance fraud. However, the USPS is loathe to rule in favor of a refund especially if the contents of the package are/were nowhere near the value of $5k. Could backfire but hopefully paypal has everything under control.

 

Very sneaky. Let us know how it all pans out.

 

I don't know, do you think this is possible? I'm not in the US, but I don't know how anyone could have an insurance claim rule in their favor in this instance?

It also seems extra reckless and stupid to open yourself up to more investigation, potentially being caught, if you did manage to fleece paypal with the 5k.

 

@TimelyFinds, Great news that paypal has locked the funds and I'm hopeful it'll be ruled in your favor. His only backup plan of an insurance claim is not likely to pan out and he may even be investigated. If it's a hacked acct, the thief will get probably get away to try again.

 

@spreads, I have no doubt paypal could track the funds up to the point of a bank account. However, if the theif had acquired the means to hack this individuals account they could also have done so with enough stolen PII that they could open another shell throwaway bank account. All Yahoo mail accounts were recently found to have been compromised. Any PII and linked associated accounts should be considered compromised as well. I wonder how many yahoo users used rhe same login/password/security questions/and listed their real DOB/phone/address as their ebay, paypal and bank accounts. Not too far of a leap these days. If it really is just the original ebay seller they should be easily caught.

 

This is all moot and academic at this point as it seems paypal has initiated the proper protocols at this point.

 

 

[kav]

What prevented him from depositing paypal into bank the minute he was paid?

[icefires]

 

Interestingly, if the paypal acct was hacked and paypal had already released the funds prior to the case, the thief could end up with both the initial $4900 and the insurance claim. What is the max for priority mail? $5k if that's what he specified when buying the postage? If so they would have made $10k in 1 shot.

Do you think paypal wouldn't be able to track the money being taken-out by a thief into a different bank account? That seems pretty obvious that they wouldn't take money from a hijacked account once they saw the withdrawal from the crook into a different bank account.....

 

 

If they are the original acct holder they could still make $5k on the deal from mail insurance fraud. However, the USPS is loathe to rule in favor of a refund especially if the contents of the package are/were nowhere near the value of $5k. Could backfire but hopefully paypal has everything under control.

 

Very sneaky. Let us know how it all pans out.

 

I don't know, do you think this is possible? I'm not in the US, but I don't know how anyone could have an insurance claim rule in their favor in this instance?

It also seems extra reckless and stupid to open yourself up to more investigation, potentially being caught, if you did manage to fleece paypal with the 5k.

 

@TimelyFinds, Great news that paypal has locked the funds and I'm hopeful it'll be ruled in your favor. His only backup plan of an insurance claim is not likely to pan out and he may even be investigated. If it's a hacked acct, the thief will get probably get away to try again.

 

@spreads, I have no doubt paypal could track the funds up to the point of a bank account. However, if the theif had acquired the means to hack this individuals account they could also have done so with enough stolen PII that they could open another shell throwaway bank account. All Yahoo mail accounts were recently found to have been compromised. Any PII and linked associated accounts should be considered compromised as well. I wonder how many yahoo users used rhe same login/password/security questions/and listed their real DOB/phone/address as their ebay, paypal and bank accounts. Not too far of a leap these days. If it really is just the original ebay seller they should be easily caught.

 

This is all moot and academic at this point as it seems paypal has initiated the proper protocols at this point.

 

 

Seller takes package to post office.

This package required a signature upon delivery.

This means the only suspects are the seller, postal workers, and the buyer.

 

Majority of post offices have decent video surveillance systems.

And video is probably stored for a minimum of 90 days before it overwrites.

Where is the postal worker going to open the box, crack the comic out of the CGC case, throw a bunch of flyers in the new box, address and seal the new box with the proper label?

The only place in the post office that definitely will not have cameras is/are the restroom(s). However, they will have cameras showing the restroom entrances. The postal worker would be seen carrying all that stuff into the restroom.

 

That leaves the postal vehicle. The postal worker could deliver it to a friend, the friend could change boxes, and the postal worker could return to pick it up. Or the postal worker could perform the transfer in his vehicle. I am betting against it being the postal worker. It really doesn't make a lot of sense for him/her to crack the comic out of a blank CGC case.

 

I say the seller is guilty as hell.

 

I would also think the investigator would want to see your garbage bag with all the stuff you received.

[bluechip]

If package was opened and re taped there will be 2 layers of tape present.

 

This doesn't mean guilty...I have reused boxes that were sent to me so there will be tape on top of tape.

 

This whole situation sounds like something that happened to me years ago. I sold a key comic on eBay and when the buyer got it, the box was empty (supposedly). I believe it was the post office and that someone there knew I mailed out comics a lot and they grabbed it mid-transit.

 

You can try filming the opening but who is to say you didn't open it, take the book out, seal it and then film yourself opening a "sealed box"?

 

Whenever I have filmed opening a box I made sure to turn the box over carefully to show the original seals, the labels, etc. When I've been uber suspicious I even opened it while filming right there in front of the postal inspector. Once I did that and discovered immediately the book was missing the centerfold and while still still filming resealed it and gave it to the same clerk to return. Guy still tried to fight it and it took forever to get the money back (but this was in the days before paypal).

 

 

[TimelyFinds]

If package was opened and re taped there will be 2 layers of tape present.

 

This doesn't mean guilty...I have reused boxes that were sent to me so there will be tape on top of tape.

 

This whole situation sounds like something that happened to me years ago. I sold a key comic on eBay and when the buyer got it, the box was empty (supposedly). I believe it was the post office and that someone there knew I mailed out comics a lot and they grabbed it mid-transit.

 

You can try filming the opening but who is to say you didn't open it, take the book out, seal it and then film yourself opening a "sealed box"?

 

Whenever I have filmed opening a box I made sure to turn the box over carefully to show the original seals, the labels, etc. When I've been uber suspicious I even opened it while filming right there in front of the postal inspector. Once I did that and discovered immediately the book was missing the centerfold and while still still filming resealed it and gave it to the same clerk to return. Guy still tried to fight it and it took forever to get the money back (but this was in the days before paypal).

 

 

8mm had to be a pain, j/k

[BlowUpTheMoon]

8mm had to be a pain, j/k

 

[Junkdrawer]

8mm had to be a pain, j/k

 

kids these days don't know how good they've got it

[TimelyFinds]

update: Paypal wants a police report.... sad part was they will not call and confirm if even the actual person on other end. Damn their process and b.s, do not get me wrong- it probably makes legal sense or corporate sense (maytbe)- just hate the inhumane nature of all these companies these days. sorry for rant.

 

filed with ic3 online (Complaint Referral Form Internet Crime Complaint Center)

figure keep these details coming in case someone has to sadly go through this in the future.

 

At this point I think it is an insurance claim fraud. Filed under their own name and hoping they could get me to send pictures and go along with that. Just a guess.

 

But anyways, keep y'all posted as this long ridiculous process continues....

 

[mattn792]

I'd suggest calling the Postal Inspection office that covers your area as well to report this (their website should direct you to the right office). Ask to speak with the duty agent. If there is a USPS insurance claim filed in accordance with this, they should be able to find and investigate it.