Are Local Comic Shops (LCS) necssary for the hobby to prosper?

[the blob]

Media that a lot of us grew up with is going away or gone. Book stores and record stores have all but disapeared. I doubt I could find a sports card shop any more. Comic book stores are just hanging in. Sadly, it's all going electronic.

 

Just saw most albums sold last year in the past 30 or something like that. I could never tell if it was live or Memorex, but some people love the vinyl.

 

 

One of my local shops is like 60% comics, 40% sports cards (I don't know what the revenue is, just floor space). They sell majik, of course, but there are no tables or any of that.

 

Frankly, I have no idea if they ever sell any of their individually priced cards in the display cases, but all day long they are selling expensive packs of cards to people buying them for chase cards. Someone puts a $100 bill down and opens a bunch of packs. It's like a game. They get a good card and the clerk takes a picture. They claim they put the expensive ones up on ebay right away. sometimes they just give the commons back to the store. There are still a lot of 20somethng to 40something stock broker types in this town who have plenty of cash and this is a hobby. they can blow $100 at a strip club in 25 minutes too.

[Robot Man]

Vinyl has shown a new resergence. All the young hipsters are "going retro". There is also a lot of music on vinyl that is not available any other way. If you have a good ear, you can really tell the difference between vinyl and digital recordings. A lot of people are going back and looking for old tube equipment to play their records on. The sound is warmer and full.

 

The problem is there are so very few places where you can buy them any more. Even CDs are disapearing. Kind of sad...

 

 

[Tony S]

I think there is still a need for comic shops. Because people still enjoy going to them. But maybe the problem is that most should not be called "comic shops". We have three in Evansville IN. But none are old school all about comics. Comics are just a part. All three have other things and those other things probably from a financial standpoint are greater than just the comics.

 

Two of the stores have been in business many decades. They both do magic gaming with a separate area. One is a regular octopus. The main business is used books. Then there are comics, sports memorabilia, vinyl, video games and DVD's.

 

The second store that has been around a long time is closer to what most think of. Comics and Magic gaming are the largest parts of the business. They also have tons of trades. And they are the store that has regular events for local artists. Those draw good crowds.

 

The newest store also has the freshest look. An entire room of retro arcade gaming is probably the biggest draw. On weekends there is often a wait to get in. Video games and systems, lots of toys, Pop vinyl figures and comics.

 

The real reason I believe comic shops are important to the hobby is what I said first. People enjoy going to them. People enjoy meeting other collectors and fans face to face. I like this forum, but it's no substitute for actually meeting other collectors and fans. Especially that live nearby.

[fmaz]

The market always adjusts and dictates what is necessary and what is not. And the hobby survives as long as people still have ways to access content.

 

I assume depending on our ages we've all gone through various stages of how we've purchaced comics throughout the years, right?

 

For me, when I was little it was off a spinner rack at the local drug store.

When I got back into the hobby after college it was a small LCS

Later it was a big LCS that is in my area.

But as I've gotten older I found going there to be inconvieneint, so I switched my orders to Midtown comics. I still visit the LCS once a month just to seach for back issues and basically to look around and say hi.

And of course, ebay is an ever-present force in both my buying and selling.

 

And I know we all miss some of the interaction at old LCS.

 

But let me offer this: Years ago? THIS very conversation would have taken place AT a LCS. But this board has replace the social aspect of an LCS for many people. Here is where we come to get our fix of discussion all things related to comics.

 

The market adjusts. The hobby survives.

[nocutename]

I think with Half Price Books and the proliferation of graphic novels online (amazon et al), there is a shrinking market for a comics store. Someone was complaining on FB that the sales threads were basically a proxy for ebay and there were no more deals. Everyone is looking to flip, so the stores have to compete with all the online sellers that don't have the overhead. I don't know about new issues, but apparently they're flat to down.

 

So with having to order lots of dead stock to get the rare variants that everyone wants, having to compete with larger volume online sellers for graphic novels, and the flippers that will sell back issues without the expenses I don't see how an LCS can survive let alone prosper. Every time I see a thread about someone asking about opening a LCS, everyone says just burn your money and kick yourself in the nuts and you'll get the same effect.

 

It's odd, comics seem to be at an all time high in popularity and acceptance, yet the stores seem to be an endangered species. Cons, auction sites and online sellers are probably less risky endeavors, and they're all taking a piece of the pie.

 

Did you ever order from HPB or Amazon or Half.Ebay? Good luck on getting anything in like new condition or heck decent looking condition. Good luck on it not being completely bend or dinged up during shipping as it is thrown into an unpadded envelope with a hope and a pray. Those are the worst places to purchase books, IMO.

 

When I used to read a lot, I did purchase many of my TPBs online. It was cheaper than the LCS. However, I did make some purchases at the store. I purchased my full Flash by Johns run book by book at my LCS. It was a great experience, reading it then returning to get the next volume and discussing the book at the shop. Fond memories and for that I would never sell that set.

 

However, it isn't an expensive set to collect. Anything with a price point about 15.00 and I purchase online. Now if the shop were to give a 15% discount on trades, I probably would purchase more in store.

 

On the flip side, I don't think this younger generation has that nostalgia gene. They don't seem to embrace collecting or care about much of anything outside of their cell phone. That partnered with the geographic location and many having lack of travel means makes getting to hobby stores harder.

 

 

[ChiSoxFan]

My LCS, which I had started going to 2007, changed ownership a couple of years back. A large part of the reason I went there was the conversations I had with the owner, both about the marketplace and books in general. I found that once he left, I pretty much lost the desire to make the 30 minute or so drive to go to the new store (which had changed the layout under the new owner and that just didn't have the same, welcoming feel, it had under the prior owner).

 

The end result was I closed my subscription folder, and that was what ended my collecting of modern books for the most part. I had stayed into collecting moderns mainly on the recommendations of the store owner, who would suggest new titles to add to my pull list (there were certain titles I stayed with, no matter how bad they got, out of force of habit). Without the LCS influence, I not only am not trying new books, but I dropped my long-running titles as well. Now, I focus on filling older runs and buying Bronze Age on back. I had already figured out how much I was spending on new books and what that could translate to older back issues, but no longer going to a LCS is what drove me out of picking up new material entirely.

 

That's where I think the downfall lies with the loss of the LCS -- less chance for readers to try out new material, and/or to continue picking up titles when their quality goes down (for many people, it's probably much easier to cancel an online subscription or to not order something that's not any good than it is to tell someone face-to-face who've you've done business with and who you might be very friendly with that you're cutting your pull list). That's less sales for publishers and potentially a death knell for the industry (Marvel and DC's inability to attract new readers -- and to an extent, their disinterest in seemingly trying -- even with the huge popularity of characters in movies and television, has been a colossal blunder that boggles the mind, but is clearly a sign of short-sighted thinking that many other businesses see and have seen from the people running them).

[NoMan]

there's actually a couple of pretty good shops in my area. Also a really bad one. Just bought some Miller back issues in the good shop. Paid a little more but I'm glad they're there and enjoy going in so I didn't mind a bit.

[MK Ultra]

I think with Half Price Books and the proliferation of graphic novels online (amazon et al), there is a shrinking market for a comics store. Someone was complaining on FB that the sales threads were basically a proxy for ebay and there were no more deals. Everyone is looking to flip, so the stores have to compete with all the online sellers that don't have the overhead. I don't know about new issues, but apparently they're flat to down.

 

So with having to order lots of dead stock to get the rare variants that everyone wants, having to compete with larger volume online sellers for graphic novels, and the flippers that will sell back issues without the expenses I don't see how an LCS can survive let alone prosper. Every time I see a thread about someone asking about opening a LCS, everyone says just burn your money and kick yourself in the nuts and you'll get the same effect.

 

It's odd, comics seem to be at an all time high in popularity and acceptance, yet the stores seem to be an endangered species. Cons, auction sites and online sellers are probably less risky endeavors, and they're all taking a piece of the pie.

 

Did you ever order from HPB or Amazon or Half.Ebay? Good luck on getting anything in like new condition or heck decent looking condition. Good luck on it not being completely bend or dinged up during shipping as it is thrown into an unpadded envelope with a hope and a pray. Those are the worst places to purchase books, IMO.

 

When I used to read a lot, I did purchase many of my TPBs online. It was cheaper than the LCS. However, I did make some purchases at the store. I purchased my full Flash by Johns run book by book at my LCS. It was a great experience, reading it then returning to get the next volume and discussing the book at the shop. Fond memories and for that I would never sell that set.

 

However, it isn't an expensive set to collect. Anything with a price point about 15.00 and I purchase online. Now if the shop were to give a 15% discount on trades, I probably would purchase more in store.

 

On the flip side, I don't think this younger generation has that nostalgia gene. They don't seem to embrace collecting or care about much of anything outside of their cell phone. That partnered with the geographic location and many having lack of travel means makes getting to hobby stores harder.

 

 

I've bought TPB from amazon. It doesn't really bother me that they're a little dinged up, comparable to what I've seen at LCS. Haven't bought new single issues in over ten years. I was reading the newly relaunched Iron Fist series among others, when they relaunched Iron Fist again. Plus the constant cross overs that you had to buy a title I wasn't interested in to follow the story. Finally, I noticed that paying $3 for a comic and reading it in ten minutes left me wondering why. I'm sure the people that want all new books to be 9.8 will buy local, but I think the people that buy them to read and read them will buy from online sellers.

 

My point is, the LCS is not necessary anymore. Lots of other alternatives to buy. Lots of other alternatives to sell. Lots of other alternatives to socialize on a much bigger scale.

 

I went to Tropic Comics back in high school days, and Phil's Comic Shoppe too. Phil sold baseball cards and was dead inside. Owner really didn't have much of a personality, especially when compared to John, and to a lesser extent Rob. As a teen I though John was the coolest. But he mocked and made fun of everyone. The Comics and Games Exchange out west was his favorite target, with all the books he'd display as "not for sale". Rob was funny as hell, but not at the expense of others. Changing song lyrics, etc. I think those behaviors would be seriously frowned upon today and they'd likely set up a safe zone outside for all those with hurt feelings. Ergo, no environment.

[aerischan]

On the flip side, I don't think this younger generation has that nostalgia gene. They don't seem to embrace collecting or care about much of anything outside of their cell phone. That partnered with the geographic location and many having lack of travel means makes getting to hobby stores harder.

It's hard to be nostalgic about comics when you've never actually read comics as a kid.

 

I reckon majority of funding for this KickStarter is due to nostalgia from millennials who grew up watching the anime so I don't think it's accurate to say they're missing the "nostalgia gene". More than likely, practical concerns such as being able to pay rent and buy groceries override the desire for a $1000+ key.

 

That's where I think the downfall lies with the loss of the LCS -- less chance for readers to try out new material, and/or to continue picking up titles when their quality goes down (for many people, it's probably much easier to cancel an online subscription or to not order something that's not any good than it is to tell someone face-to-face who've you've done business with and who you might be very friendly with that you're cutting your pull list). That's less sales for publishers and potentially a death knell for the industry (Marvel and DC's inability to attract new readers -- and to an extent, their disinterest in seemingly trying -- even with the huge popularity of characters in movies and television, has been a colossal blunder that boggles the mind, but is clearly a sign of short-sighted thinking that many other businesses see and have seen from the people running them).

If the only reason people are buying comics is because of force of habit, then I honestly don't feel any sympathy for the industry.

 

That said, I do think there are tons of good comics out there. Even Marvel has a few good titles. Unfortunately, they tend to be buried by the sheer number of titles and #1s being released every month.

 

As for the LCS being necessary for picking up new titles and comic discussions, more people are turning to social media for that. Here's a fairly new thread in Moderns: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9731631#Post9731631

 

Personally, my comic reading list began with a Tumblr post. Comixology Unlimited got me into trying titles from Image and smaller publishers and it was due to Comixology's $1 Black Friday sales that I started reading DC Rebirth. The LCS never factors in at all. I reckon the experience is different for people who have been visiting LCS from boyhood. In my case, the first ever LCS I went to might as well have a sign posted "Girls and anime/manga fans are not welcome."

[HighRadArt]

I was at one of two of the LCSs in my area recently and watched a customer buying x-factors to fill in a run they were working on. The owner and the customer never pulled any of the books out to look at them and all I could do was watch as book after book was sold at $4 each (no keys). He asked me if I was interested in an ASM 48 (vg) and I said not for $400 dollars. He has toys, cards, TPBs and comics literally stacked from the floor to the ceiling in every corner of his store. I usually only end up buying supplies from him since most of his moderns are usually bent in some way and amazed he's still in business.

[The_SandMan]

Now I will caveat this by saying that I have not bought a raw comic since 1983. Prior to 1983, I spent WAY too much time in my two LCS (Queen City Comics and Grant Comics) here in Buffalo. My career took my on another path and I just rekindled my passion this past year.

 

Over the past 9 months I have had the pleasure of buying Sketch covers, CGC graded issues that I wish I would have bought and newer SS issues that look like ones that I will want to keep. I also lamented the many issues I sold in that year (NM copies of TOS 39, Avengers 1,X-Men 1, Hulk 1, and Conan 1-50). I am also grading and selling the many thousands of comics that I bought in the 70's and 80's. At first, I was upset that I never put backing boards on my issues until a year ago, but then I realized that 99% of all of them came back White Pages. Now, I am not so upset with my lapse in judgement.

 

As far as that likely 9.4-9.6 TOS #39... If you were the dealer that bought this copy in 1982-83 at a Buffalo airport hotel for 120.00, please let me know how it turned out. I bought it for 40.00 and was happy for the sale, but would love to know what happened to it.

 

Over this past 6 months, my LCS owner (Emil at Queen City Comics) has been such a great help with supplies and suggestions for my new hobby. I look forward to the future of this hobby online and in person.

 

So, YES to LCS support!

 

 

Don't forget Norm from Fantasy World on hertle Ave

[ThreeSeas]

I am at the point where I do not know if I want to go to any of my LCS. I got spoiled by the shop I went to from 1984 until they closed in 1998, because they gave me a good discount on new comics. It got to the point back then that my standard discount was eventually 28% on new comics, graphic novels, etc., I guess I was spending quite a bit, and I was there every week, only missing if I was on vacation. If I remember correctly, I started out getting 10% - 20% from the get-go.

 

My LCS owner's mother had passed away and it wrecked him, after that some days when I got there he was as high as a kite on who knows what. One time he had two black eyes where he got beat up by someone from a bad drug deal (from what I heard from others). Needless to say it seemed that his heart was no longer in the shop. I am not sure of all the reasons, but in 1998 he closed it. I looked him up on Facebook last summer and coincidentally he had just posted photos of himself with a black and blue face from a fight he had with "neighbors" is what he said. Twenty years later and still the same problems...man...

 

Anyways, back to modern comic shops. I totally understand not giving a break from cover price because in today's world you need every cent you can get to stay afloat, but do any of you current shop owners offer any kind of a discount? If I was told I need to spend X dollars a month to qualify or something like that I might actually go for it, but so far I have not seen anything like that being offered.

 

Lately when I have missed an issue from my LCS I went right to the publisher online and ordered. One publisher even offers discounts so I can often get comics cheaper that way. The gas I spend (30 miles to LCS) is typically equal to the postage I pay to get comics sent right to my house, so I do not really have an incentive to buy at the LCS.

 

The back issues that I see at my LCS's are typically post-1992 drek, so there is nothing there for me either.

 

For the time being I'll probably still stop in at the LCS for my new stuff, but I am not sure for how much longer. I just don't feel I have the loyalty that I had towards the shops of 20+ years ago.

[Robot Man]

In general, I haven't bought new comics in as long as I can remember. The last series I gave up was Simpsons at #100. I have from time to time bought a few like when the New 52 came out. I am mainly a back issue guy mostly GA.

 

I have two shops real close to me but neither stock any back issues. I actually witnessed the owner of one turn down a nice SA collection right in front of me.

 

So, other than supplies (which I can get anywhere), I really don't go to either much any more.

 

I would hate to see them close though just because it is nice to know there are places to buy comics if I wanted to. That and the nostalgia of going into the shops.

 

Nice to know there are still great shops still out there. So Cal comics in San Diego, A-! in Sacramento, Bedrock City in Houston come to mind and I know there are others that one could actually go into and buy old comics. Like record stores, I would really miss that.

[aerischan]

Anyways, back to modern comic shops. I totally understand not giving a break from cover price because in today's world you need every cent you can get to stay afloat, but do any of you current shop owners offer any kind of a discount? If I was told I need to spend X dollars a month to qualify or something like that I might actually go for it, but so far I have not seen anything like that being offered.

My current LCS offers 30% off Diamond Previews preorders for DC/Marvel and 20% for other pubs. The LCS requires prepayment for preorders and they charge 3% fee if prepaying via credit card (no fee for cash/check). Preorders are due by the 18th of each month.

 

For regular priced items, they don't offer discounts but they do have a rewards program which is equivalent to a 6-10% rebate for every dollar spent in merchandise. No rewards for discounted items.

 

Just picked up my first LCS preorder Wednesday. So much easier on the budget. DCBS and Midtown are still cheaper even with weekly shipping but the instant gratification factor is nice.

[mrwoogieman]

My LCS gives me a $20 store credit for every $100 I spend, excluding supplies I believe, but including trades and hardcovers. That works out to a discount of slightly less than 20%, I guess.

 

 

[1Cool]

Side question - why is it all the LCS owners I've met seem to hate CGC or graded books? I've talked to a half dozen of the local comic shop owners and even though most set up at all the local Cons all of them have said they do not like graded books? And even while travelling I never seem to see graded books behind the counter. I'm sure they are out there but every one I've been to express a dislike for anything graded.

[aardvark88]

At smaller local cons, everyone goes long box diving for $1 or 10c blow out comics. Slabs are too heavy to carry to cons and the fixed costs (slabbing, shipping fees, duty, tax) makes their retail price higher with potentially less room to discount unless u got lucky and hit 9.8, 9.9.

[Ron C.]

Now I will caveat this by saying that I have not bought a raw comic since 1983. Prior to 1983, I spent WAY too much time in my two LCS (Queen City Comics and Grant Comics) here in Buffalo. My career took my on another path and I just rekindled my passion this past year.

 

Over the past 9 months I have had the pleasure of buying Sketch covers, CGC graded issues that I wish I would have bought and newer SS issues that look like ones that I will want to keep. I also lamented the many issues I sold in that year (NM copies of TOS 39, Avengers 1,X-Men 1, Hulk 1, and Conan 1-50). I am also grading and selling the many thousands of comics that I bought in the 70's and 80's. At first, I was upset that I never put backing boards on my issues until a year ago, but then I realized that 99% of all of them came back White Pages. Now, I am not so upset with my lapse in judgement.

 

As far as that likely 9.4-9.6 TOS #39... If you were the dealer that bought this copy in 1982-83 at a Buffalo airport hotel for 120.00, please let me know how it turned out. I bought it for 40.00 and was happy for the sale, but would love to know what happened to it.

 

Over this past 6 months, my LCS owner (Emil at Queen City Comics) has been such a great help with supplies and suggestions for my new hobby. I look forward to the future of this hobby online and in person.

 

So, YES to LCS support!

 

 

Don't forget Norm from Fantasy World on hertle Ave

 

 

I don't remember Fantasy World?? I spent my comic buying time with Dominic at Grant's Books (Hertel near Colvin) and Emil (When Queen City comics was still on Bailey). Both places were amazing for me. I moved out of town in 1983, so if this was after that, I wouldn't have known about it.

[Lazyboy]

Side question - why is it all the LCS owners I've met seem to hate CGC or graded books? I've talked to a half dozen of the local comic shop owners and even though most set up at all the local Cons all of them have said they do not like graded books? And even while travelling I never seem to see graded books behind the counter. I'm sure they are out there but every one I've been to express a dislike for anything graded.

 

If you ran a regular retail business that counted on your cash flow and expenses being relatively steady, why would you want to tie up any amount of money for any amount of time just to make a product even more niche?

[Artboy99]

Side question - why is it all the LCS owners I've met seem to hate CGC or graded books? I've talked to a half dozen of the local comic shop owners and even though most set up at all the local Cons all of them have said they do not like graded books? And even while travelling I never seem to see graded books behind the counter. I'm sure they are out there but every one I've been to express a dislike for anything graded.

 

If you ran a regular retail business that counted on your cash flow and expenses being relatively steady, why would you want to tie up any amount of money for any amount of time just to make a product even more niche?

 

I can also see it from a different perspective: you have run a comic business for decades, and now "suddenly" you have some company telling you how to grade.

 

I think grading has come a long way in the last 10+ years, so I generally support CGC grading. All we need is some absolute consistency. I can dream.