modern ASM #667 variant sells for $9K

[Jaydogrules]

A history of Jay's expert opinion on this topic:

It all started when....

 

1. Originally Jaydog said that variants are separate from the print run numbers.

This was proven WRONG. He has acknowledged that he was wrong in thinking this.

 

2. Then jaydog tried to say that publishers print to the ratio. (1:25 - you'd divide the print run by 25, etc.)

He was shown in a number of ways to be in error.

a. A print run is not an even indication of who orders 25 at a time (i.e. for every 25 copies ordered, it could be 3 stores ordering only 8, 8, and 9, meaning none of them would get a 1:25, yet 25 copies were sold)

b. The amount of excess variants left over long after, that Diamond sells for 25-50 cents each.

c. Diamond and Comichron verifies that variants are a part of the print run.

 

3. Then jaydog tried to say that Marvel has only had one variant sale like that and it would never happen again, because they've tightened up their printing numbers!

This too was proven wrong as Marvel then had a Star Wars variant sale and then in June yet ANOTHER variant sale. And are currently having ANOTHER variant sale.

This is an instance where Marvel went back on their word (basically, lied), that he seems to forget about for some reason.

 

4. Then jaydog said its only for #1's and special books that there are left over variants for, because it's only THEN that Marvel might over print (though he could show no proof of this - it was only another one of his 'theories')

It was shown that's not true by actually posting the variant sale info from Diamond that shows more than half the books on it aren't #1's or special events.

 

5. Then jaydog, trying, I guess, to STILL rationalize the idea that publishers print pretty close to ratio, yet running out of ways to justify this thought process, said that publishers would never purposely over print, that it doesn't make sense.

It was shown, they HAVE with actual PROOF. Certified proof! Statement of publication proof! For decades they did it. It may be 10-20-30 years old, but it shows a pattern of consistent over printing that HAS occurred. Over and over and over and over!

We don't KNOW right now, if they are, because we don't have those numbers, but we do know they HAVE, for DECADES. Back when printing was much more expensive.

 

6. jaydog has said that Marvel rounds up to case packs

No proof of this is anywhere. Just someone else's words. No ACTUAL proof. No factual data or information that shows it.

 

 

And there you have it. As lopsided a debate as you could ever imagine.

 

 

Nice attempted misdirection from your absolute fail with the info regarding this book earlier. Is this you trying to save face now by trying to change the conversation and resorting once again to your tired, debunked, and played out go-to arguments regarding print runs? Your generalities are again, irrelevant, because , as we have already discussed, this book is an anomaly. A mystery unto itself that has slowly revealed itself over the years as being something unique, special, and beyond classification.

 

Glad you were able to get all that off your chest though. Maybe you'll be able to get some sleep tonight.

 

-J.

[awakeintheashes]

All I know is, this thread can't be good for the book's values going forward.

 

Plus variants have a tough going in general. Unless forever tied to a #1 or a 1st app., there's always the chance of flashier and/or rarer book (even by the same artist) around the corner, a newer and better flavor.

 

Are you kidding ? This thread is only making it more famous. Just like the other hundred or so before it have, across multiple other forums and websites going back several years now.

 

-J.

 

I don't think visceral forum-wide criticism counts, with the flames continually fanned by some detractors... increasingly looking more like the Alamo.

 

Your off the cuff remarks only prove you know nothing about the book, its history, or its past price points over the years.

 

And if you're talking about the same three or four haters who say the same ignorant every time another thread is started on the subject, you're right , that doesn't count. These boards are not the beginning and the end of the hobby, the book is famous hobby wide and sells for whatever it does regardless of all the jibber jabber. Don't be naive.

 

See, for example, this latest, most recent high sale of $9k for a blue 9.8 (one of only 12 in the world).

 

-J.

[revat]

All I know is, this thread can't be good for the book's values going forward.

 

Plus variants have a tough going in general. Unless forever tied to a #1 or a 1st app., there's always the chance of flashier and/or rarer book (even by the same artist) around the corner, a newer and better flavor.

 

Are you kidding ? This thread is only making it more famous. Just like the other hundred or so before it have, across multiple other forums and websites going back several years now.

 

-J.

 

I don't think visceral forum-wide criticism counts, with the flames continually fanned by some detractors... increasingly looking more like the Alamo.

 

Your off the cuff remarks only prove you know nothing about the book, its history, or its past price points over the years.

 

And if you're talking about the same three or four haters who say the same ignorant every time another thread is started on the subject, you're right , that doesn't count. These boards are not the beginning and the end of the hobby, the book is famous hobby wide and sells for whatever it does regardless of all the jibber jabber. Don't be naive.

 

See, for example, this latest, most recent high sale of $9k for a blue 9.8 (one of only 12 in the world).

 

-J.

 

I would have put the hat on the top edge on the corner, but I understand why you put it on the grade.

[Bird]

watch your jibber jabber!

[Prince Namor]

A history of Jay's expert opinion on this topic:

It all started when....

 

1. Originally Jaydog said that variants are separate from the print run numbers.

This was proven WRONG. He has acknowledged that he was wrong in thinking this.

 

2. Then jaydog tried to say that publishers print to the ratio. (1:25 - you'd divide the print run by 25, etc.)

He was shown in a number of ways to be in error.

a. A print run is not an even indication of who orders 25 at a time (i.e. for every 25 copies ordered, it could be 3 stores ordering only 8, 8, and 9, meaning none of them would get a 1:25, yet 25 copies were sold)

b. The amount of excess variants left over long after, that Diamond sells for 25-50 cents each.

c. Diamond and Comichron verifies that variants are a part of the print run.

 

3. Then jaydog tried to say that Marvel has only had one variant sale like that and it would never happen again, because they've tightened up their printing numbers!

This too was proven wrong as Marvel then had a Star Wars variant sale and then in June yet ANOTHER variant sale. And are currently having ANOTHER variant sale.

This is an instance where Marvel went back on their word (basically, lied), that he seems to forget about for some reason.

 

4. Then jaydog said its only for #1's and special books that there are left over variants for, because it's only THEN that Marvel might over print (though he could show no proof of this - it was only another one of his 'theories')

It was shown that's not true by actually posting the variant sale info from Diamond that shows more than half the books on it aren't #1's or special events.

 

5. Then jaydog, trying, I guess, to STILL rationalize the idea that publishers print pretty close to ratio, yet running out of ways to justify this thought process, said that publishers would never purposely over print, that it doesn't make sense.

It was shown, they HAVE with actual PROOF. Certified proof! Statement of publication proof! For decades they did it. It may be 10-20-30 years old, but it shows a pattern of consistent over printing that HAS occurred. Over and over and over and over!

We don't KNOW right now, if they are, because we don't have those numbers, but we do know they HAVE, for DECADES. Back when printing was much more expensive.

 

6. jaydog has said that Marvel rounds up to case packs

No proof of this is anywhere. Just someone else's words. No ACTUAL proof. No factual data or information that shows it.

 

 

And there you have it. As lopsided a debate as you could ever imagine.

 

 

Nice attempted misdirection from your absolute fail with the info regarding this book earlier. Is this you trying to save face now by trying to change the conversation and resorting once again to your tired, debunked, and played out go-to arguments regarding print runs? Your generalities are again, irrelevant, because , as we have already discussed, this book is an anomaly. A mystery unto itself that has slowly revealed itself over the years as being something unique, special, and beyond classification.

 

Glad you were able to get all that off your chest though. Maybe you'll be able to get some sleep tonight.

 

-J.

 

The only thing I've said about the book is you can't PROVE any of the claims you make about its 'rarity'.

 

That's FACT. You can't.

 

No misdirection. Just showing how you consistently argue your point until you are proven wrong.

That may or may not happen with this book.

As it is right now, you have no proof to show you're right.

[exitmusicblue]

I suppose this kind of thing has been happening since the dawn of time... imagining J on a street corner in 1920s garb yellin' get yours, gets yours !

[jimbo_707]

All I know is, if I see one at a garage sale, I'm buying it!

[mysterio]

All I know is, this thread can't be good for the book's values going forward.

 

Plus variants have a tough going in general. Unless forever tied to a #1 or a 1st app., there's always the chance of flashier and/or rarer book (even by the same artist) around the corner, a newer and better flavor.

 

Are you kidding ? This thread is only making it more famous. Just like the other hundred or so before it have, across multiple other forums and websites going back several years now.

 

-J.

 

I don't think visceral forum-wide criticism counts, with the flames continually fanned by some detractors... increasingly looking more like the Alamo.

 

Your off the cuff remarks only prove you know nothing about the book, its history, or its past price points over the years.

 

And if you're talking about the same three or four haters who say the same ignorant every time another thread is started on the subject, you're right , that doesn't count. These boards are not the beginning and the end of the hobby, the book is famous hobby wide and sells for whatever it does regardless of all the jibber jabber. Don't be naive.

 

See, for example, this latest, most recent high sale of $9k for a blue 9.8 (one of only 12 in the world).

 

-J.

 

ig·no·rant

 

/ˈiɡnərənt/

 

adjective

 

adjective: ignorant

 

•lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular.

"they were ignorant of astronomy"

 

I find it a little ironic that you label your detractors as ignorant when you've shown yourself to be just as ignorant. Everyone is ignorant when it comes to the print run of this variant, and how many were printed/distributed. Your detractors just keep pointing this fact out and acknowledge their ignorance, while you pretend like it doesn't matter and is simply a distraction to be ignored or explained away through numbers that don't explain anything.

[ChiSoxFan]

Your generalities are again, irrelevant, because , as we have already discussed, this book is an anomaly. A mystery unto itself that has slowly revealed itself over the years to being something unique, special, and beyond classification.

 

-J.

 

Holy hell -- quotes like this make it sound like this book is a Double Action #1.

 

Hyperbole doesn't help your position any. Actual proof would, but we're not going to get that unless someone here works for Marvel (and/or the printer at the time) and chimes in with actual verification of a print run.

 

The book is currently rare and valuable, and sought after by at least a number of buyers. In 20 years, it may be all of those things, or none of those things. Anyone claiming to know 100% -- on either end of the discussion -- which one of those fates is true is engaging -- as I said before -- in pure speculation, unless you can magically see the future.

 

 

 

[exitmusicblue]

I think J is a masochist.

[Hado]

All I know is, this thread can't be good for the book's values going forward.

 

Plus variants have a tough going in general. Unless forever tied to a #1 or a 1st app., there's always the chance of flashier and/or rarer book (even by the same artist) around the corner, a newer and better flavor.

 

Are you kidding ? This thread is only making it more famous. Just like the other hundred or so before it have, across multiple other forums and websites going back several years now.

 

-J.

 

I don't think visceral forum-wide criticism counts, with the flames continually fanned by some detractors... increasingly looking more like the Alamo.

 

Your off the cuff remarks only prove you know nothing about the book, its history, or its past price points over the years.

 

And if you're talking about the same three or four haters who say the same ignorant every time another thread is started on the subject, you're right , that doesn't count. These boards are not the beginning and the end of the hobby, the book is famous hobby wide and sells for whatever it does regardless of all the jibber jabber. Don't be naive.

 

See, for example, this latest, most recent high sale of $9k for a blue 9.8 (one of only 12 in the world).

 

-J.

Undocumented private sale.

[jsilverjanet]

Can I get a list of the "official haters" of this book?

 

It seems the list has grown because of this thread.

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

All I know is, this thread can't be good for the book's values going forward.

 

Plus variants have a tough going in general. Unless forever tied to a #1 or a 1st app., there's always the chance of flashier and/or rarer book (even by the same artist) around the corner, a newer and better flavor.

 

Are you kidding ? This thread is only making it more famous. Just like the other hundred or so before it have, across multiple other forums and websites going back several years now.

 

-J.

 

I don't think visceral forum-wide criticism counts, with the flames continually fanned by some detractors... increasingly looking more like the Alamo.

 

Your off the cuff remarks only prove you know nothing about the book, its history, or its past price points over the years.

 

And if you're talking about the same three or four haters who say the same ignorant every time another thread is started on the subject, you're right , that doesn't count. These boards are not the beginning and the end of the hobby, the book is famous hobby wide and sells for whatever it does regardless of all the jibber jabber. Don't be naive.

 

See, for example, this latest, most recent high sale of $9k for a blue 9.8 (one of only 12 in the world).

 

-J.

Undocumented private sale.

 

Like most comic book sales.

 

But thanks to jsilverjanet it has been "documented" here, publicized and picked up by other outlets. 300+ more potential Google hits for the book now.

 

Does the seller need to show you his PayPal account to prove it to you ?

 

Get over yourself dude.

 

-J.

[paul747]

Jdog is a pain in the . I argue with him from time to time ! I hate this book only cause I don't own it ! that's the absolute only reason. I missed the boat ! I really don't think he has to prove anything, the proof (for now) is in the pudding. If there are 1000's of copies please tell me where they are? surely a $9,000 sale would cause someone to list some?

 

For now, if I was a speculator, I would say that the "hearsay" evidence is pointing to a Jdog win ! For now!

This book is rare and people want it and will pay for it, this happens all the time in this hobby. This book is the modern unicorn.

 

I personally need to see over 100 of these come out before i would say his numbers are off..

 

 

 

[exitmusicblue]

Can I get a list of the "official haters" of this book?

 

It seems the list has grown because of this thread.

 

 

What matters are the points being made, the substantive holes being poked by the growing number of skeptics and observers playing with this as if it were an insect curiosity, then crushing it for its fragility.

 

Defenders would best pipe down and let the thread die a natural death... but as it stands, the ridicule continues to mount.

 

No one wants to be the fool; even billionaires don't get to be that way by paying way over reasonable market for things, or don't last if they do.

 

I'm just glad to see the sheer amount of skepticism towards these non-#1, non-1st app. ballyhooed variants that can be out-done whenever Marvel/DC/etc. sees fit. The card market these days is rife with similar marketing schemes by companies like Topps, and it drives away modern collectors who see their mirage collectibles plummet in value once the next shinier thing comes along.

 

The fewer folks fall for this, the healthier our hobby.

[Jaydogrules]

Can I get a list of the "official haters" of this book?

 

It seems the list has grown because of this thread.

 

 

What matters are the points being made, the substantive holes being poked by the growing number of skeptics and observers playing with this as if it were an insect curiosity, then crushing it for its fragility.

 

Defenders would best pipe down and let the thread die a natural death... but as it stands, the ridicule continues to mount.

 

No one wants to be the fool; even billionaires don't get to be that way by paying way over reasonable market for things, or don't last if they do.

 

What thread have you been reading ? Nobody has" poked holes" in jacksh!t. I'm the only one stating any facts, figures and actual sales and distribution data points, supported by links.

 

If your idea of "substantive" hole poking is funny gifs, snarky one-liners, and preposterous musings such as : "I believe there are cases of this book in a warehouse", then you have a very low standard of proof (but only for the position that you agree with , natch). The value is the value. Two or three sales of this book to well-heeled collectors a year will never "bring down the hobby". That is ridiculous rhetoric and you know it. What it sells for is neither right nor wrong. It was what it was, it is what it is, and it will be whatever it will be.

 

-J.

[exitmusicblue]

Can I get a list of the "official haters" of this book?

 

It seems the list has grown because of this thread.

 

 

What matters are the points being made, the substantive holes being poked by the growing number of skeptics and observers playing with this as if it were an insect curiosity, then crushing it for its fragility.

 

Defenders would best pipe down and let the thread die a natural death... but as it stands, the ridicule continues to mount.

 

No one wants to be the fool; even billionaires don't get to be that way by paying way over reasonable market for things, or don't last if they do.

 

 

What matters are the points being made, the substantive holes being poked by the growing number of skeptics and observers playing with this as if it were an insect curiosity, then crushing it for its fragility.

 

Defenders would best pipe down and let the thread die a natural death... but as it stands, the ridicule continues to mount.

 

No one wants to be the fool; even billionaires don't get to be that way by paying way over reasonable market for things, or don't last if they do.

 

I'm just glad to see the sheer amount of skepticism towards these non-#1, non-1st app. ballyhooed variants that can be out-done whenever Marvel/DC/etc. sees fit. The card market these days is rife with similar marketing schemes by companies like Topps, and it drives away modern collectors who see their mirage collectibles plummet in value once the next shinier thing comes along.

 

The fewer folks fall for this, the healthier our hobby.

 

What thread have you been reading ? Nobody has" poked holes" in jacksh!t. I'm the only one stating any facts, figures and actual sales and distribution data points, supported by links.

 

If your idea of "substantive" hole poking is funny gifs, snarky one-liners, and preposterous musings such as : "I believe there are cases of this book in a warehouse", then you have a very low standard of proof (but only for the position that you agree with , natch). The value is the value. Two or three sales of this book to well-heeled collectors a year will never "bring down the hobby". That is ridiculous rhetoric and you know it. What it sells for is neither right nor wrong. It was what it was, it is what it is, and it will be whatever it will be.

 

-J.

 

You've yet to address the very real possibility of Marvel encouraged by this hooplah, commissioning Del'Otto for a rarer shinier variant, repeat process 10 times over, and this book collapsing 50%+ in value (still too high in many eyes).

 

Unlike many in the skeptics camp, I like and collect Modern. But this is so very silly.

[ygogolak]

Can I get a list of the "official haters" of this book?

 

It seems the list has grown because of this thread.

 

 

What matters are the points being made, the substantive holes being poked by the growing number of skeptics and observers playing with this as if it were an insect curiosity, then crushing it for its fragility.

 

Defenders would best pipe down and let the thread die a natural death... but as it stands, the ridicule continues to mount.

 

No one wants to be the fool; even billionaires don't get to be that way by paying way over reasonable market for things, or don't last if they do.

 

 

What matters are the points being made, the substantive holes being poked by the growing number of skeptics and observers playing with this as if it were an insect curiosity, then crushing it for its fragility.

 

Defenders would best pipe down and let the thread die a natural death... but as it stands, the ridicule continues to mount.

 

No one wants to be the fool; even billionaires don't get to be that way by paying way over reasonable market for things, or don't last if they do.

 

I'm just glad to see the sheer amount of skepticism towards these non-#1, non-1st app. ballyhooed variants that can be out-done whenever Marvel/DC/etc. sees fit. The card market these days is rife with similar marketing schemes by companies like Topps, and it drives away modern collectors who see their mirage collectibles plummet in value once the next shinier thing comes along.

 

The fewer folks fall for this, the healthier our hobby.

 

What thread have you been reading ? Nobody has" poked holes" in jacksh!t. I'm the only one stating any facts, figures and actual sales and distribution data points, supported by links.

 

If your idea of "substantive" hole poking is funny gifs, snarky one-liners, and preposterous musings such as : "I believe there are cases of this book in a warehouse", then you have a very low standard of proof (but only for the position that you agree with , natch). The value is the value. Two or three sales of this book to well-heeled collectors a year will never "bring down the hobby". That is ridiculous rhetoric and you know it. What it sells for is neither right nor wrong. It was what it was, it is what it is, and it will be whatever it will be.

 

-J.

 

You've yet to address the very real possibility of Marvel encouraged by this hooplah, commissioning Del'Otto for a rarer shinier variant, repeat process 10 times over, and this book collapsing 50%+ in value (still too high in many eyes).

 

Unlike many in the skeptics camp, I like and collect Modern. But this is so very silly.

 

Already been done, IMO. Better art at least and known low print runs.

[exitmusicblue]

Can I get a list of the "official haters" of this book?

 

It seems the list has grown because of this thread.

 

 

 

What matters are the points being made, the substantive holes being poked by the growing number of skeptics and observers playing with this as if it were an insect curiosity, then crushing it for its fragility.

 

Defenders would best pipe down and let the thread die a natural death... but as it stands, the ridicule continues to mount.

 

No one wants to be the fool; even billionaires don't get to be that way by paying way over reasonable market for things, or don't last if they do.

 

I'm just glad to see the sheer amount of skepticism towards these non-#1, non-1st app. ballyhooed variants that can be out-done whenever Marvel/DC/etc. sees fit. The card market these days is rife with similar marketing schemes by companies like Topps, and it drives away modern collectors who see their mirage collectibles plummet in value once the next shinier thing comes along.

 

The fewer folks fall for this, the healthier our hobby.

 

What thread have you been reading ? Nobody has" poked holes" in jacksh!t. I'm the only one stating any facts, figures and actual sales and distribution data points, supported by links.

 

If your idea of "substantive" hole poking is funny gifs, snarky one-liners, and preposterous musings such as : "I believe there are cases of this book in a warehouse", then you have a very low standard of proof (but only for the position that you agree with , natch). The value is the value. Two or three sales of this book to well-heeled collectors a year will never "bring down the hobby". That is ridiculous rhetoric and you know it. What it sells for is neither right nor wrong. It was what it was, it is what it is, and it will be whatever it will be.

 

-J.

 

You've yet to address the very real possibility of Marvel encouraged by this hooplah, commissioning Del'Otto for a rarer shinier variant, repeat process 10 times over, and this book collapsing 50%+ in value (still too high in many eyes).

 

Unlike many in the skeptics camp, I like and collect Modern. But this is so very silly.

 

Already been done, IMO. Better art at least and known low print runs.

 

Sounds like we'll have forgotten and moved on to debating over new silliness in 5 years, 10 years, 15 years...

 

If anyone deems this the single greatest Spidey variant ever to be made for all time to come, I'm going to laugh and laugh and laugh hahaha

[Buzzetta]

Apparently I am a "hater"

 

Value is perceived by the audience.

 

His thanks for attention for this book feed his snake oil salesman hype machine. Like I said, I don't buy into it and even if what he said is true (concerning print run - which I do not buy into) it doesn't equate to a $10,000 value.

 

Btw... does anyone own the Original Art for the cover or the inked lines? I am wondering what that would go for since that is one of one.