X-MEN: DARK PHOENIX directed by Simon Kinberg (11/2/18) 4 4

[@therealsilvermane]

8 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

What is interesting is viewers 18 or younger rated this much stronger. I wonder if this is a Sophie Turner influence at play?

I saw this movie with a couple of adolescents (chaperone) and they all liked it. I think the movie has a strong misunderstood teenager theme that appeals to them. Throughout the movie, Jean seeks help from "adults" she trusts and none can help her. Maybe teens can relate to that.

[Bosco685]

4 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Box office returns aside, changing the ending wasn't the movie's problem. Skrulls, D'Bari, whatever. There was no real story or plot development in this movie, other than Jean being possessed by the Phoenix. 

SPOILERS AHEAD (don't really feel like pressing the hide button, and does anybody really care?)

Spoiler

 

Basically, in this movie, we're following Jean Grey from Point A to Point B to Point C as she looks for help from all the men in her life. First Charles, then her dad, then Magneto, then finally a D'Bari shape shifted as a woman. The "woman" gives her answers. Fine. But as she progresses through this journey, the stakes should be raised. The film artificially raises the stakes, but not enough happens in the movie for the audience to truly feel the heightened danger and for the characters to act or react the way they do.

After the school bonfire party when Jean loses control, she flees to her home. She argues with dad. She talks about hurting people. But did she really hurt anybody? A few bruises maybe. But nothing to really compel her to find her lost father. In the comics, she destroyed the D'Bari planet before visiting her home. There were high stakes there. In the movie, not so much. Does she start hurting her dad? No, she safely makes him pass out as the X-Men arrive. And when they arrive, they arrive in battle gear at opposite ends of the street like a showdown. Why? Jean has done nothing at this point to warrant the team to be in battle mode. And why do five police cars suddenly show up with guns a blazing? Again, no reason other than artificially raising the stakes. Then Jean accidentally kills Raven. It was an accident. But before Jean can react in the moment to what she's done, so we can feel her emotion and the movie can build on that, she flees. As a result, her crying scene in the alley is not as strong as it could have been.

When she seeks out Magneto, why is she again met with suspicion by the mutants and Magneto? I thought they were friendly at least? Magneto doesn't know what happened. And then the army shows up in helicopters. Why? Because of the police incident? And why do they show up at Genosha? And then why does Jean start attacking the helicopters? Again, other than Raven being killed on accident, nothing has happened  to warrant this level of tension and aggression in the movie. None of it made any sense. And then when Magneto learns that it was Raven's blood on Jean's shirt, he turns into a madman bent on revenge. Why? Was he that close to Raven? I thought he tried to kill her in Days of Future Past? And didn't Hank realize that it was an accident? Surely Charles would have known.

 I liked the psionic battle between Jean and Charles, as it was right out of the comics. But at the same time, it was underwhelming. Jean realizing that Charles truly cared for her is what turns the tide? A bit lackluster.

During Jean Grey's Phoenix hero moment, when she's taking out D'Bari minions left and right, she does it with a cold detachment that makes her seem as if she's still evil. Shouldn't we see more emotion on her face or something so that we can see that she's truly fighting for something other than simply crushing ants beneath her fingers?

There were a lot of small emotional moments throughout the film that I appreciated and which the actors performed well. The -----script by Simon Kinberg, however, simply didn't warrant those emotional moments, or larger moments for that matter. The plot had no organic story legs to stand on. There was no logical or emotional progression to the Dark Phoenix story. Perhaps part of the -----script were left out in an effort to condense the story into two hours, but by the time the ending arrives, it doesn't matter if it was in outer space or on a train.  The film up to that point hasn't really given us, or at least some of us, reason to care.

 

 

Glad you made the decision for others to post all the details. I guess with this female-led film you didn't want to let it get too far ahead. 

Now, to address your concerns:

Spoiler

1) She didn't even go to her dad until later. So jumping ahead like that just to convey your disappointment isn't actually following the movie.

2) Even in their early mission, Jean defers to Mytique as their leader (A FEMALE) rather than just looking to men. Nice try, though.

3) Why did Eric/Magneto not greet her with open arms. Let me make this big enough so it even breaks through your barriers. BLOOD ACROSS HER SHIRT.

4) With the big battle against the D'Bari, I guess this was mirroring Captain Marvel even more than we realized. Yet she was protecting her friends.

Now I wonder if you saw this in theaters, or if it was on one of those bootleg sites. The scenes were big enough to catch these details.

[Bosco685]

5 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I saw this movie with a couple of adolescents (chaperone) and they all liked it. I think the movie has a strong misunderstood teenager theme that appeals to them. Throughout the movie, Jean seeks help from "adults" she trusts and none can help her. Maybe teens can relate to that.

It definitely hit on that point where I could see younger audience members leaning into this as relatable.

[Bosco685]

23 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Spoiler

After the school bonfire party when Jean loses control, she flees to her home. She argues with dad. She talks about hurting people. But did she really hurt anybody? A few bruises maybe. But nothing to really compel her to find her lost father.

 

This one really missed the mark.

Spoiler

She knocked everyone completely down with the force of her power, which then would be considered a threat to them all. So of course she ran off after this to understand what was going on.

Again, I wonder if this was a theater viewing.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Bosco685

[Bosco685]

The box office road ahead is going to be interesting. And most probably painful.

[Darkowl]

 

[N e r V]

Hopefully this (these final Fox films out and coming out) will mark the end of Simon Kinberg’s association with any Marvel movies. I think New Mutants will be his last.

Not a fan of anything “creative” he puts his hands on. He doesn’t know how to write anything good.

Edited June 9, 2019 by N e r V

[Darkowl]

I really hate to see the X-Men franchise go out this way. X2 remains to be one of my all time favorite movies. DOFP, and First Class were also really good. But the rest of the franchise (not including Logan) was kind of a joke. What a shame. I hope Disney doesn't screw it up like they've done with Star Wars.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Darkowl

[Bosco685]

7 minutes ago, N e r V said:

Hopefully this (these final Fox films out and coming out) will mark the end of Simon Kinberg’s association with any Marvel movies. I think New Mutants will be his last.

Not a fan of anything “creative” he puts his hands on. He doesn’t know how to write anything good.

He wrote these. I wonder how they play out?

But his creative future is most probably going to be reevaluated.

[drotto]

41 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

It definitely hit on that point where I could see younger audience members leaning into this as relatable.

I wonder if it could also be related to younger fans having not seen Last Stand, and therefore do not realize this is the second pass at this story. Remember if you are less then 18 you are thinking Deadpool and Logan and have little relationship with the first 3 films.

[N e r V]

19 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

He wrote these. I wonder how they play out?

But his creative future is most probably going to be reevaluated.

He’s just not a good writer. 

[Bosco685]

6 minutes ago, drotto said:

I wonder if it could also be related to younger fans having not seen Last Stand, and therefore do not realize this is the second pass at this story. Remember if you are less then 18 you are thinking Deadpool and Logan and have little relationship with the first 3 films.

This is most probably one of the contributors, as they have no familiarity with the film unless they are die-hard X-Men fans.

[mattn792]

1 hour ago, Bosco685 said:

Interesting on that across 18K users, IMDb is reflecting 6.0 versus trash-level bad that you would desire.

What is interesting is viewers 18 or younger rated this much stronger. I wonder if this is a Sophie Turner influence at play?

6.0 - Ds get Degrees.

[Broke as a Joke]

Unfortunately, Fox has butchered the main X-Men franchise and Disney would be smart to shelf it for 3-5 years so people can forget about crappola like Dark Phoenix and Apocalypse.  

Jackman as Wolverine was the glue holding these films together.

 

[Bosco685]

21 minutes ago, mattn792 said:

6.0 - Ds get Degrees.

[Jaydogrules]

Maybe, just maybe, with Shazam, *ahem*,  "underperforming", and Hellboy and Dark Phoenix outright flopping, we are at last witnessing the dreaded "superhero fatigue" wall.

Sure, some will say, "but Endgame". "But Captain Marvel". 

Yes those did beyond great.  But those were the last must see chapters in an 11 year story arc.

Let's see what the next solo MCU movie does.  How about that totally irrelevant and unnecessary Black Widow movie Feige is insisting on making as a parting gift/severance package to the overpaid and miscast ScarJo?  How's that going to do?

There's a solo Spidey flick on deck next.  Guess that will be the one that gives us a further preview of mainstream superhero box office life- post Endgame (though we are basically 0 for 3 so far).

-J.

[Gatsby77]

At a 2.5x first weekend multiplier, Scott Mendelson's now projecting ~$75 million domestic / <$300 million worldwide.

vs. its ~$200 million budget.

Day-um.

[Gatsby77]

Shazam was profitable.

World of difference between that one and this.

[Jaydogrules]

1 minute ago, Gatsby77 said:

Shazam was profitable.

World of difference between that one and this.

No it wasn't. Not even close. It lost *at least* $50MM theatrically.  

And with P&A, Dark Phoenix has an all in of probably about $350MM.  This will be a financial bloodbath. 

-J.

[Bosco685]

32 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Shazam was profitable.

World of difference between that one and this.

Forget it. He's rolling.