Can high-dollar "cover artist keys" maintain their value? 0

[SquareChaos]

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of these books inevitably end up absorbed into personal collections over time and the availability of them on the market starts drying up a little bit, and this can sustain some prices just by the supply dropping commensurate with the demand.

 

But, I might be totally wrong too.

 

+1. This is more along my though process as well. Books going into PCs and not being up for sale, do/can create a 'market thirst' when it does pop up for sale again after a long time. If it's another long wait until the next sale, the same could happen again, creating a new trend and market value. But with these collectibles, some of them can drop a bit if too many copies are readily available and seller(s) are looking to move on from the book for whatever reason.

 

So, I'm gonna say 'yes' to the OP's question because, so far they (mostly) have. The real question isn't 'can' they, but 'will' they.

 

 

Jerome

 

The variant craze is not that old. I know many think it is here to stay, but I think it'd be one of the first things to go if the market as a whole got into significant trouble again.

 

On another facet, I think these things being so relatively rare also hurts their long term prospects. I think to a certain extent people still desire what they see - never seeing one of these books at a con, in an LCS on a wall... only even knowing it exists because of a few eBay sightings every other year and forums like this one, I think that hurts a book in the true long term. But then again... the real high end of this market only needs a few people with deep pockets to be invested in it so maybe an infinite game of hot potato could happen :shrug:

 

I think some of the responses coming in now are misinterpreting the original question... it's not whether variants will retain their value, but whether books with covers by certain artists will retain their value. These are sometimes variants, but frequently are not.

 

Then I need some examples of which high-dollar "cover artist keys" we're talking about, maybe I'm not understanding OPs idea of high-dollar.

[drotto]

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of these books inevitably end up absorbed into personal collections over time and the availability of them on the market starts drying up a little bit, and this can sustain some prices just by the supply dropping commensurate with the demand.

 

But, I might be totally wrong too.

 

+1. This is more along my though process as well. Books going into PCs and not being up for sale, do/can create a 'market thirst' when it does pop up for sale again after a long time. If it's another long wait until the next sale, the same could happen again, creating a new trend and market value. But with these collectibles, some of them can drop a bit if too many copies are readily available and seller(s) are looking to move on from the book for whatever reason.

 

So, I'm gonna say 'yes' to the OP's question because, so far they (mostly) have. The real question isn't 'can' they, but 'will' they.

 

 

Jerome

 

The variant craze is not that old. I know many think it is here to stay, but I think it'd be one of the first things to go if the market as a whole got into significant trouble again.

 

On another facet, I think these things being so relatively rare also hurts their long term prospects. I think to a certain extent people still desire what they see - never seeing one of these books at a con, in an LCS on a wall... only even knowing it exists because of a few eBay sightings every other year and forums like this one, I think that hurts a book in the true long term. But then again... the real high end of this market only needs a few people with deep pockets to be invested in it so maybe an infinite game of hot potato could happen :shrug:

 

I think some of the responses coming in now are misinterpreting the original question... it's not whether variants will retain their value, but whether books with covers by certain artists will retain their value. These are sometimes variants, but frequently are not.

 

To certain artists holding value, yes. Every generation will have those coveted artists. But it is a small group that will only be kept for covers.

[Jaydogrules]

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of these books inevitably end up absorbed into personal collections over time and the availability of them on the market starts drying up a little bit, and this can sustain some prices just by the supply dropping commensurate with the demand.

 

But, I might be totally wrong too.

 

+1. This is more along my though process as well. Books going into PCs and not being up for sale, do/can create a 'market thirst' when it does pop up for sale again after a long time. If it's another long wait until the next sale, the same could happen again, creating a new trend and market value. But with these collectibles, some of them can drop a bit if too many copies are readily available and seller(s) are looking to move on from the book for whatever reason.

 

So, I'm gonna say 'yes' to the OP's question because, so far they (mostly) have. The real question isn't 'can' they, but 'will' they.

 

 

Jerome

 

The variant craze is not that old. I know many think it is here to stay, but I think it'd be one of the first things to go if the market as a whole got into significant trouble again.

 

On another facet, I think these things being so relatively rare also hurts their long term prospects. I think to a certain extent people still desire what they see - never seeing one of these books at a con, in an LCS on a wall... only even knowing it exists because of a few eBay sightings every other year and forums like this one, I think that hurts a book in the true long term. But then again... the real high end of this market only needs a few people with deep pockets to be invested in it so maybe an infinite game of hot potato could happen :shrug:

 

I think some of the responses coming in now are misinterpreting the original question... it's not whether variants will retain their value, but whether books with covers by certain artists will retain their value. These are sometimes variants, but frequently are not.

 

+1

 

I noticed that this thread quickly devolved into yet another "I hate variants and what they sell for" thread, in spite of your original question as well.

 

My answer to your actual question:

 

Some will, most will not, a few will transcend.

 

-J.

[SquareChaos]

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of these books inevitably end up absorbed into personal collections over time and the availability of them on the market starts drying up a little bit, and this can sustain some prices just by the supply dropping commensurate with the demand.

 

But, I might be totally wrong too.

 

+1. This is more along my though process as well. Books going into PCs and not being up for sale, do/can create a 'market thirst' when it does pop up for sale again after a long time. If it's another long wait until the next sale, the same could happen again, creating a new trend and market value. But with these collectibles, some of them can drop a bit if too many copies are readily available and seller(s) are looking to move on from the book for whatever reason.

 

So, I'm gonna say 'yes' to the OP's question because, so far they (mostly) have. The real question isn't 'can' they, but 'will' they.

 

 

Jerome

 

The variant craze is not that old. I know many think it is here to stay, but I think it'd be one of the first things to go if the market as a whole got into significant trouble again.

 

On another facet, I think these things being so relatively rare also hurts their long term prospects. I think to a certain extent people still desire what they see - never seeing one of these books at a con, in an LCS on a wall... only even knowing it exists because of a few eBay sightings every other year and forums like this one, I think that hurts a book in the true long term. But then again... the real high end of this market only needs a few people with deep pockets to be invested in it so maybe an infinite game of hot potato could happen :shrug:

 

I think some of the responses coming in now are misinterpreting the original question... it's not whether variants will retain their value, but whether books with covers by certain artists will retain their value. These are sometimes variants, but frequently are not.

 

+1

 

I noticed that this thread quickly devolved into yet another "I hate variants and what they sell for" thread, in spite of your original question as well.

 

My answer to your actual question:

 

Some will, most will not, a few will transcend.

 

-J.

 

Except... it didn't.

 

I don't know of any 'high-dollar' non variant, cover artist key moderns. The ones I do know about are the variants.

 

It shouldn't be surprising... except this crowd doesn't like my logic sometimes, and I'm OK with that.

[fastballspecial]

For better or worse they are here to stay until buyers quit buying them.

 

Long term its tough to say will artist like Hughes transcend a generation? We don't really have artists yet to give a comparison. Artists like Lee, Byrne, and Perez don't do books like Hughes or Campbell does so its a tough comparison.

 

I guess it just depends on the collector base and it continues to grow.

 

Edited January 25, 2017 by Fastballspecial

[SquareChaos]

It turns out that OP asked a super vague question, and since this forum has become so contentious on these sorts of topics, I'll leave the discussion to others until such a time as the question is better phrased.

[Reno McCoy]

Everyone is going to have a different thought on what high dollar is. I can dig that. I know there are a lot of people who think $150 is nothing to pay for a comic, but for me, for a modern, non-key, non-rare issue, anything over $40 is expensive. Keys based on storylines, sure, but cover art?

 

I think part of the concern is that if a series runs along and issues sell for $3 raw, but suddenly a cover artist does an issue and it's priced at $30+, can that non-key issue maintain that leap in price long term?

 

But let's look at some Hughes examples.I love Hughes. I've paid $150+ for non-key issues just for his cover. So I understand the urge to buy. But some of his prices compared to other issues with the same character are hard to compute.

 

Wonder Woman 184. Sold as best offer, but asking was $190. Even if it sold for $150, that seems high dollar for a comic that's not a key other than the cover. It sold for $200 in December.

 

Catwoman 51 sells for $250+ in graded 9.8. Sure, there's the argument that it's all about the Lost numbers, but c'mon, it's all about the cleavage on the cover. Catwoman isn't a big seller otherwise, so it's pretty evident this is a pricey book because of the art.

 

Catwoman 74. More cleavage. Sold for $200. No significant storyline or rarity that I can see.

 

Several other Hughes are up for sell now on eBay. Some with the asking price of $120. No storyline keys. Heck, no cleavage even. Sure, they won't sell for that, but still.

[the authority]

Everyone is going to have a different thought on what high dollar is. I can dig that. I know there are a lot of people who think $150 is nothing to pay for a comic, but for me, for a modern, non-key, non-rare issue, anything over $40 is expensive. Keys based on storylines, sure, but cover art?

 

I think part of the concern is that if a series runs along and issues sell for $3 raw, but suddenly a cover artist does an issue and it's priced at $30+, can that non-key issue maintain that leap in price long term?

 

But let's look at some Hughes examples.I love Hughes. I've paid $150+ for non-key issues just for his cover. So I understand the urge to buy. But some of his prices compared to other issues with the same character are hard to compute.

 

Wonder Woman 184. Sold as best offer, but asking was $190. Even if it sold for $150, that seems high dollar for a comic that's not a key other than the cover. It sold for $200 in December.

 

Catwoman 51 sells for $250+ in graded 9.8. Sure, there's the argument that it's all about the Lost numbers, but c'mon, it's all about the cleavage on the cover. Catwoman isn't a big seller otherwise, so it's pretty evident this is a pricey book because of the art.

 

Catwoman 74. More cleavage. Sold for $200. No significant storyline or rarity that I can see.

 

Several other Hughes are up for sell now on eBay. Some with the asking price of $120. No storyline keys. Heck, no cleavage even. Sure, they won't sell for that, but still.

 

The WW #184 went for $132.97. A lot for a regularly distributed issue imo.

Edited January 26, 2017 by The Authority

[AKA Rick]

I'm really surprised more ALEX ROSS covers aren't going for a lot more based on the artist by name, same with FRANK CHO, in the same vein as JSC and AH!

[SquareChaos]

Anything under $200 in this area of the hobby can still be considered in the realm of an impulse buy, I just don't find these type of books that interesting from a discussion standpoint. I like some of the covers.

 

Will they hold their value? Probably as long as the artist is en vogue.

[Gunnz]

I'm really surprised more ALEX ROSS covers aren't going for a lot more based on the artist by name, same with FRANK CHO, in the same vein as JSC and AH!

 

I'm seeing a trend where certain "superstar" artists are seeing a huge hike in secondary market resale. JSC, AH, Dell'otto. but there seems to be a focus on these few artists which i find confusing because although I like JSC and AH, I'm way more into Artgerm and Ebas, and Clayton Crain, and Francesco Mattina (Spiderman 2099), and elias chatzoudis.

 

I collect what I like and if its valuable, then YAY! if not, then I still have some art i love.

 

I do see these hot covers holding strong and honestly once the well dries up and these are in PC's, I think they'll at least hold their value.

[World Devourer]

I suppose a good litmus test will be if the person who purchased the ASM#667 for $9K (from an admittedly greedy type) can recoup their layout.

[Brock]

I suppose a good litmus test will be if the person who purchased the ASM#667 for $9K (from an admittedly greedy type) can recoup their layout.

 

This seems to be apples to the OP's oranges again...

[World Devourer]

I suppose a good litmus test will be if the person who purchased the ASM#667 for $9K (from an admittedly greedy type) can recoup their layout.

 

This seems to be apples to the OP's oranges again...

 

Well, it's the one way we'll know if these items are holding their value.

[Reno McCoy]

What other non-variant comics in the last 10 years sell in the $150 to $300 range? I don't really keep in touch with that sort of thing, but it might be interesting to compare similarly priced books.

[Lonzilla]

What other non-variant comics in the last 10 years sell in the $150 to $300 range? I don't really keep in touch with that sort of thing, but it might be interesting to compare similarly priced books.

WDs

[JTLarsen]

My feeling is a little more nuanced...

 

I think keys and storylines will still be the dominant drivers of market value, but I think the "cover artist bump" is also here to stay.

 

Partly, this is because the act of stabbing a book changes its nature (the medium is the message, and all that). While the book's content is still present within the slab, it cannot be accessed... this simple fact has the net effect of making the accessible portions of the book more important - things like wrap, cover gloss and (especially) cover art. Some deride this as a card collector mentality, but I think the physical nature of the medium is a better explanation.

 

At the same time, cover art was historically a driver of book value... if you go back to the early days of fandom in the 1960s and 1970s, there were a host of popular artists whose covers commanded premiums on the back issue market... guys like Schomburg, Frazetta, Baker, etc. This accelerated in the 1970s with popular artists like Adams, Wrightson, Steranko, etc. If you look at Overstreet, you'll see relics of this era with notations for cover art by many of these folks.

 

In the 1980s and 1990s, focus shifted to interior art (Byrne, Perez, then McFarlane, Lee et al) and the rise of writers (Moore, Gaiman).

 

In my mind, the rise of stabbing returned the hobby to an increased focus on cover art - but it did not create a new phenomenon, merely revived a dormant trend.

 

Having said that, I do think some current prices are out of whack, and reflect a bit of a Franklin Mint mentality - but hey, people can collect what they like.

 

I also think the trend does involve older and inactive artists... 1970s Neal Adams covers are hot, as are Schomburg covers, and there's some guys like Dave Stevens whose stuff is still very sought after...

 

If I may add/disagree a bit...interior art was the driver well before the '80s. I remember collecting Adams INTERIOR art first, because that's where the attention was. It was only later, when I was basically where I wanted to be on my Adams interior collection, that I broadened out to covers. Early Overstreets noted interior art more often than cover art.

 

Also, cover art has been driving value since early on. In Overstreet, they were broken out as "classic covers," which basically meant people liked them and that this affection sustained over time. So, I think what we'll see happen is that some current "cover" books will diminish in value simply as collector focus coalesces around a growing consensus of which new covers are "classic." I suspect Supergirl and the Legion 23 will go in there. Zatanna 15 and 16, too. Catwoman 51. But I think we'll see a "sorting," where some high prices being realized now don't hold up because no consensus builds around the speculation that those covers will stand the test of time. Others will continue to be stratospheric as the consensus DOES solidify around them. That's my guess, anyway.

[SquareChaos]

I suppose a good litmus test will be if the person who purchased the ASM#667 for $9K (from an admittedly greedy type) can recoup their layout.

 

This seems to be apples to the OP's oranges again...

 

Well, it's the one way we'll know if these items are holding their value.

It seems people only want to talk about relatively affordable books here, not high dollar ones.

 

So basically they want to know if Hughes non-variant non-members cover specific books will maintain value.

[JTLarsen]

Artists may be hot for the moment but the only thing that has lasting impact on value are the storylines and characters.

 

Suck it, Batman 227. And Neal Adams, generally. You, too, Frazetta. The very IDEA that visual artists might affect appreciation for a visual medium. NUTS, I tells ya.

[Hickok8AA8]

I say yes, the art and rarity of certain books is what got me into comics beyond a hobby level. A few obvious ones that came to mind for staying potential:

 

Detective Comics 880 (Jock)

Seven to Eternity 1A (Opena)

Saga 1 RRP (Staples)

Batman Superman 7 Virgin Euro (Dell'Otto)

ASM 667 (Dell'Otto)

ASM 678 (Quinones)

ASM 688 (JSC)

Wolverine 1 (JSC)

Walking Dead 1 (Adlard)

 

The real question should be about the ever increasing initial cost of these books and market over saturation. Also, store variants, I think some will stick but it's too early in that game to know what's what. Once the dust settles 1-2 years past release we'll get a better answer to this question.

The hit to miss ratio is really bad but, the answer should still be YES overall. However, I consider "big" money for modern, non key "cover" comics to be $100+, assuming initial cost was $2.99-$30 so this may not apply to OPs question directly.

 

 

The very IDEA that visual artists might affect appreciation for a visual medium. NUTS, I tells ya.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2017 by Hickok8AA8