Marvel finally realizing it's current universe isn't so hot... 0

[Mercury Man]

 

Good read.....

https://moviepilot.com/p/marvel-comics-legacy-heroes-politics-x-men/4204054

[fastballspecial]

Marvel is screwed for awhile till they relaunch. They have dug a huge hole that they will need to get out of.

[MadGenius]

If they do yet another relaunch with a ton of variant covers for each #1 they are just doing more of the same. Less is more in more ways than one. Less titles, less linewide crossovers, and - for the love of Pete - stop it with the ratio variants.

[SquareChaos]

Interesting... if the "Legacy Heroes" do take a back seat, maybe I won't have to read more about how X-23 is gonna be bigger than Jesus. Or maybe already is and I just don't know it yet 

[Kyle R.]

28 minutes ago, MadGenius said:

If they do yet another relaunch with a ton of variant covers for each #1 they are just doing more of the same. Less is more in more ways than one. Less titles, less linewide crossovers, and - for the love of Pete - stop it with the ratio variants.

Yup !! That is a good start.

Also, higher the best talent. Get A+ writers and artists.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Kyle R.

[MadGenius]

The current economics of the industry are such that Marvel can't really afford the true A+ talent, at least when it comes to writers. The BKVs and Ed Brubakers make more on their Image books than they ever could with Marvel.

[SquareChaos]

It's still possible to pull a big name with the lure of creative control.

 

Brubaker isn't going anywhere with his current Image deal though, I don't know that BKV has the current bandwidth. Hickman seems to like to spread himself thin though.

[starlord86]

This is just my opinion; Losing Brubaker, Fraction, Remender, Ellis, Hickman, Hitch, Millar, and Gillen did not help them. Aaron and Lemire are all that remains. Aaron is doing Star Wars, Doctor Strange, Unworthy Thor and Mighty Thor. (while still doing Southern Bastards and Goddamned). Lemire is doing Thanos, OML, & Moonknight. They are all pretty solid books. After that its a pretty big drop.

I'm curious to see where Marvel will go and how they will fix this mess that they got themselves in.  Perhaps have the Fantastic Four see all the damage that they have done and try to fix it while bringing them back. 2 birds with one stone.

[SquareChaos]

1 minute ago, starlord86 said:

This is just my opinion; Losing Brubaker, Fraction, Remender, Ellis, Hickman, Hitch, Millar, and Gillen did not help them. Aaron and Lemire are all that remains. Aaron is doing Star Wars, Doctor Strange, Unworthy Thor and Mighty Thor. (while still doing Southern Bastards and Goddamned). Lemire is doing Thanos, OML, & Moonknight. They are all pretty solid books. After that its a pretty big drop.

I'm curious to see where Marvel will go and how they will fix this mess that they got themselves in.  Perhaps have the Fantastic Four see all the damage that they have done and try to fix it while bringing them back. 2 birds with one stone.

Good points all - Brubaker is not back for sure. Hickman could be though right? He doesn't have an exclusive in the works as far as I know? Millar, I don't really see as a such a loss, but Gillen... yeah, maybe, but really it's Brubaker and Hickman that I think are the best talents out of that list when considering Marvel.

And I don't know that they can fix it. I think the article is awful rosy on DC personally. I'll believe either Big Two is writing character-first stories - not Intellectual Property-first stories - when they can go six to twelve months without a pointless universe wide cross over.

[Buzzetta]

It has gotten to the point that I basically pick up one title each month.  That title is ASM and I read it when there is absolutely nothing else to do.  I have the Marvel Unlimited account but have lost interest in following their recent story lines.

I actually like Slott's work on Spider-man, but I do not like the creative direction that the company has taken the Marvel Universe.  Reading Slott's Spider-man has been like watching Picasso paint a cathedral ceiling with one armed tied behind his back and confined to using a Crayola 8 - Pack because the cathedral owners don't have a clue as to what he could really do if given free reign.

 

Also... it's been ten years.  Bring back the Spider-Marriage and bury Gwen again and keep Uncle Ben dead. 

[Doktor]

Marvel had a period in the early 00's where they found a lot of up-and-coming writers from Image and Wildstorm that weren't really being given a legit shot at DC & said "here, go wild". That's what turned Brubaker into the guy that did Gotham Central with Rucka into Ed Brubaker. And he's not coming back. He's said repeatedly that he's done with Superhero comics.

Fraction isn't coming back anytime soon either. He's having too much fun writing a fictionalized version of he & Kelly Sue's sex life at Image.

Ellis is going to be busy running the Wildstorm re-launch at DC.

Hickman just really really wanted to go & do nothing even related to the Marvel universe for a while after essentially directing it for 3 years.

And Millar is busy taking Fox's money for coming up with a new comic & optioning it to them 6 months before the first issue even hits stands.  

So they need to go find & curate a new crop of young writers. And I stress writers & not just their buddies or people whose politics they agree with. 3 years ago, the most political thing anyone knew or cared about from Quesada or Bendis or Brevvort was that Quesada's dad died of cancer so he banned smoking by heroes in his comics. They might want to get back to us not knowing or caring what their philosophical bent was outside of "make good comics". (And yes, they can have a political bent without being ham-fisted schlock)

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Doktor

[Sam I am]

It's definitely time to review what created all these movies, and get back tot he basics.  Maybe even revert to legacy numbering?

[Doc McCoy]

Is it really that shocking given today's political climate that people would not want the same political ideology from either side of the isle shoved down their throats when reading comics?  Back in the 60's & 70's comics were a great medium for this, but in this day and age, where we're almost oversaturated with it between the 24hr news cycle and social media, I think most people that read comics would like to use them as an escape from real world issues. 

[Kyle R.]

38 minutes ago, Doc McCoy said:

Is it really that shocking given today's political climate that people would not want the same political ideology from either side of the isle shoved down their throats when reading comics?  Back in the 60's & 70's comics were a great medium for this, but in this day and age, where we're almost oversaturated with it between the 24hr news cycle and social media, I think most people that read comics would like to use them as an escape from real world issues. 

  Exactly !!

[SquareChaos]

I sort of agree on the political bent... but it's pretty difficult to write the complicated modern stories that most readers expect these days without involving politics on some level. I agree that no one wants to see Captain America Hail Hydra (except for Nick Spencer apparently), but at the same time I don't see a real appetite for going back to the super simple stories of yesteryear... and that often means a world stage, and large scale human interactions will be a central part of your story. Maybe it's better to say we don't want to be a captive audience while someone forces their personal views onto a beloved comic character... but maybe I'm only speaking for myself. I do find stories with realistic political dynamics interesting, but that's just my 

 

Also, +1 Marvel going out and actually discovering / grooming new writers. DC took a chance on Snyder - someone who really had no plans to go into comics, but he couldn't really find work writing elsewhere - and it has paid off in a big, bad way for them. 

[Doktor]

14 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

I sort of agree on the political bent... but it's pretty difficult to write the complicated modern stories that most readers expect these days without involving politics on some level. I agree that no one wants to see Captain America Hail Hydra (except for Nick Spencer apparently), but at the same time I don't see a real appetite for going back to the super simple stories of yesteryear... and that often means a world stage, and large scale human interactions will be a central part of your story. Maybe it's better to say we don't want to be a captive audience while someone forces their personal views onto a beloved comic character... but maybe I'm only speaking for myself. I do find stories with realistic political dynamics interesting, but that's just my 

 

Also, +1 Marvel going out and actually discovering / grooming new writers. DC took a chance on Snyder - someone who really had no plans to go into comics, but he couldn't really find work writing elsewhere - and it has paid off in a big, bad way for them. 

I think there's a line between having a political bent to the stories with analogous storylines that aren't bordering on a "ripped from the headlines" Law & Order SVU level ham-fisted brow beating of their politics. Basic morality lessons & more vague & subtle analogies to current events is one thing. Turning anyone that disagrees with the writers politics into a villain is just ham-fisted schlock.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Doktor

[Dutch74]

Actually, as for the super simple stories: even though I am now much older now, I still long for the days of IH 194-283, X-Men 94-167 and ASM up to 251. But maybe that says more about me than what Marvel should do.

[SquareChaos]

1 minute ago, Dutch74 said:

Actually, as for the super simple stories: even though I am now much older now, I still long for the days of IH 194-283, X-Men 94-167 and ASM up to 251. But maybe that says more about me than what Marvel should do.

I think any of us that have read these comics for a long time definitely have nostalgia and wouldn't mind a trip back to that sort of comic book world every now and then, but in general, the stories are much more mature and complex these days, and I think that is for the better most of the time.

[Doc McCoy]

30 minutes ago, Doktor said:

I think there's a line between having a political bent to the stories with analogous storylines that aren't bordering on a "ripped from the headlines" Law & Order SVU level ham-fisted brow beating of their politics. Basic morality lessons & more vague & subtle analogies to current events is one thing. Turning anyone that disagrees with the writers politics into a villain is just ham-fisted schlock.

+1

 

You can delve into more complicated stories that bring to light world issues, as you were saying @SquareChaos, but doing them in a broader manner, while still bringing the super heroic excapisim is possible.  Rebirth and DC have accomplished this.  No reason Marvel shouldn't be able to do the same and I'd cite Aaron's Thor run as a perfect example of them doing so.

[SquareChaos]

1 minute ago, Doc McCoy said:

+1

 

You can delve into more complicated stories that bring to light world issues, as you were saying @SquareChaos, but doing them in a broader manner, while still bringing the super heroic excapisim is possible.  Rebirth and DC have accomplished this.  No reason Marvel shouldn't be able to do the same and I'd cite Aaron's Thor run as a perfect example of them doing so.

Yeah, I completely agree, sounds like we in this thread are at least on the same page