hapicamp Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Hello, novice here, I appreciate your feedback on my book. Question: would you advise pursuing Stan Lee's signature for value bump? I'm a purist and prefer the/an unsigned cover, but if this book were to be sold is a signature, potentially on the new style CGC SS upper/info portion of the slab for example advisable, opinions and insight appreciated. Opinions on pressing appreciated, again purist here, I know very little about other than it's not currently considered resto, but is it also in any way thought of as 'a line crossed' re untouched-up, as seems would be the case to this novice. Re the pictured book. FCRE/URFC 'staining' is sunlight exposure to edge, poor shelf storage, stacked. TopFC edge 'turning'(?) looks exaggerated in photo imo. LEBC and LLBC (2) tears are as appear (present but clean(?)). Book is complete and somewhat brittle, mostly at spine as a result of being in an hot/cold attic, either on a shelf or in a box for the last 43 years. No tape, pressing, trim, or any resto, I'm the books second owner. History/back stroy - I collected as a child actively, approx 1971-79, age 7-15. Peter Parker was my guy but I have a good number of titles. I'm currently cataloging my collection for the first time, approx 800 comics. I acquired AF # 15 in a box of comics I bought from a friend of the family/grad student who originally bought all it's contents new, from the rack. He knew I liked Spider Man. He knew AF # 15 was desirable, even in 1974-6 (can't remember exact yr I bought the box), so he asked for what I thought was a lot of money from one so young, $100 for the box. I had some saved allowances and some money from my Grand Parents, I bought the box. Again, thought it was allot at the time, but my father knew the solution. Sell something I didn't care about as much from the box, recoup investment. I sold Journey Into Mystery # 83 (prob a 5.0-6.0 grade) for $100, probably market at the time (the store I sold it to listed it for either $200 or $300 I believe). I kept and still have everything else from the box, multi Spidy, X-Men, DD, FF (including #48,49,50), each of those titles and many more with runs in the single and low double digit issue numbers. Likely the best return, if I sell, investment I'll ever have. Most so right now I'm enjoying these books for the first time in 40'ish years, Silver Age art with (surprising to me) bright cover color, nice window to a time past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelpk Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Holy..... That looks beautiful. A press would probably bump it by 0.5 but to be honest for that book that's worth it. I personally would get it signed but only if you want to. Not for value, but for Stan. Great copy and best of luck whichever way you decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelpk Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Sorry forgot to grade. I'd say a 6.5 maybe that's being too optimistic, but I feel it could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoMan Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I think you are in the 4.5 - 5.0 territory. Re Stan Lee signature for value bump: For this book I would do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Knight Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 5.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hapicamp Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 Thank you all for the reply. I'm going to call CGC to get the lay of the land on a few topics, one being Sarasota walkthru grading in comparison to their grading at a convention. One point within that i'm very curious about is I read (I'll try and find reference again, don't know if it was here/CGC or GPAnalysis) that the new Encapsulation/capsule in the Signature Series was designed with less print on the front side, moving much of it to the back. Loosely I remember reading that was done to accommodate signing the capsule ( i.e. upper front) . If that change has been made for that reason CGC obviously has logistics involved in accommodating new order of encapsulating SS, and are taking on extra steps. I will report/post what I learn from CGC re these if people are interested. I would also appreciate any insight from those who have had convention on-site grading, positive experience? Not my residence state but the convention in Buffalo NY mid May is the next regionally close option i see. Insight there or anywhere re on-site grading very appreciated. Good day to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Zipper Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Given the brittleness described by the OP and decent sized tears on the back cover, I think some of the aforementioned grades are a bit high. I'm thinking 3.5/4.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foley Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 4.0-4.5 and please don't have Stan ruin it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot6 Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 4.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicquant Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I'm at a 4.5 as well due to the tears to the back cover. I would not have anyone write anything on this book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighStakesComics Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 A nice 3.5 that would likely smush to a 4.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glassman10 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 As near as I can see based in GPanalysis, the signature won't really increase value. If it had everyone's signature, it seems it does increase it but not significantly. I've been told the fee for signature is $100 dollars to Mr Lee. I wouldn't deface it myself and I own one in a bit better condition than this one. One chip, some micro checks in the ink, no tears and a really good interior A press would make yours look better. If you are going for grading, the fee is based in value not degree of difficulty. 3% of the retail value is the number I hear up to 3K. Expect to spend more money than you really want to. Then, get yourself a copy of the marvel tales with the origin story since you won't read this one again. 4.0 at best based on my recent intimacy with this particular book. The tears really take it down. The staples are a distinct source of small tears and the lower front is quite abraded and chipped most of the way across and particularly at the spine. The cover centering is hard to read and when you look at the window of the building where the man is standing on the right, most copies show a number of windows, This barely shows one. Given that it cost .12 cents, I'm not sure we don't make the expectations pretty unreasonable but the whole thing is just monetizing it now. I like to read them. Still a nice thing to own. I'm not at all sure where the value on AF is really going. Marvel can only make so many movies about Peter Parker.It certainly has gone through the roof since 2012. I too have a very thorough Journey into mystery and that $100.00 for #83 makes me cringe. I currently have ASM 16 out of pressing and over to grading for which we think we have a shot at a 9.6. One like that has not surfaced in some time. I really hate selling it all, but it's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hapicamp Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) Thank you all for reply’s, each was a help. I didn’t mean to disappear, doing my tax’s and Valentines occupied this week. Re Signature, I get both options, definitely no signature on cover of this one, space is precious. That’s my dry humor segue to the ‘building window’ observation, thank you Glassman10 for your keen eye and multi points reply, certainly peaked my interest, gave me a startle, beget some questions. I’m very interested in boards/threads insights, is it a known thing for Silver Age FC to be printer-cut at varying widths (possibly influenced by staple placement)? Is cover width a ‘range’ measurement accepted to X degree (for untrimmed books)? To begin answering I Googled ‘size silver age comics’, I saw range of 7 ¼ to 6 7/8 wide by 10 1/14 tall. I measured my above scanned AF # 15 and a Tales of Suspense #63 1965. ToS # 63 was 6 ¾ - 10 ¼ . For AF # 15 I used FCLE vertical black line as LE measure start, no spine or color beyond that line included in measurement. My FCB(ottom)RE is 1/32 short of 6 ¾” wide, FCTRE is same. Top to bottom measurement is (approx.) 1/32 less than 10 ¼, carefully using a tape measure. Next, to see examples and/or consistency of FC I went to https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/315296-the-amazing-fantasy-15-club/?page=101 . Just short of half way down page, Spiderturtle January 30 posts a set of 3 books, all CGC 7.0. They all have staples on front cover (like mine) and slightly different RE. The swooped right bottom edge of upper brown background color and the bottom three right side building’s windows and ‘horizontal’ floor divider are each slightly different. A current listing on ebay was very interesting to compare to above. Ebay FCRE extends a good bit (relatively) beyond all 3 above books http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMAZING-FANTASY-15-CGC-4-0-0273279001-1st-Spider-Man-/401198711167?hash=item5d694e817f:g:WiMAAOSw8w1X78ee What I wonder from linked examples and from measurements of my two books referenced is if a book is definitely deemed a printing cut, am I seeing correctly what looks like a ‘pass’ or acceptability regarding FCRE end point, in terms of grading impact? Not addressing appeal, but from an industry understanding/accepted grading parameter. Asking insight drawing from anyone’s experience with cover width variances in books they’ve had graded ? Long post, will try and shorten up the next post, though it would be a bit of a miracle if I actually did/could Thank you for any and all insight! Edited February 17, 2017 by hapicamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glassman10 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I think that occasionally it's worth remembering that these things sold for .12 cents, at a profit after shipping them all over creation. Your observations are really good but will also make you crazy. I have a number of FF4 copies in triplicate and they were all bought off the newstand racks fifty years back and each one is different than the other. They seem to pretty much have consistency within the print run as to page width but then the positioning of the staples come into play. Each one is different and not by a small amount. There's up to 3/16th inch difference in how it went together. That, long term can have an enormous affect on how well your book holds up to time. If the cover is hanging off the right hand side of the inner material, you can expect some serious deterioration of the cover and subsequent value loss. Much of the time actual cover centering is what keeps a cover in decent shape over the years. Staple centering also has a lot to do with the center fold holding together at all as well. These were simply not concerns of a 19 year old kid buying comics. I never looked at the dozen or so in the rack that were the best and in retrospect, I should have, but keep in mind- .12 cents. Who'd have ever thought AF15 could bring $450K if it was perfect. To throw you off even more, I have books I bought, again off the rack and they look like they were trimmed, really badly. The Comics code authority label is almost cut into in one book I ran by last week. If I put it up here, the response would be immediate that it was trimmed. It wasn't. Your book has light but classic Marvel Chipping which was a systemic flaw in production. For some, the claim is that chipping of that nature doesn't devalue a book because t was a production flaw. Then, you have to of course ask "Well what about all those copies that don't have chipping? My biggest concern with your book is the lower front cover, all the way across to te spine and it's hard in the photo to tell if the cover is high centered or abraded. We're now up to whistling by the graveyard. If your book is perfect, It's going to do really well at auction. If it's yet another well loved and cared for copy, not as well, but it sure is more than your mom ever thought of it. Looks like a nice book to me. In grading I suspect, but don't know, is whether there have been attempts to alter the book's presentation in any way that did not stick to the absolute original presentation. Trimming is a big issue on that or, adding color. Essentially, the owner is trying to hide a defect of some sort. Restoration is in the same boat and keep in mind these issues are true with any collectable out there be it a comic or a car. Original is important if you're monetizing. What I do know is that restored books don't bring good auction prices to people who know what they're looking at. I have no problems with cleaning or pressing. Pricey though on a good book. Now that comics have been effectively monetized, all collectors are looking for a perfection which was not easy to find in the first place. My MGB is like that. It had dents on the showroom floor. I think it will tend to wreck any hopes of seeing modern day books develop as "rare" Our mom's took car of a lot of the rarity issues in the interests of house keeping in 1964 but now, those people are banking on this as retirement cash. Better to just buy them cuz you love them. My .02 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber-Bob Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I'm sorry but everyone seems to be ignoring how brown and brittle looking this book is. I would not get it pressed. There was an incident a year or so ago where a brittle AF15 was pressed and caused significant damage. As mentioned a press would probably only bump it up a .5 at most, not worth the risk. I suspect a lot of those chips would fall off. I would put this book in an oversized bag and board and ship to CGC as is. BTW, to the OP, CGC only does onsite grading at a select few sites during the year. Probably not at a Buffalo area show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hapicamp Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 Thank you for replies. My wife and I are going away for the weekend, back Monday eve, I look forward to picking up again then. Stealing a minute now, yes I have real concern re pressing, corners, spine, spine at staples are delicate. CCS website says they decline if they think it's not a candidate, I'm leaning toward that being the case but am going with speak to them. Re cover, I do chalk it up to variable of printing/printer at the time/era. Will elaborate later. OT - Glassman10, I had a '74 MGB, British Racing Green, loved the feel from the seat of that car! Thanks again both for perspective, I really appreciate it, true help to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber-Bob Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Regarding the press, be careful. There was an incident where the submitter of an AF15 sent the book in for pressing but it was not screened for potential damage. It had something to do with the type of service. Apparently, after pressing, the staples popped. This was a comment from Matt Nelson of CCS..... Hi All. This book was submitted through CCS. I called Dave, left a voicemail, and also emailed him as of Thursday, so I'm not sure why he made this post only two days ago. The book was not screened before pressing. It was also not previously CGC graded, so there was no definitive way to tell when or how the staples popped. I do check all books before they leave here, but at that point, I would not be able to tell how the cover came loose. The book has a good bit of damage besides the detached staples, so I'm not really sure what effect this had on the grade. This is a good time to reiterate, please PLEASE be cautious about submitting tanned or fragile books, especially if they have weak spines. If you have any doubt, utilize the screening service. Otherwise, it's going to get pressed. There are many times I will reject books during the process, but only if I catch them. And even then there are books that split or pop without warning (like those '60s DC books that have notorious staple pops for no reason). Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glassman10 Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Matt, are you willing to describe the process of evaluating a book submitted for pressing. If you could, describe the red flags. I will be sending down an AF15 in the not to distant future which is a bit better than the one shown in this thread. It seems to me, you are suggesting that a screening process is necessary prior to pressing it. The amount if information as well as disinformation on the subject abounds. To be cautious about submissions, one needs education. When I look at grades on this particular book, I have to honestly say that the grade seems all over the map in a process where every half point changes the monetary results. While 9/2-m 9.6 is touchy, the area I really continue to have issues with is from 5.0 to 6.5 particularly in the fifty year old books. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mio Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 On 13/02/2017 at 8:55 PM, Foley said: 4.0-4.5 and please don't have Stan ruin it Please follow this advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 4.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
