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Jon Berk collection to be auctioned.
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3,495 posts in this topic

55 minutes ago, AllStar-Comics said:

I think for sure a lot of the more common stuff has to be near its peak.  All this signature series stuff, last months hot book, common comics slabbed to get 9.8's.  Lot of the bronze and 1980's stuff  Heck probably even a lot of silver age keys especially the low to mid grade stuff.  Amazing fantasy 15 in vg for $25K?  Yes the stuff that there are hundreds to tens of thousands of copies , they would get crushed if the current boom slows down.  Speculators sell out and flee soon as there is even a dip.  Back in the early 1990's everybody was convinced sports cards was like printing money.  That didnt last.  A lot of people who collect now are noobs who will get pissed and leave in a hurry if there is a even a little dip.  You saw it in droves when the bottom fell out of new comics back in the early to mid 1990's.

 

I wouldn't be concerned with the better Golden Age books as much.  What would concern me is those that collect genres where there is no new blood coming in.  No offense to anyone who collects pre hero DC, centaurs etc but where will new interest come from?  The characters that are still around I get a very small percentage of collectors will trickle into collecting early appearance of their favorites.  The cool covers will do well.  Sexy chicks, macabre horror covers, WWII books with blatant violence.  You might have enough selling points to get a 30-40 year old with some disposable money to sway them to buy some older stuff .

When things are bad its hard to see good times ahead  Likewise when things are good maybe too good its never going to end, or is it?

There are young collectors today who like old obscure stuff just because they love comics and it is cool to see what they were like back in the day.   How hard is it to get them to think it's cool that a hero is smacking Hitler in the face on a book published when Hitler was still living and the outcome was not known?   Not hard at all.  Or a quintessential 1950s scifi horror cover, with zombies, decapitations and robots kidnapping girls with big headlights?   Are there sub-genre areas which are as yet undervalued?   I think so.   My kids and their friends, all in early 20s, think the "superman is d--k" covers from the 1960s are hilarious.   Looking at them today you have to wonder why so many of DCs covers in the 1960s depicted the heroes betraying one another and laughing as their friends begged for mercy.    And then there's the "hippie" protest era, which to a young fan seems as distant -- and as distinct -- as WW2.  Marvel started with "relevant" covers about protesters and issues and then DC took it over the top with covers that were just insane.  Yet, those issues have not really broken out all that much, the way that war covers have.   There are other areas where I feel the examples are also undervalued.   Though I'd agree with you that there are also many things which I would consider over-valued.   But what do I know?   I sold all my backup AF 15s years ago thinking that the supply would have to impact the demand a bit.   It didn't

Edited by bluechip
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5 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Yeah, given the long lead time, it certainly dominated our little GA world for quite a while.

I ended up winning 51 lots -- some were buttons and other krap, but most were comics.  All the comics were GA.  By far the most books I've ever picked up in one go ... and by far the most money I've ever spent in one auction.

Looking back over my wins, several were for crazy stupid money however you look at it (but only one bid increment above the crazy stupid people I was bidding against! :)), but I don't regret any of them.  My main regrets go the other way -- dropped out too early on several books I should have hung in there on.

My comic buying budget for the year is shot to hell and gone, but I'm one happy funny book collector right now. 

 

OK Mr. Shot To Hell and Gone, how about a couple spoilers for those of us with nothing better to do than continue posting in this thread! Not all 51, and no buttons, just a few choice "eggs from Sqeggs"! :wishluck:

Perhaps he should start a thread with that title... hm

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1 hour ago, Zolnerowich said:
7 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Yeah, given the long lead time, it certainly dominated our little GA world for quite a while.

I ended up winning 51 lots -- some were buttons and other krap, but most were comics.  All the comics were GA.  By far the most books I've ever picked up in one go ... and by far the most money I've ever spent in one auction.

Looking back over my wins, several were for crazy stupid money however you look at it (but only one bid increment above the crazy stupid people I was bidding against! :)), but I don't regret any of them.  My main regrets go the other way -- dropped out too early on several books I should have hung in there on.

My comic buying budget for the year is shot to hell and gone, but I'm one happy funny book collector right now. 

 

OK Mr. Shot To Hell and Gone, how about a couple spoilers for those of us with nothing better to do than continue posting in this thread! Not all 51, and no buttons, just a few choice "eggs from Sqeggs"! :wishluck:

Perhaps he should start a thread with that title... hm

Modesty forbids! :shy:

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1 hour ago, bluechip said:

There are young collectors today who like old obscure stuff just because they love comics and it is cool to see what they were like back in the day.   How hard is it to get them to think it's cool that a hero is smacking Hitler in the face on a book published when Hitler was still living and the outcome was not known?   Not hard at all.  Or a quintessential 1950s scifi horror cover, with zombies, decapitations and robots kidnapping girls with big headlights?   Are there sub-genre areas which are as yet undervalued?   I think so.   My kids and their friends, all in early 20s, think the "superman is d--k" covers from the 1960s are hilarious.   Looking at them today you have to wonder why so many of DCs covers in the 1960s depicted the heroes betraying one another and laughing as their friends begged for mercy.    And then there's the "hippie" protest era, which to a young fan seems as distant -- and as distinct -- as WW2.  Marvel started with "relevant" covers about protesters and issues and then DC took it over the top with covers that were just insane.  Yet, those issues have not really broken out all that much, the way that war covers have.   There are other areas where I feel the examples are also undervalued.   Though I'd agree with you that there are also many things which I would consider over-valued.   But what do I know?   I sold all my backup AF 15s years ago thinking that the supply would have to impact the demand a bit.   It didn't

I'm a lot older than your kids, and I've always found SA superdickery hilarious. 

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1 hour ago, Flex Mentallo said:
1 hour ago, Flex Mentallo said:

The weather was clement, and the light was prime.

Or in his case, sub-prime

Wait a second, quoting yourself to set up a joke is ... well ... it's, it's frankly the sort of thing that doomed the Empire! O.o

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anyone else have a post Super Bowl come-down/hangover moment after this Berk auction closed?  I have a bunch of tracking bids in the clink auction right now I almost totally forgot about and I'm not pumped up to bid like normal.

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7 minutes ago, atomised said:

anyone else have a post Super Bowl come-down/hangover moment after this Berk auction closed?  I have a bunch of tracking bids in the clink auction right now I almost totally forgot about and I'm not pumped up to bid like normal.

Maybe some bargains will slip through!  Nah! :)

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1 hour ago, atomised said:

anyone else have a post Super Bowl come-down/hangover moment after this Berk auction closed?  I have a bunch of tracking bids in the clink auction right now I almost totally forgot about and I'm not pumped up to bid like normal.

The hangover starts after the books get cracked.

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6 hours ago, bluechip said:

Clearly you've thought this out and there is much to agree with.   But I would not lump all comics together and would say we might be near top or even further with some books, but I'd say that some books and even categories are still quite undervalued, while others remain hard to value and fluctuate.   One thing to consider is that as big as this auction was (7 million I heard?)  that number would not impress in the fine art world or even the fad-of-the-day modern art world.   In fact the total of all the big comic auctions in a given year doesn't yet equal the sort of numbers we see for individual pieces of art.     And another thing to consider is that the comics films not only continue to be huge worldwide but we are still seeing big grosses for examples of questionable quality.   Some smart people have predicted that comics-related entertainment would see an arc up -- and down -- that is similar to what we saw with Westerns.   I would argue that comics-related entertainment has more diversity of tone and style.   But, even if I agree for sake of argument, if comics-related entertainment follows the path of the Western it will be one of the biggest forces in film and other media for about 70 years.   

the results speak for themselves, CC thought  3 mil and JB got 7mil...perfect timing, selling just before the crest of the wave in overall prices...

Edited by Mmehdy
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1 hour ago, Mmehdy said:

the results speak for themselves, CC thought  3 mil and JB got 7mil...perfect timing, selling just before the crest of the wave in overall prices...

On Fox Business, Zurzulo upped their pre-auction estimate to 4-5M, and you know auction houses always low ball their estimates. What consigner wants to hear that an auction came up short.

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14 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Not to get back into this ancient debate, but I don't think Overstreet -- or any price guide -- is supposed to be answering the question:  "What would a high-grade pedigree copy of this book sell for in an open auction?"  After all, the OSPG doesn't even list books above 9.2 and makes no distinction between ped v. non-ped copies.

I've found OSPG to usually be in the ballpark for GA books in more normal circumstances -- say, for mid-grade copies offered in a regular Heritage signature auction. It can be way off on books that have suddenly heated up. But sometimes, "suddenly heated up" means that three or four people have suddenly started collecting those books and pushed up their prices.  Again, I'm not sure price guides are necessarily intended to reflect price run ups of that sort.

When it comes to esoteric books, even in moderate grade much less a high grade with a pedigree moniker to boot, why would the Overstreet Guide be of any value in terms of what the market is going to bring on books like that?  If you are actively going after book like that, then you are paying what it is worth to you, and therefore anyone bidding against you.  You are setting the new market price for the book.  The Overstreet guide is in the rear view mirror only keeping up with what market conditions have dictated, and it will be dated information by the time you want to use it as a reference.  Prices realized at recent auctions like this one and Heritage are a much better gauge of what people are willing to pay.  

The prices I paid for the few books I won are no where near the OSPG, but I thought they were a fair and reasonable price compared to what I saw similar graded books going for.  I went a little above and beyond for one book, but by-god I was going to come away from this auction with a Larson/Berk book.  The auction was unique in a way that no other can be.  I always enjoyed Jon's comic articles that were always focused on the creativity and the history of what has become an iconic medium in American folklore.  These craftsmen of their time were likely just making a living for themselves and their families, but it is obvious that some of them excelled at their craft and were doing what they loved to do.  And that is what I think we all have a fond appreciation of today.  The artwork and the art of story telling.  Jon recognized that and his collection reflected that.  He tried to have an example of every book, awesome or less than awesome.

One very refreshing thing I have read from many people that this auction may have finally broken the stigma on restored books.  For me, not great news.  But for the hobby in general I think healthy.  You see for me, I have never been a ardent collector of the grade as the books I was always interested in were just so hard to find.  So when one came along that I had on my list I generally bought it.  Consequently I have some beautiful books, and then some dog eared tattered and well loved specimens.  I also have a short stack of books that, when I look at them I ask myself, why did I buy that?  I'm sure all of you have a short stack like that as well.

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15 minutes ago, Et-Es-Go said:

When it comes to esoteric books, even in moderate grade much less a high grade with a pedigree moniker to boot, why would the Overstreet Guide be of any value in terms of what the market is going to bring on books like that?  If you are actively going after book like that, then you are paying what it is worth to you, and therefore anyone bidding against you.  You are setting the new market price for the book.  The Overstreet guide is in the rear view mirror only keeping up with what market conditions have dictated, and it will be dated information by the time you want to use it as a reference.  Prices realized at recent auctions like this one and Heritage are a much better gauge of what people are willing to pay.  

The prices I paid for the few books I won are no where near the OSPG, but I thought they were a fair and reasonable price compared to what I saw similar graded books going for.  I went a little above and beyond for one book, but by-god I was going to come away from this auction with a Larson/Berk book.  The auction was unique in a way that no other can be.  I always enjoyed Jon's comic articles that were always focused on the creativity and the history of what has become an iconic medium in American folklore.  These craftsmen of their time were likely just making a living for themselves and their families, but it is obvious that some of them excelled at their craft and were doing what they loved to do.  And that is what I think we all have a fond appreciation of today.  The artwork and the art of story telling.  Jon recognized that and his collection reflected that.  He tried to have an example of every book, awesome or less than awesome.

One very refreshing thing I have read from many people that this auction may have finally broken the stigma on restored books.  For me, not great news.  But for the hobby in general I think healthy.  You see for me, I have never been a ardent collector of the grade as the books I was always interested in were just so hard to find.  So when one came along that I had on my list I generally bought it.  Consequently I have some beautiful books, and then some dog eared tattered and well loved specimens.  I also have a short stack of books that, when I look at them I ask myself, why did I buy that?  I'm sure all of you have a short stack like that as well.

the stigma of restored books will not be felt until prices downturn..then those books will be the most price effected if the market demand lowers due to a price correction. The less buyers, the more picky the remaining ones are. Be safe...Be blue

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3 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

the stigma of restored books will not be felt until prices downturn..then those books will be the most price effected if the market demand lowers due to a price correction. The less buyers, the more picky the remaining ones are. Be safe...Be blue

Safe words if you are "investing" in the books.  If it is just disposable income and a enjoyable hobby as it is for me, then Purple is sometimes my Huckleberry!  I don't have anything against a nice un-restored golden age book, but I don't have a disdain for those that have had a make over either.  

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40 minutes ago, Et-Es-Go said:

Safe words if you are "investing" in the books.  If it is just disposable income and a enjoyable hobby as it is for me, then Purple is sometimes my Huckleberry!  I don't have anything against a nice un-restored golden age book, but I don't have a disdain for those that have had a make over either.  

 At prices like these, it seems everything is an investment. Note carefully  how Vinne of CC describes the cgc effect on the comic book market, turning it into investment widgets on that video above. I would be more impressed with a "raw purchase" of books such that you can feel and read them...I think just about all widgets..restored or or unrestored in the CGC case qualify as investments....you can read them, touch them..etc..and you are buying not just the case...but now as the market as turned and vinne says "3d party grading to protect your nontraditional investment"....

Edited by Mmehdy
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3 hours ago, rjpb said:

and you know auction houses always low ball their estimates. What consignor wants to hear that an auction came up short.

^^

Edited by Gotham Kid
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13 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

 At prices like these, it seems everything is an investment. Note carefully  how Vinne of CC describes the cgc effect on the comic book market, turning it into investment widgets on that video above. I would be more impressed with a "raw purchase" of books such that you can feel and read them...I think just about all widgets..restored or or unrestored in the CGC case qualify as investments....you can read them, touch them..etc..and you are buying not just the case...but now as the market as turned and vinne says "3d party grading to protect your nontraditional investment"....

Vinnie is talking to his audience.

Who watches the Fox business channel? Investment conscious viewers.  3rd party grading and restoration checks reassure non-comic people.   If he can persuade a few to contemplate investing in comics he makes more money.

He already has the attention of the comic crowd.

 

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