Joshua Middleton Nyx #3 Cover...Next HA Auction 2 2

[SquareChaos]

My initial instinct when I heard about it, pulled totally out of thin air, was <= $15k.

$60k seems crazy to me from any angle I care to consider it from. Maybe if this work had been done by a more prominent or important artist or if it had taken place during some revered run on a highly regarded title... but I don't see any of those things here.

[rotembk]

Maybe Dafne Keen is looking to invest some money in OA? Could be Hugh Jackman gave her some tips based on his own experience.

[chico_suave_58]

I agree with the <= 15k sentiment...it's a great cover, but $60k seems a bit rich to me. However, anything can happen if two motivated bidders go at it.

[SquareChaos]

For reference.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/joshua-middleton-nyx-3-cover-and-concept-art-x-23-original-art-marvel-2004-total-5-/p/7163-27001.s

 

[Matches_Malone]

The right arm is sort of distracting

[delekkerste]

11 hours ago, chico_suave_58 said:

I agree with the <= 15k sentiment...it's a great cover, but $60k seems a bit rich to me. However, anything can happen if two motivated bidders go at it.

If this cover hits anywhere near $60K, I'm turning in my resignation from the hobby the next day.* 

If "tfish" won't pay $60K for this, no one will.  Not that I thought for a second that he would contemplate paying that kind of price for it.

Also, count me among those who considers NYX #4 to be the better/definitive X-23 image.

 

 

 

* However, I reserve the right to un-retire like Michael Phelps once I get over the initial shock and loathing! 

 

 

[Twanj]

yeh, I don't get it. I never read this, but not feeling it on an image only level.

[NinjaSealed]

Well, I may end up looking like the village insufficiently_thoughtful_person but I still so no way in hell it sells for only 15k. $60k is my upper range bidding war number if a couple people really want it, but I would be shocked at anything less than $35k-40k.

I'm curious why everyone thinks it goes for ~$15k? Is it the artist? The fact that it is newer art and is kind of unfinished compared to the published cover? The fact that it is only a little over 10 years old? Technically not a first appearance since she was a cartoon character first?

[SquareChaos]

27 minutes ago, NinjaSealed said:

Well, I may end up looking like the village insufficiently_thoughtful_person but I still so no way in hell it sells for only 15k. $60k is my upper range bidding war number if a couple people really want it, but I would be shocked at anything less than $35k-40k.

I'm curious why everyone thinks it goes for ~$15k? Is it the artist? The fact that it is newer art and is kind of unfinished compared to the published cover? The fact that it is only a little over 10 years old? Technically not a first appearance since she was a cartoon character first?

I guess I'd turn it around and ask why you think it'll pull in $35k - $60k, especially after your list of pretty good reasons why it might not at the end of your post.

Edited March 10, 2017 by SquareChaos

[John E.]

20 minutes ago, NinjaSealed said:

Well, I may end up looking like the village insufficiently_thoughtful_person but I still so no way in hell it sells for only 15k. $60k is my upper range bidding war number if a couple people really want it, but I would be shocked at anything less than $35k-40k.

I'm curious why everyone thinks it goes for ~$15k? Is it the artist? The fact that it is newer art and is kind of unfinished compared to the published cover? The fact that it is only a little over 10 years old? Technically not a first appearance since she was a cartoon character first?

Yes, Yes, Yes, and No.

The most important thing going for it is that it's a first appearance of one of the most popular characters created in the Modern Age. The original piece actually looks better than I thought (more on this later). But what it really comes down to, it's a pencil piece. There are a lot of collectors, myself included, who stay away from pencil pieces. If it was inked, then that's something else. And let's not talk about the lack of trade dress, though in recent conversations about modern art, modern art collectors aren't deterred by the lack of  it, so this might be a moot point. I am not a contender for this art, but if I was, there would be a point where I'd say, "Am I really going to pay $30K for a pencil piece? Am I buying this just to have it?" Furthermore, like @Matches_Malone points out, that right arm of hers is distracting. That has to be taken into account.

But, listen, my qualifier is that there are a lot of deep pockets out there. And if two "Hollywood" people want it, then it blows all reasoning out of the water. And apparently to some people, spending $30K on a piece of art is like me paying $30 for an action figure.

my initial prediction at the start of the thread was $9,200. If It doesn't break $20K, I'd say $18,700. If it does break $20K, I think $22,500.

 

[SquareChaos]

3 minutes ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

Yes, Yes, Yes, and No.

The most important thing going for it is that it's a first appearance of one of the most popular characters created in the Modern Age. The original piece actually looks better than I thought (more on this later). But what it really comes down to, it's a pencil piece. There are a lot of collectors, myself included, who stay away from pencil pieces. If it was inked, then that's something else. And let's not talk about the lack of trade dress, though in recent conversations about modern art, modern art collectors aren't deterred by the lack of  it, so this might be a moot point. I am not a contender for this art, but if I was, there would be a point where I'd say, "Am I really going to pay $30K for a pencil piece? Am I buying this just to have it?" Furthermore, like @Matches_Malone points out, that right arm of hers is distracting. That has to be taken into account.

But, listen, my qualifier is that there are a lot of deep pockets out there. And if two "Hollywood" people want it, then it blows all reasoning out of the water. And apparently to some people, spending $30K on a piece of art is like me paying $30 for an action figure.

my initial prediction at the start of the thread was $9,200. If It doesn't break $20K, I'd say $18,700. If it does break $20K, I think $22,500.

 

That seems to basically be the wild card every time - I wouldn't be surprised at almost any number either.

And while she is one of the more popular recent characters, she still hasn't been able to carry a book on her own merit, and like most new characters, she is very derivative and hasn't yet had the chance to grow away from her original background and get her own identity away from Wolverine.

 

[delekkerste]

2 hours ago, NinjaSealed said:

Well, I may end up looking like the village insufficiently_thoughtful_person but I still so no way in hell it sells for only 15k. $60k is my upper range bidding war number if a couple people really want it, but I would be shocked at anything less than $35k-40k.

I'm curious why everyone thinks it goes for ~$15k? Is it the artist? The fact that it is newer art and is kind of unfinished compared to the published cover? The fact that it is only a little over 10 years old? Technically not a first appearance since she was a cartoon character first?

My prediction:  $17,925 ($15K hammer plus the BP)

I think it's a cool piece, but, if I'm playing Devil's Advocate, I might argue:

- doesn't present all that impressively - pencils are not tight, no inks, lots of white space

- NYX #4 cover is more memorable/representative

- most guys my age have never heard of the artist nor have read the book (I would wager that many didn't even know who the character was before this film), which is a problem because most of the deep pockets who are willing to spend $60K on a piece are the 40 and 50-somethings (and 60-something Jim H.)  "tfish" is one of the few guys in this cohort who would be willing to pay up given his collecting focus (though I would wager he's never even read NYX #3), but only to a point

- most fans of the character are younger collectors, who may very well stretch beyond their comfort zones to get a big/"key" piece, but few would be capable of swinging a purchase more than $20K, let alone $60K

- there are (many) more significant first appearances (or just other great OA) that would sell for considerably less than $60K.  This one just doesn't comp well at prices above $15-20K IMO.  Not that it couldn't get there, but you would think it would hit a wall long before $60K, and probably well before $35-40K as well. 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by delekkerste

[Solar]

If everyone on this board is coming in at $15K, I'll take the over. 

The book is an $850 CGC 9.8 modern that is not a variant, condition rarity or super low print run book. That's extremely tough to pull off. The character is one of the most popular of the modern era, already well represented in a killer movie that I'm sure will spin her off into the rest of the X-universe. This is her true first appearance.

The art is pencil-only, BUT there are no missing elements or details other than blurry Photoshop filters. The concept pieces would probably also allow the buyer to recoup a couple Gs if they were so inclined. Quality of the art also matters a bit less when it's a memorable first appearance (see Trimpe, Herb). Also, I had to google the NYX 4 cover - this is the one I remember.

BTW, $60K is nuts. I'll go $25K.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Solar

[malvin]

I might have to eat my shorts, but to put a controversial line, I'm decreasing my previous line of 20K to 12K and take the under.

Malvin

PS I won't eat my shorts if it is over.. 

[delekkerste]

31 minutes ago, Solar said:

Also, I had to google the NYX 4 cover - this is the one I remember.

The difference though is that the NYX #4 cover is the first appearance of who we recognize as X-23.  The #3 cover just looks like it could be any streetwalker hanging out by a lamp post.  Not being that familiar with the NYX character, I always just assumed that the #4 cover was her first appearance as it looks more like a proper first appearance/introduction.  Even if one has seen the Logan movie (I have not yet), unless you're familiar with the actual NYX #3 comic, if you saw the cover art hanging on someone's wall, would anyone guess that was X-23?  No mistaking who is on the NYX #4 cover, though.

I had a conversation last year with the owner of the Marvel Graphic Novel #4 (1st New Mutants) cover (after I acquired the New Mutants #1 cover).  His feeling was that the MGN #4 cover should be worth more than the NM #1 since it is the true first appearance of the New Mutants.  I personally disagree, because the #1 cover is better known, as it was the cover to the first issue of an ongoing series and sold many more copies/is remembered by more people than the MGN #4 cover (which is great too, don't get me wrong).  Same thing with NYX #3 and #4.  Yes, #3 is X-23's true first appearance, but #4 is the more memorable and more representative image of the character and, IMO, should be worth more, even if the #3 comic book is worth more than the #4.  I don't think comic prices and art prices always correlate perfectly.  

That said, $25K for the NYX #3?  It's possible.  If we're talking about an ending price that has a "1" or "2" in front of it, that's in the realm of possibility/probability...a "3", "4", "5" or "6", however...not impossible, but you would think less likely than the Patriots coming back from 28-3 down to win the Super Bowl. 

Edited March 10, 2017 by delekkerste

[SquareChaos]

36 minutes ago, Solar said:

If everyone on this board is coming in at $15K, I'll take the over. 

The book is an $850 CGC 9.8 modern that is not a variant, condition rarity or super low print run book. That's extremely tough to pull off. The character is one of the most popular of the modern era, already well represented in a killer movie that I'm sure will spin her off into the rest of the X-universe. This is her true first appearance.

The art is pencil-only, BUT there are no missing elements or details other than blurry Photoshop filters. The concept pieces would probably also allow the buyer to recoup a couple Gs if they were so inclined. Quality of the art also matters a bit less when it's a memorable first appearance (see Trimpe, Herb). Also, I had to google the NYX 4 cover - this is the one I remember.

BTW, $60K is nuts. I'll go $25K.

If the cover is bought in the same speculative manner as the slab, then I agree with your assessment.

If the cover is bought based of what impact the character has had, then not so much. So perhaps it will come down to the motivations behind the purchase more than the piece itself.

[NinjaSealed]

I forgot to add to the list of negatives, that there is obviously no real nostalgia attached to this piece and the fact that there are no claws out is a drawback.

I will say my opinion is coming from someone on the younger side of the collecting pool, as well as someone who also collects comics so my viewpoint may be different then many here.

The people that will go after this are the same type of people who pay $5k+ for Capullo Batman pages and $10k for published GGA heroine J Scott Campbell pin ups. The same people who see Jim Lee Hush as grail pieces.

This is the first appearance of the best property to come from Marvel since Deadpool/Venom/Gambit/Cable. It's a cover AND it comes with several concepts pieces.

 

As far as 1st App. art since the year 2000, You have WD1, WD19, and probably this to round out the top 3(I am sure I may forgetting something). Didn't the 1st app of Talon in Batman #2 N52 sell for around $15k?

This will not sell for only $15k. 

[NinjaSealed]

36 minutes ago, malvin said:

I might have to eat my shorts, but to put a controversial line, I'm decreasing my previous line of 20K to 12K and take the under.

Malvin

PS I won't eat my shorts if it is over.. 

If this sell for under $12k I will eat a piece of art from my collection. If it sells for over you offer me one of the many pieces from your collection that I drive me jealous with rage for FMV? 

[malvin]

10 minutes ago, NinjaSealed said:

If this sell for under $12k I will eat a piece of art from my collection. If it sells for over you offer me one of the many pieces from your collection that I drive me jealous with rage for FMV? 

How about this, if it goes over 12K, I will GIVE you one piece of art from my collection, but my choice  (and maybe after you receive it you will understand why - )

 

We can always discuss an FMV purchase, but many pieces in my collection are not for sale, so hopefully one of the ones that drive you jealous is for sale.

Malvin

[NinjaSealed]

1 minute ago, malvin said:

How about this, if it goes over 12K, I will GIVE you one piece of art from my collection, but my choice  (and maybe after you receive it you will understand why - )

 

We can always discuss an FMV purchase, but many pieces in my collection are not for sale, so hopefully one of the ones that drive you jealous is for sale.

Malvin

I already know it is one of your permanent collection pieces.