Joshua Middleton Nyx #3 Cover...Next HA Auction 2 2

[Brian Peck]

Please explain this whole thing to me? I am not a Middleton fan or follow X-23. This looks like a pencil prelim for the cover not the published version. Was the published cover done digitally or is the finished cover watercolour?

[Matches_Malone]

17 hours ago, Brian Peck said:

Please explain this whole thing to me? I am not a Middleton fan or follow X-23. This looks like a pencil prelim for the cover not the published version. Was the published cover done digitally or is the finished cover watercolour?

Middleton's Original Art  pieces are either  Very rough layouts or finished asstight pencils. Or somewhere in between.

I suppose the piece can be seeing as a prelim as it is made for preparation of the final finished published version.  The finished version is created  digitally with Photoshop. 

.  

Edited March 12, 2017 by Matches_Malone
Typo

[exitmusicblue]

On 3/10/2017 at 10:57 AM, NinjaSealed said:

I forgot to add to the list of negatives, that there is obviously no real nostalgia attached to this piece and the fact that there are no claws out is a drawback.

I will say my opinion is coming from someone on the younger side of the collecting pool, as well as someone who also collects comics so my viewpoint may be different then many here.

The people that will go after this are the same type of people who pay $5k+ for Capullo Batman pages and $10k for published GGA heroine J Scott Campbell pin ups. The same people who see Jim Lee Hush as grail pieces.

This is the first appearance of the best property to come from Marvel since Deadpool/Venom/Gambit/Cable. It's a cover AND it comes with several concepts pieces.

 

As far as 1st App. art since the year 2000, You have WD1, WD19, and probably this to round out the top 3(I am sure I may forgetting something). Didn't the 1st app of Talon in Batman #2 N52 sell for around $15k?

This will not sell for only $15k. 

Well put.  I say 25-35k.  I don't see under 20k happening.

[SquareChaos]

I would still enjoy the chance to read an explanation covering the whys of these supposedly true points. 

1. Can anyone explain or prop up the premise that X-23 is the best property to come out of Marvel in 30 years? Please also include an explanation that takes into account that Marvel has most successfully used her as a derivative version of Wolverine.
2. Accepting the previous 'best property' premise as true for the sake of this second argument's dependency upon it, does being the best property to come out of an almost universally agreed upon intellectually stagnant company in and of itself make that property valuable?

 

I'm more and more interested in the upcoming auction, but I'm also relatively certain that the final price is unlikely to help me with my questions in any tangible way - as is always pointed out in these type of discussions, emotion trumps logic in most (but not all) of these transactions.

[Brian Peck]

 best property to come from Marvel since Deadpool/Venom/Gambit/Cable.

****************

I disagree with this statement, X-23 is just a rip-off version of Wolverine, I do not see the originally of it compared to the characters mentioned above. The piece is a pencil prelim for a digital cover, I would be shocked if it went for over $5K. If it does the winner will have a hard time breaking even if her or she decides to sell it. Original art that gets high prices tends to have a nostalgic component to it. I see this piece as having none of that. Yes its a technically first appearance in the comics but its the appearance in the animated series where it was first. 

Best comparison would be Harley Quinn who first appeared in The Batman Adventures #12 by Mike Parobeck. I doubt the cover will go for $25K if it appeared on the market. Two Bruce Timm prelims of the cover are on Albert's site for $1K each and that is Timm's market not that its Harley Quinn's first appearance in comics. I agree its not that same but Timm drawing something associated with his biggest creation does effect the value. 

Comparing X-23 and Harley Quinn's popularity, X-23 is a blip on the screen compared to Harley Quinn. More people and especially non-comic book readers know of Quinn compared to X-23. I do not see this drawing and prelims going for the pie in the sky figures.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Brian Peck

[BCarter27]

For some reason, I feel like a dealer or speculator will win this. I don't think it will end up in the hands of someone who loves the character/artist/issue.

[exitmusicblue]

1st app. Harley cover not going for 25k?  Whaaa?  : ]

Edited March 13, 2017 by exitmusicblue

[NinjaSealed]

50 minutes ago, Brian Peck said:

 best property to come from Marvel since Deadpool/Venom/Gambit/Cable.

****************

I disagree with this statement, X-23 is just a rip-off version of Wolverine, I do not see the originally of it compared to the characters mentioned above. The piece is a pencil prelim for a digital cover, I would be shocked if it went for over $5K. If it does the winner will have a hard time breaking even if her or she decides to sell it. Original art that gets high prices tends to have a nostalgic component to it. I see this piece as having none of that. Yes its a technically first appearance in the comics but its the appearance in the animated series where it was first. 

Best comparison would be Harley Quinn who first appeared in The Batman Adventures #12 by Mike Parobeck. I doubt the cover will go for $25K if it appeared on the market. Two Bruce Timm prelims of the cover are on Albert's site for $1K each and that is Timm's market not that its Harley Quinn's first appearance in comics. I agree its not that same but Timm drawing something associated with his biggest creation does effect the value. 

Comparing X-23 and Harley Quinn's popularity, X-23 is a blip on the screen compared to Harley Quinn. More people and especially non-comic book readers know of Quinn compared to X-23. I do not see this drawing and prelims going for the pie in the sky figures.

I had a much longer response typed out, but decided to delete it and just say IMO your are very wrong.

And FWIW i'll make an open offer of $30k for the BA12 cover (assuming it's in good condition.) The chances of that cover only selling for $25k is absolutely crazy. Also not sure if you know this (or if you were implying it) but those are not prelims to the actual BA12 cover. It is for a convention variant? produced last year.

[Brian Peck]

4 minutes ago, exitmusicblue said:

1st app. Harley cover not going for 25k?  Whaaa?  : ]

What is the most a Parobeck cover has gone for? $2K? I know Burkey has his covers for $3500-4500 but that doesn't mean they will sell for that price.

[exitmusicblue]

Just now, Brian Peck said:

What is the most a Parobeck cover has gone for? $2K? I know Burkey has his covers for $3500-4500 but that doesn't mean they will sell for that price.

I could have drawn the 1st app. Harley cover and it'd go over 25k.*

 

* j/k, I'm a writer not an artist.  But you get the point.

[NinjaSealed]

3 minutes ago, Brian Peck said:

What is the most a Parobeck cover has gone for? $2K? I know Burkey has his covers for $3500-4500 but that doesn't mean they will sell for that price.

What is the second highest price for a Trimpe piece?

[Brian Peck]

4 minutes ago, NinjaSealed said:

I had a much longer response typed out, but decided to delete it and just say IMO your are very wrong.

And FWIW i'll make an open offer of $30k for the BA12 cover (assuming it's in good condition.) The chances of that cover only selling for $25k is absolutely crazy. Also not sure if you know this (or if you were implying it) but those are not prelims to the actual BA12 cover. It is for a convention variant? produced last year.

OK doesn't realize it was a convention variant. Even if you would pay that for the BA12 cover, the X-23 is waaaay down the list in terms of value from that.

 

[NinjaSealed]

1 minute ago, Brian Peck said:

OK doesn't realize it was a convention variant. Even if you would pay that for the BA12 cover, the X-23 is waaaay down the list in terms of value from that.

 

I wanted to put a price I could come up with quickly just so I wasn't puffing hot air. If I bought it, it would be to flip. I would place the over/under on the BA12 cover at $100k

[exitmusicblue]

Aye, folks may be letting the what-I-would-pay get in the way of what-it-will-go-for. 

The OA market is full of rich crazies.  A Finnish collector has most of the X-23 market cornered (according to Joyce Chin, who told me that the collector has everything original of X-23 that she ever produced).  I expect the super-collector will pull all the stops for this baby.

[Brian Peck]

49 minutes ago, NinjaSealed said:

I wanted to put a price I could come up with quickly just so I wasn't puffing hot air. If I bought it, it would be to flip. I would place the over/under on the BA12 cover at $100k

You are smoking crack! You are just pulling that price out of your . No way would that cover for for $100K. Most collectors don't even know that cover it just isn't that famous to get that price. The high prices you have seen on pieces in the high 5 figures to above is due to the artists and nostalgia. Parobeck is too minor of a character to get that price. Again I ask what is the highest price his covers have sold for. Burkey asking prices don't count. Sales are what counts.

[delekkerste]

1 hour ago, NinjaSealed said:

I wanted to put a price I could come up with quickly just so I wasn't puffing hot air. If I bought it, it would be to flip. I would place the over/under on the BA12 cover at $100k

I'll take the under.  The way under.  Specs and trophy hunters would almost certainly push it above Brian's $25K prediction, but I think the over/under is probably closer to half of your prediction, if not lower (remember, the over/under is where the odds are balanced as to where the price ends up, not the maximum potential - no way is $100K the 50/50 point for BA 12).  We've seen other big Modern first appearances offered at prices that cause too much sticker shock/cognitive dissonance and fail to sell at the outsized initial hoped-for expectation (like my TWD #19 cover).  IIRC, the Deadpool and Gambit 1st appearance covers had similar experiences, and neither sold for $100K.  

Speaking of which, you have to look at comparable prices for other 1st appearances - $100K is more than what a lot of other important 1st appearances would fetch/have fetched, and is perilously close to some 1st appearances of major vintage characters.  Finally, regarding 1st appearances, you also have to realize that "tfish" dominates this segment of the market - whatever you think something should be worth, if he doesn't agree, it's highly unlikely your prediction will be realized.  

 

1 hour ago, exitmusicblue said:

Aye, folks may be letting the what-I-would-pay get in the way of what-it-will-go-for. 

The OA market is full of rich crazies.  A Finnish collector has most of the X-23 market cornered (according to Joyce Chin, who told me that the collector has everything original of X-23 that she ever produced).  I expect the super-collector will pull all the stops for this baby.

It can't have been that difficult (financially speaking) to corner the X-23 market if it didn't include NYX #3 and/or #4, though, right?

I also think there are less rich crazies out there than you might think, and I say that as someone who has both bought and sold a number of key 1st appearance covers and pages.   

Edited March 13, 2017 by delekkerste

[Brian Peck]

7 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I'll take the under.  The way under.  Specs and trophy hunters would almost certainly push it above Brian's $25K prediction, but I think the over/under is probably closer to half of your prediction, if not lower (remember, the over/under is where the odds are balanced as to where the price ends up, not the maximum potential - no way is $100K the 50/50 point for BA 12).  We've seen other big Modern first appearances offered at prices that cause too much sticker shock/cognitive dissonance and fail to sell at the outsized initial hoped-for expectation (like my TWD #19 cover).  IIRC, the Deadpool and Gambit 1st appearance covers had similar experiences, and neither sold for $100K.  

Speaking of which, you have to look at comparable prices for other 1st appearances - $100K is more than what a lot of other important 1st appearances would fetch/have fetched, and is perilously close to some 1st appearances of major vintage characters.  Finally, regarding 1st appearances, you also have to realize that "tfish" dominates this segment of the market - whatever you think something should be worth, if he doesn't agree, it's highly unlikely your prediction will be realized.  

 

It can't have been that difficult (financially speaking) to corner the X-23 market if it didn't include NYX #3 and/or #4, though, right?

I also think there are less rich crazies out there than you might think, and I say that as someone who has both bought and sold a number of key 1st appearance covers and pages.   

Too many people throw out crazy values on what original art will sell for in auctions but don't have any historic data to back it up. Most times they are proved dead wrong. Yes some pieces do end very high in auctions but most of those prices relate in some way to historic auction data.

[NinjaSealed]

27 minutes ago, Brian Peck said:

You are smoking crack! You are just pulling that price out of your . No way would that cover for for $100K. Most collectors don't even know that cover it just isn't that famous to get that price. The high prices you have seen on pieces in the high 5 figures to above is due to the artists and nostalgia. Parobeck is too minor of a character to get that price. Again I ask what is the highest price his covers have sold for. Burkey asking prices don't count. Sales are what counts.

Again I ask to look at the spread between Trimpe Hulk 180/181 values vs his average or even best other work. It doesn't translate. Same thing for the BA12 cover. Also, I honestly thing it is a generational thing, because I don't know a collector who WOULDN'T know that cover.

[NinjaSealed]

 

22 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I'll take the under.  The way under.  Specs and trophy hunters would almost certainly push it above Brian's $25K prediction, but I think the over/under is probably closer to half of your prediction, if not lower (remember, the over/under is where the odds are balanced as to where the price ends up, not the maximum potential - no way is $100K the 50/50 point for BA 12).  We've seen other big Modern first appearances offered at prices that cause too much sticker shock/cognitive dissonance and fail to sell at the outsized initial hoped-for expectation (like my TWD #19 cover).  IIRC, the Deadpool and Gambit 1st appearance covers had similar experiences, and neither sold for $100K.  

Speaking of which, you have to look at comparable prices for other 1st appearances - $100K is more than what a lot of other important 1st appearances would fetch/have fetched, and is perilously close to some 1st appearances of major vintage characters.  Finally, regarding 1st appearances, you also have to realize that "tfish" dominates this segment of the market - whatever you think something should be worth, if he doesn't agree, it's highly unlikely your prediction will be realized.  

 

 

I think putting the top 90's-current 1st app/key work up at this time may yield results that would surprise people, I think the market has come a long way in even the past few years on many of those works. 

Hell I am kind of hoping I am wrong. Maybe I should throw some wanted ads with prices out there on the modern works out there I would pay apparently crazy prices for and see if I can land some.

[malvin]

7 minutes ago, NinjaSealed said:

Again I ask to look at the spread between Trimpe Hulk 180/181 values vs his average or even best other work. It doesn't translate. Same thing for the BA12 cover. Also, I honestly thing it is a generational thing, because I don't know a collector who WOULDN'T know that cover.

Brian, now you are being called old

Malvin