Joshua Middleton Nyx #3 Cover...Next HA Auction 2 2

[NinjaSealed]

It may be fun to throw out a bunch of recent "comps" for 1st app. work to see how crazy some of this stuff has went for recently

This one was particularly nuts https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/marc-silvestri-and-dan-green-uncanny-x-men-221-splash-page-1-mr-sinister-original-art-marvel-1987-/a/7124-92230.s?ic4=OtherResults-SampleItem-071515

 

[delekkerste]

4 minutes ago, NinjaSealed said:

It may be fun to throw out a bunch of recent "comps" for 1st app. work to see how crazy some of this stuff has went for recently

This one was particularly nuts https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/marc-silvestri-and-dan-green-uncanny-x-men-221-splash-page-1-mr-sinister-original-art-marvel-1987-/a/7124-92230.s?ic4=OtherResults-SampleItem-071515

 

Doesn't seem like such a crazy price to me for the very first Mr. Sinister appearance, and a full page splash from the main Uncanny run by fan favorite artist Marc Silvestri no less.  It's not a great image by any stretch, but I would think that $6-8K is probably the right range for it.  And, I would wager that, if someone shopped it privately to someone like "tfish", they would probably have asked for even more.  

[NinjaSealed]

Just now, delekkerste said:

Doesn't seem like such a crazy price to me for the very first Mr. Sinister appearance, and a full page splash from the main Uncanny run by fan favorite artist Marc Silvestri no less.  It's not a great image by any stretch, but I would think that $6-8K is probably the right range for it.  And, I would wager that, if someone shopped it privately to someone like "tfish", they would probably have asked for even more.  

That $6-8k is almost entirely based on the fact that it is the first shot of Mr. Sinister don't you think? It has very little to do with UXM main run/being Silvestri when the quality and "cool factor" of the art are taken into account.  Mr. Sinister is not even in the top 30? characters developed since the late 80's and a crappy image of him is pulling $8k? I think it stands to reason a character like X-23, or especially Harley who also first appears on a great cover is going to have a value of multiples of that.

[SquareChaos]

1 minute ago, NinjaSealed said:

That $6-8k is almost entirely based on the fact that it is the first shot of Mr. Sinister don't you think? It has very little to do with UXM main run/being Silvestri when the quality and "cool factor" of the art are taken into account.  Mr. Sinister is not even in the top 30? characters developed since the late 80's and a crappy image of him is pulling $8k? I think it stands to reason a character like X-23, or especially Harley who also first appears on a great cover is going to have a value of multiples of that.

Still haven't read any examples of what makes X-23 such a top shelf character, it's just a statement that keeps getting made 

[delekkerste]

I also suspect that the BA12 cover original, like the NYX #3 original, probably doesn't present all that impressively.  There's not much in the way of detail in the art - I bet that the original looks like a coloring book drawing.  Not that people are buying it for its artistic quality, but, I do think that this would still be a factor in determining how much one would pay for it.  

[NinjaSealed]

1 minute ago, SquareChaos said:

Still haven't read any examples of what makes X-23 such a top shelf character, it's just a statement that keeps getting made 

That's the funniest thing, I am not even a Marvel guy but I think she is pretty damn cool.  FWIW I don't rank her among characters like Venom/Harley ETC at the moment, but I see the potential. Oh yeah, and the SNIKT feet. 

[NinjaSealed]

6 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I also suspect that the BA12 cover original, like the NYX #3 original, probably doesn't present all that impressively.  There's not much in the way of detail in the art - I bet that the original looks like a coloring book drawing.  Not that people are buying it for its artistic quality, but, I do think that this would still be a factor in determining how much one would pay for it.  

I agree, That would factor in on ALL of the pieces we are talking about for sure. If the NYX 3 piece doesn't perform well that will be the cause. As you mentioned before, there is A LOT of white empty space on that cover, and claws out would have made it a lot cooler. 

 

That's one of the things that make TWD #19 cover so damn cool. It might be one of the best/classic modern images there is.

Edited March 13, 2017 by NinjaSealed

[Matches_Malone]

BA12 definitely much cooler than NYx 3.   Also just being a sort of prelim pencil cover really doesn't merit the high value. I still have it somewhere under 20k

[delekkerste]

22 minutes ago, NinjaSealed said:

That $6-8k is almost entirely based on the fact that it is the first shot of Mr. Sinister don't you think? It has very little to do with UXM main run/being Silvestri when the quality and "cool factor" of the art are taken into account.  Mr. Sinister is not even in the top 30? characters developed since the late 80's and a crappy image of him is pulling $8k? I think it stands to reason a character like X-23, or especially Harley who also first appears on a great cover is going to have a value of multiples of that.

I disagree.  For example, UXM #266 Gambit pages definitely sell for less than they otherwise would because of the TERRIBLE Mike Collins art.  Of course there's a big Mr. Sinister 1st appearance premium on this page, but any Silvestri splash from his Uncanny run is going to have a decent baseline starting value.

I don't think X-23 is as big a deal (yet, anyway) as you're making her out to be.  No reason to think her 1st appearance (where she's not even recognizable as what people think of X-23) should be multiples of Mr. Sinister's except for purely speculative purposes.  I'll take the under on both your $60K and your $35-$40K.  

Harley I agree would do multiples of this X-page.  But not $100K agree.  I think it probably does $35K,  and maybe $50K in a bidding war or well-negotiated private deal.  Anything more than, say, $60K would surely be off the charts in terms of being a multi-standard deviation outlier. 

Edited March 13, 2017 by delekkerste

[NinjaSealed]

4 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

I disagree.  For example, UXM #266 Gambit pages definitely sell for less than they otherwise would because of the TERRIBLE Mike Collins art.  Of course there's a big Mr. Sinister 1st appearance premium on this page, but any Silvestri splash from his Uncanny run is going to have a decent baseline starting value.

I don't think X-23 is as big a deal (yet, anyway) as you're making her out to be.  No reason to think her 1st appearance (where she's not even recognizable as what people think of X-23) should be multiples of Mr. Sinister's except for purely speculative purposes.  I'll take the under on both your $60K and your $35-$40K.  

Harley I agree would do multiples of this X-page.  But not $100K agree.  I think it probably does $35K,  and maybe $50K in a bidding war or well-negotiated private deal.  Anything more than, say, $60K would surely be off the charts in terms of a multi-standard deviation move. 

Collins UXM #266 is relevant to the conversation for sure. Comping the baseline value for this page might be tough, just because I am not sure is there is another splash that is so bleh. The full facial jagged teeth is just  to me personally. 

When I stated my range, I fully took speculative value into the equation, I think you HAVE to on this piece. She is now a "comic household" name. She is the one thing people actual like in the god awful books Marvel is currently putting out. NYX #3 is the most valuable non short print run modern there is. FWIW I do like the NYX 3 cover better than the UXM 221 splash, and those concept drawings(the claws out one) add a lot to it for me. 

BA12 I would love to see before I really set a price, but I just can't see that cover doing sub 50k in any way.

Can we agree ASM #299 Venom splash is a 100k+ piece?

[Nexus]

2 hours ago, exitmusicblue said:

Aye, folks may be letting the what-I-would-pay get in the way of what-it-will-go-for. 

The OA market is full of rich crazies.  A Finnish collector has most of the X-23 market cornered (according to Joyce Chin, who told me that the collector has everything original of X-23 that she ever produced).  I expect the super-collector will pull all the stops for this baby.

OK. But there still needs to be an underbidder in this scenario.

[delekkerste]

2 minutes ago, NinjaSealed said:

Can we agree ASM #299 Venom splash is a 100k+ piece?

You're asking the wrong guy about that splash...I personally despise Venom as a character and that splash just makes me  and cringe in all the wrong ways. 

Monetary considerations aside, I'd much rather own the cover to ASM #299 than the end splash.  

 

 

 

[SquareChaos]

11 minutes ago, NinjaSealed said:

Collins UXM #266 is relevant to the conversation for sure. Comping the baseline value for this page might be tough, just because I am not sure is there is another splash that is so bleh. The full facial jagged teeth is just  to me personally. 

When I stated my range, I fully took speculative value into the equation, I think you HAVE to on this piece. She is now a "comic household" name. She is the one thing people actual like in the god awful books Marvel is currently putting out. NYX #3 is the most valuable non short print run modern there is. FWIW I do like the NYX 3 cover better than the UXM 221 splash, and those concept drawings(the claws out one) add a lot to it for me. 

BA12 I would love to see before I really set a price, but I just can't see that cover doing sub 50k in any way.

Can we agree ASM #299 Venom splash is a 100k+ piece?

Seeing as you bring that up, here's a post from our OA marketplace.

 

[jeBailey]

4 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

You're asking the wrong guy about that splash...I personally despise Venom as a character and that splash just makes me  and cringe in all the wrong ways. 

Monetary considerations aside, I'd much rather own the cover to ASM #299 than the end splash.  

 

 

 

I agree with you 100%. I love Spider-man and his rouge galley but not Venom.

John B.

[NinjaSealed]

4 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

You're asking the wrong guy about that splash...I personally despise Venom as a character and that splash just makes me  and cringe in all the wrong ways. 

Monetary considerations aside, I'd much rather own the cover to ASM #299 than the end splash.  

 

 

 

I have little interest in it as well, but I do think it is probably tops in 1st app. late 80's plus art. Using that as the top of the hierarchy and something like the Mr. Sinister splash I think it is helpful to plot where all the other pieces in between are roughly worth.

[delekkerste]

Just now, jeBailey said:

I agree with you 100%. I love Spider-man and his rogue's gallery but not Venom.

John B.

[NinjaSealed]

6 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

Seeing as you bring that up, here's a post from our OA marketplace.

 

and I am sure he is not the only one who would snap make that purchase at that price. That is an interesting piece to handicap as I am sure it would break $100k but $200k kind of seems impossible for it.

[delekkerste]

8 minutes ago, NinjaSealed said:

I have little interest in it as well, but I do think it is probably tops in 1st app. late 80's plus art. Using that as the top of the hierarchy and something like the Mr. Sinister splash I think it is helpful to plot where all the other pieces in between are roughly worth.

With the 1st Venom, being that it's McFarlane on main run ASM, that's a big part of the value of that page as well.  If Venom had first appeared in PPSS drawn by Sal Buscema, I doubt that we're talking about the splash being a 6-figure item (unlike with the Hulk #180 end page, as it really didn't matter who drew that 1st Wolverine).  I mean, sure, it still would be a multiple 5-figure page in that scenario, but the McSpidey cachet really adds a lot of $$$ to the value of the #299 end splash.  Which I only point out because maybe that means the scale where we're plotting the value of these other pieces doesn't really extend out as far as $100K+ when we're not talking about the limited output of a very popular and influential artist like McFarlane on a major 1st appearance. 

Edited March 13, 2017 by delekkerste

[MyNameIsLegion]

Perhaps a better comparable would be Carnage as a derivative of Venom and X-23 as a derivative of Wolverine.  Carnage had huge exposure in it's day. What nostalgia is there for NYX? What kind of print run did it have? Relatively low on both accounts  I'd wager. Two fools can bid anything up, but eliminate one of them, the real test of value is what % of the max bid does #3-5 bidder reveal? 

Edited March 13, 2017 by MYNAMEISLEGION

[NinjaSealed]

3 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

With the 1st Venom, being that it's McFarlane on main run ASM, that's a big part of the value of that page as well.  If Venom had first appeared in PPSS drawn by Sal Buscema, I doubt that we're talking about the splash being a 6-figure item (unlike with the Hulk #180 end page, as it really didn't matter who drew that 1st Wolverine).  I mean, sure, it still would be a multiple 5-figure page in that scenario, but the McSpidey cachet really adds a lot of $$$ to the value.  Which I only point out because maybe that means the scale where we're plotting the value of these other pieces doesn't really extend out as far as $100K+ when we're not talking about the limited output of a very popular and influential artist like McFarlane on a 1st appearance. 

Agree completely. It is all conjecture unless we see those pieces hit the auction block. I do however think that some of those appearances outside of Venom MAY be 6 figure pieces as well.