General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[DeadOne]

Is the information gathered by GPAnalysis even supposed to be shared the way that it is in sales threads that specifically quote it? It's very possible that I'm wrong, but my understanding of the "terms and conditions" would be that it is not.

From the GPAnalysis website:
(I've highlighted section 3 below where I believe it states it should not)

Quote

 

The following terms and conditions govern your access to and use of the GPA for COMICS (GPA) proprietary directory (the "Materials") and Online Services (the "Online Services"):

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1.1 Single Copy Subscription Access: You ("User") are hereby granted a nonexclusive, nontransferable, limited license ("Subscription Access") to access and use the Materials and Online Services made available to you on this Web site by GPA, for purposes related to research and information gathering. Your right to use this site is personal to you and you may not sub-license, transfer, sell or assign these rights to any third party without our approval. Any attempt to do so will be void. This Subscription Access is a single copy license, and permits an individual subscriber to access and use the Materials and Online Services from one unique computer terminal or PDA of their choice. User agrees to maintain no more than one (1) concurrent online session per subscription purchased, and is therefore prohibited from accessing either the Materials or Online Services via a dual-modem connection (multilink). The User will be able to access the Online Service from one further unique computer terminial or PDA, on a non-concurrent basis. De-authorization of unique computer terminals or PDAs will be allowed on a limited basis per month for the purpose of authorizing use of Online Service from a further computer terminal or PDA (if the user is not able to access the Online Service from their regular computer terminal or PDA). The materials (including directories, lists, names, data, text, graphics, photographs, software, code and scripts) provided on this Web site are copyrighted, and unauthorized use of any of these materials and/or Online Services may violate copyright and/or other laws, including the 'Digital Millennium Copyright Act.' This Subscription Access includes, to the extent permitted by applicable law, the right to obtain a printout of Materials of the Online Services and to create a single printout of Materials via commands of the User Browser application. User shall be responsible for providing, at its own expense, all communications lines, hardware, software, Online Services and other materials and technology necessary for it to access the Materials and/or Online Services. GPA shall have no responsibility for any failure of such items or any failure or limitation of the Internet or other computer hardware or software. Only individual subscribers or those authorized by their subscribing organization may access and use the Materials and/or Online Services. Additional Materials may be added to or withdrawn from the Online Services, and may be otherwise changed without notice.

1.2 Access and Use Restrictions: Except as specifically provided in Section

1.1, User is prohibited from downloading, storing, reproducing, transmitting, displaying, copying, distributing, selling, renting or using the Materials. Except as specifically provided herein, User may not access or use the Materials or Online Services in any fashion that infringes the copyrights or proprietary interests therein. User may not remove or obscure the copyright notice or other notices posted in conjunction with the Materials, nor modify the Materials in any manner. User may not distribute, sublicense, assign or transfer any rights to use the Materials, either in whole or part, to any third party. User may not decompile, disassemble, reverse engineer or otherwise manipulate any software, code, applets, images, photographs, or scripts in order to derive any source code. "Mirroring" or making available any portion of this Web site by another server is strictly prohibited. User may not decompile, disassemble, rent, lease, loan, sell, sublicense, or create derivative works from the Materials. User may not use any network monitoring or discovery software to determine the site architecture, or extract information about usage or users. User may not use any software robot, spider, electronic agent, other automatic device or manual process to monitor or copy this Web Site or the Materials without GPA's prior written permission. User may not use or otherwise export or re-export the Web Site, Materials or Online Services in violation of the export control laws and regulations of the United States of America.

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The Materials made available by GPA in connection with this Subscription Access, together with all modifications, and revisions thereto and all copyrights, trademarks, patents, trade secrets, lists, software, text, images and other intellectual and proprietary rights, title and interest relating thereto, shall at all times be and remain the property of GPA. The provisions of this clause shall survive the termination of this Agreement.

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3.1 Definition: "Confidential Information" shall mean any confidential or other proprietary information disclosed by GPA to the User hereunder, including, but not limited to, directories, lists, reports, analysis, pricing, Online Services plans, specifications, manuals, training materials, brochures, software designs and code, user names, passwords, materials, documents, and other business or technical information.

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User may cancel their subscription at any time though the GPA website. It is incumbent upon the User to provide all necessary details when cancelling. Cancellations are effective immediately, however User will be able to access the Materials and Online Services for the remainder of the current billing Term.

7. MISCELLANEOUS

If User breaches any term or condition of this Subscription Access, GPA may, in addition to any other remedies available at law or equity, deny User access to the Materials and Online Services, as well as to any other Web sites owned and/or operated by GPA. In the event that any term or condition of this Subscription Access shall, in whole or in part, be determined to be invalid, unenforceable or void for any reason, such determination shall only affect the portion of such term or condition determined to be invalid, unenforceable or void, and shall not in any way affect the remaining terms and conditions herein. Any waiver, modification, or amendment of any term or condition of this license will be effective only if in writing and signed by GPA and User. These terms and conditions (and any modifications thereto) constitute the entire agreement between GPA and User with regard to the subject matter hereof, and supersede all prior understandings and agreements, whether written or oral, as to such subject matter. Nothing contained in these terms and conditions shall be deemed to constitute either party as the agent or representative of the other party, or both parties as joint ventures or partners for any purpose.

 

 

[Ryan.]

I don't think GPA can consider publically available third party sales data to constitute its own CI.

[DeadOne]

6 minutes ago, Ryan. said:

I don't think GPA can consider publically available third party sales data to constitute its own CI.

I always wondered if all the data used by GPAnalysis was publicly available. Maybe they consider the compilation and reporting of such data, in the manner that they do, to be proprietary?

[Ryan.]

7 minutes ago, DeadOne said:

I always wondered if all the data used by GPAnalysis was publicly available. Maybe they consider the compilation and reporting of such data, in the manner that they do, to be proprietary?

The aggregation algorithm and any of its brand features, certainly. The actual sales data, I imagine not. 

[gpanalysis]

Forum members are welcome to reproduce GPA data when discussing/selling books here. This has always been perfectly fine. Hope that clarifies what you're discussing.

[DeadOne]

2 minutes ago, gpanalysis said:

Forum members are welcome to reproduce GPA data when discussing/selling books here. This has always been perfectly fine. Hope that clarifies what you're discussing.

It answers my question. Thanks. 

[gpanalysis]

2 minutes ago, DeadOne said:

It answers my question. Thanks. 

No probs. All those T&Cs can be a pain in the a** to decipher. Really, don't copy large amounts of the site, use personally and share appropriately when discussing pricing. Just common sense stuff. When we have our new website up we'll reduce that T&C text and have it in plain regular speak. 

[Bomber-Bob]

1 hour ago, Ryan. said:

While on the subject, there seems to be a rise in fuzzy, distant and just plain half azzed pictures of books in the sales forums. 

Partly to blame is the new slab design. Scanning is difficult so you have to take a pic.  

[Bomber-Bob]

9 hours ago, Red84 said:

Then I propose that if a seller chooses to list a gpa price that the community be free to respond with additional gpa price quotes within the thread.

If someone cites gpa for a 3.0 most recent sale of $2500 then I should be able to respond in the thread that a 4.0 just sold for $2000.

If someone is going to pick and choose self-serving data then that disingenuous use of gpa should be called out in their sales thread.

I second this proposal. No new rules need to be introduced. Just common sense applied to a threadkrapping definition. If a seller chooses to open up the GPA discussion, then the community can respond. Keep it confined to GPA discussion. You can't say you're CR/OW book looks like burnt toast but you can say the last sale of a CR/OW book was X. 

[skypinkblu]

3 hours ago, gpanalysis said:

Forum members are welcome to reproduce GPA data when discussing/selling books here. This has always been perfectly fine. Hope that clarifies what you're discussing.

Thanks, George:) I was wondering if it would be a problem and I was just about to write to you and ask, then I saw your post:)

 

Personally, I'd consider it more in the "useful" information category. We wouldn't call it thread crapping when someone adds some history about a specific book, story or character? As long as it's not done in a nasty or belligerent manner.

Perhaps @Architecht  will chime in with his opinion, since his opinion is the one that counts.

[Bomber-Bob]

I always thought 'threadkrapping' was a Board courtesy. Is it actual a Rule ?  I don't see it in the Architect's list of Selling Rules.  I know I see a lot of 'silliness' in sales threads that seems to be accepted but sure seems like 'krapping' to me. I remember  years ago the Boards frowning upon a Seller advertising a book as 'upgradeable to X'. Now, it's normal advertising. BTW, doesn't bother me.  So what exactly constitues a thread 'krap' ?

Edited January 5, 2019 by Bomber-Bob

[MustEatBrains]

I don't like thread crapping.  Much rather someone PM the seller if they truly misrepresent something, or if you must, report the thread and let a mod decide.  I think it's also subjective, I've seen GPA used to quote a clear outlier last sale on the high side without denoting an average, or a higher graded copy selling for less on GPA than the lower graded one up for sale.  I don't particularly like it, but as far as I'm concerned it's really up to the person making the purchase to do thier due diligence and/or ask questions before pulling the trigger unless it's something so egregious like selling a reprint as an original which folks have called out.  

Regarding the one that was brought up re: page quality, I don't think it's appropriate to derail someones sales thread pointing out OW GPA sales vs. CR/OW sales.  Where does it end?  Maybe something sold high because the book had perfect centering, should this be brought up as well?   We're all entitled to our opinions however if we start going down this path of "chiming in" on peoples sales threads you'll just get more and more people that will avoid using the boards as a selling platform.

[Ryan.]

1 hour ago, MustEatBrains said:

if we start going down this path of "chiming in" on peoples sales threads you'll just get more and more people that will avoid using the boards as a selling platform.

Truth. 

[Bomber-Bob]

5 hours ago, MustEatBrains said:

I don't like thread crapping.  Much rather someone PM the seller if they truly misrepresent something, or if you must, report the thread and let a mod decide.  I think it's also subjective, I've seen GPA used to quote a clear outlier last sale on the high side without denoting an average, or a higher graded copy selling for less on GPA than the lower graded one up for sale.  I don't particularly like it, but as far as I'm concerned it's really up to the person making the purchase to do thier due diligence and/or ask questions before pulling the trigger unless it's something so egregious like selling a reprint as an original which folks have called out.  

Regarding the one that was brought up re: page quality, I don't think it's appropriate to derail someones sales thread pointing out OW GPA sales vs. CR/OW sales.  Where does it end?  Maybe something sold high because the book had perfect centering, should this be brought up as well?   We're all entitled to our opinions however if we start going down this path of "chiming in" on peoples sales threads you'll just get more and more people that will avoid using the boards as a selling platform.

Hey, I agree and I did not, out of respect for the 'krap', bring it up in his thread. I brought it up here as an 'I hate it when a Seller does this' comment. I'm not so sure I completely agree with the buyer beware comment though. I always thought the Boards were regarded as a friendlier, no antics, type of atmosphere. I do understand your point of where does the 'krapping' end.  I still don't understand how all the silly stuff is allowed. Sometimes it takes three pages to get to the actual merchandise being sold because of all the banter. How is this not 'krapping' ?

[MustEatBrains]

12 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Hey, I agree and I did not, out of respect for the 'krap', bring it up in his thread. I brought it up here as an 'I hate it when a Seller does this' comment. I'm not so sure I completely agree with the buyer beware comment though. I always thought the Boards were regarded as a friendlier, no antics, type of atmosphere. I do understand your point of where does the 'krapping' end.  I still don't understand how all the silly stuff is allowed. Sometimes it takes three pages to get to the actual merchandise being sold because of all the banter. How is this not 'krapping' ?

I agree there is a lot of useless banter in some threads and not all the sellers fault to be fair.  I see this more as useless bumping but it is not directly challenging the seller. As for the buyer beware I stand by this, the flip side is seller beware too.  GPA is only as good as the data it receives and we know much is not reported.  I wonder how people would feel if someone posted in a sellers thread  where GPA is quoted that sales on another platform that does not report to GPA were higher than GPA, I have seen this many times.  There are just so many variables like PQ, centering, color strike etc. that can come into play.  Many threads with raw books don’t even denote PQ some don’t even provide a back cover scan.  I’m guilty of this myself as I scan the front and bc from PC then it become a PIA to open the book take a pic with iPhone and post that up as well.   I just don’t agree with what was being proposed that if a piece of GPA was quoted by a seller then it can become a free for all for others to post additional GPA data points or specifics about a book to justify a higher/lower price point in the sellers thread.  That just becomes a slippery slope IMO.  Bottom line I just think both parties should have equal responsibility.

I do respect everyone’s opinion on this though.

[skypinkblu]

6 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I always thought 'threadkrapping' was a Board courtesy. Is it actual a Rule ?  I don't see it in the Architect's list of Selling Rules.  I know I see a lot of 'silliness' in sales threads that seems to be accepted but sure seems like 'krapping' to me. I remember  years ago the Boards frowning upon a Seller advertising a book as 'upgradeable to X'. Now, it's normal advertising. BTW, doesn't bother me.  So what exactly constitues a thread 'krap' ?

Check out

#7, here. I believe that's the broad description of what not to do, that includes thread k's;)

[Park]

6 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Hey, I agree and I did not, out of respect for the 'krap', bring it up in his thread. I brought it up here as an 'I hate it when a Seller does this' comment. I'm not so sure I completely agree with the buyer beware comment though. I always thought the Boards were regarded as a friendlier, no antics, type of atmosphere. I do understand your point of where does the 'krapping' end.  I still don't understand how all the silly stuff is allowed. Sometimes it takes three pages to get to the actual merchandise being sold because of all the banter. How is this not 'krapping' ?

The “banter” part of sales threads is something that there needs to be more of around here. 

People continually bring up “community” but the last few years there has been a distinct lack thereof. Yes, there have been threads to help people out but community doesn’t mean just that. There are sooo many people here who have met each other in real life and developed real friendships and in the past, that is what that banter has been. People that really know each other goofing and having a good time in a sales thread.

There are many reasons for the lack of community here but banter in a sales thread should be smiled upon and encouraged. There were so many sales threads 5,6, 7 years ago that had as many posts with people talking to each other as actual books posted. And why not? A community should have people talking and goofing and “leaving some meat on the bone”. You want to know part of the reason why Foolkiller’s or October’s or CD4ever’s or many others threads had so much activity and sales in them? This is a huge part of the reason why. I agree regarding some earlier posts about the psychology behind wanting to not miss out and all of that as well as solid pricing but the camaraderie and inclusiveness of sales theeads in the past was a huge draw to the sales forums and these boards in general.

I am not a fan of all the rules in place and the black and white enforcement is absurd. Is it needed? Probably but adding more or questioning the need for banter in a sales thread is moving further and further away from any type of community that these board had or could possibly have again at some point.

If you didn’t feel like reading all that, I used 1500 words to say lighten up.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Park
Fat fingers

[Ryan.]

Heavy. 

[Park]

41 minutes ago, Ryan. said:

Heavy. 

I’ve missed Unfunny Ryan.

[Ryan.]

8 minutes ago, Park said:

I’ve missed Unfunny Ryan.

I'm still here. As lame as ever. Lamer even!