General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[F For Fake]

5 minutes ago, adampasz said:

Sellers *not* using PayPal friends and family, per the selling guidelines, still pay a fee to sell here.  Also, factor in the ever-rising cost of shipping and supplies...

But they're not paying a fee to sell here. They're paying Paypal a fee to use Paypal. The forums are free to sell on. If you sell through eBay, or CLink, you're paying 10%+ in listing/closing/etc fees to those venues, PLUS the 3% Paypal fee. 

[adampasz]

13 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

I think you are confused, there is no charge to sell here.

No one forces anyone to take Paypal. You could just ask for checks or money orders, but you wouldn't sell much.

Shipping and supplies will cost you the same wherever you sell, but if you sell on eBay there are fees.

 

I'm not confused, though I'm sure I need more coffee, so perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I get that I am not paying CGC anything to sell here. But costs are costs, and you need to factor those into your prices wherever you sell. I don't love everything about eBay, but I think their fees reasonable for what you get in return (reach, marketing features, etc.).

Over-priced items will be corrected by the market.  As long as sellers are honest and not mis-leading, I have no problem with whatever a seller wants to charge.

FWIW my perspective is as someone who has sold several 1000 comics, mostly on eBay, but mainly for the hobby of it.  Selling comics well requires *a lot* of effort.  I'm just saying, keep this in mind when you criticize sellers purely on price.  That's my 2¢.

Edited March 21, 2019 by adampasz

[entalmighty1]

19 minutes ago, adampasz said:

Sellers *not* using PayPal friends and family, per the selling guidelines, still pay a fee to sell here.  Also, factor in the ever-rising cost of shipping and supplies...

I'm talking about people asking 15% over GPA for books, not somebody charging $15 for shipping.  You're free to ask what you want to, but I don't understand the point.  On the rare occasions I sell, I try to list them at the price I'm willing to sell them for, not spend half the day dickering over 50 bucks.

Besides, the 3-4% Paypal is charging is pretty reasonable compared to ebay or the big auction houses.

[F For Fake]

I tend to believe (and agree with those who've stated the same) that the market sorts itself out. If people come in asking sky high prices, and no one bites, they'll adjust. If they sell, then they'll feel justified in asking the high price. I don't have a problem with anyone asking whatever they want. I don't have to buy. But i do reserve the right to make strange noises and funny faces at really ridiculous asks.

Edited March 21, 2019 by F For Fake

[skypinkblu]

6 minutes ago, adampasz said:

I'm not confused, though I'm sure I need more coffee, so perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I get that I am not paying CGC anything to sell here. But costs are costs, and you need to factor those into your prices wherever you sell. I don't love everything about eBay, but I think their fees reasonable for what you get in return (reach, marketing features, etc.).

Over-priced items will be corrected by the market.  As long as sellers are honest and not mis-leading, I have no problem with whatever a seller wants to charge.

FWIW my perspective is as someone who has sold several 1000 comics, mostly on eBay, but mainly for the hobby of it.  Selling comics well requires *a lot* of effort.  I'm just saying, keep this in mind when you criticize sellers purely on price.  That's my 2¢.

I've got a little bit of feedback on eBay myself, so I do understand, but as much as I hate using this term, you are a little new here. I have nothing against new people at all, I love new people coming, but the forum has been changing over the years and I think that is what some of us are trying to say. This is not eBay.

[skypinkblu]

Or maybe I should have said, it didn't used to be like eBay, Twitter, Fritter, or whatever books people are selling on (I know I'm showing my age;) However...

We used to be a place where people did not just come to sell and when they did, it was a collector to collector thing. It's been morphing over the years.

If people are happy with that, it's fine, but it was more user friendly in the past.

[adampasz]

18 minutes ago, entalmighty1 said:

I'm talking about people asking 15% over GPA for books, not somebody charging $15 for shipping.  You're free to ask what you want to, but I don't understand the point.  On the rare occasions I sell, I try to list them at the price I'm willing to sell them for, not spend half the day dickering over 50 bucks.

Besides, the 3-4% Paypal is charging is pretty reasonable compared to ebay or the big auction houses.

I do apologize for not being clear enough in my original post. Not trying to start any wars here. Just wanted to share some perspective now that I've been in this game for a couple years. 

To many people $50 ... or even $2 *is* worth dickering about.  Not saying it's right or wrong, but this is a matter of perspective. Everyone has a different situation.

15% markup over GPA does not seem insane to me. Maybe the seller thinks it's a hot or rare book. Maybe it presents well. Maybe the page quality is better. If it was 2X or 3X GPA you might have a point. (Also, GPA includes prices for auctions, wherein the buyer/seller dynamic is different than BINs...)

As mentioned, I think eBays fees are reasonable (if not great) for what you get. Better than paying 30% to host an app. in the Apple app. store.

Edited March 21, 2019 by adampasz

[adampasz]

7 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

I've got a little bit of feedback on eBay myself, so I do understand, but as much as I hate using this term, you are a little new here. I have nothing against new people at all, I love new people coming, but the forum has been changing over the years and I think that is what some of us are trying to say. This is not eBay.

Uh, I've been here 2.5 years. But I guess to some degree I'm still a n00b.

[skypinkblu]

1 minute ago, adampasz said:

Uh, I've been here 2.5 years. But I guess to some degree I'm still a n00b.

Well, I've been here a bit longer...and on eBay since it just about started.  However, my point is, that you came here about the same time that a lot of the price raises and some other things started, so you might not have experienced it before some of the changes. 

My concern is this... people can ask what they want and pay what they want, but I've seen a few really nice people and avid collectors get burn out  once they found that people were basically taking advantage of them. My concern relates to those kinds of members, I think it harms the hobby if they are fleeced, tricked, too naive? pick a better term, I don't drink coffee, so I have no excuse;) .

[1Cool]

Oh - I remember the days of checking the sales thread section 7 - 10 times a day to hopefully grab a great set that a collector was trying to blow out.  I may check out the mixed section once a day but the other sections I don't check out but once every couple days.  Why the change?  The boards use to be the place where people came to blow out books that were not selling (for the bigger sellers) or the books that didn't hit the grade they wanted (Greggy even sold here way back when).  Now everyone has a E-Bay store (and I do mean you the die hard collectors that never sells) and the boards are pretty much an extension of the e-bay stores.  There are the occasional sales threads that bring in a bunch of great books at lower end prices but those are swamped with buyers since nobody else is offering up anything worthwhile during the rest of the year.  I don't give away books on the boards but i tend to sell books for 10% less then I think I can get on E-Bay and blow out books a couple times a year to clear out some space.  Like October - I use to get 3 or 4 packages a week from board members and I now get a package once a month if I'm lucky.  Everyone is a comic dealer afraid to leave any meat on the bone and the sales thread is just a good indication of that.

Edited March 21, 2019 by 1Cool

[EC ed]

3 hours ago, skypinkblu said:

We used to be a place where people did not just come to sell and when they did, it was a collector to collector thing. It's been morphing over the years.

If people are happy with that, it's fine,

I, for one, am not happy with that. 

[october]

4 hours ago, skypinkblu said:

Or maybe I should have said, it didn't used to be like eBay, Twitter, Fritter, or whatever books people are selling on (I know I'm showing my age;) However...

We used to be a place where people did not just come to sell and when they did, it was a collector to collector thing. It's been morphing over the years.

If people are happy with that, it's fine, but it was more user friendly in the past.

There are just a LOT less people willing to leave any kind of money on the table. That might be collectors selling to collectors, dealers looking to just move things, etc. Everyone wants to set the new high now, on everything. It makes some sense, given the rapid price inflation. Why sell cheap now when your over the top price will be market value or less inside of six months?

The handful of guys left that are ok with leaving a little for the next guy get swamped. Everything else just sits, waiting for that end-of-the-rainbow buyer or speculator. 

Frankly, it sucks.  

Edited March 21, 2019 by october

[NP_Gresham]

Thinking of selling my collection. Seems the consensus is to not use the boards?

If I consign it, the big auction houses and dealers want to cherry pick it, leaving me boxes of middling stuff I need to deal with.

Selling it to a dealer for pennies on the dollar has no appeal. 

Much to think about.

 

[DR.X]

I'm at that point myself. Lots to kick around.

[skypinkblu]

10 minutes ago, NP_Gresham said:

Thinking of selling my collection. Seems the consensus is to not use the boards?

If I consign it, the big auction houses and dealers want to cherry pick it, leaving me boxes of middling stuff I need to deal with.

Selling it to a dealer for pennies on the dollar has no appeal. 

Much to think about.

 

I don't see any reason not to use the boards to sell, just be fair, put up good descriptions and pictures.

What people were talking about here, I believe, were people just jumping in to sell at over inflated prices, etc. 

[Jeffro.]

20 hours ago, adampasz said:

20 hours ago, skypinkblu said:

I've got a little bit of feedback on eBay myself, so I do understand, but as much as I hate using this term, you are a little new here. I have nothing against new people at all, I love new people coming, but the forum has been changing over the years and I think that is what some of us are trying to say. This is not eBay.

Uh, I've been here 2.5 years. But I guess to some degree I'm still a n00b.

And many of us have been for a lot longer and have seen first hand the changes to the overall selling approach on the boards. There are many "old timer" sellers who no longer sell here and also don't buy here much anymore, as October said. Recent years have seen an influx of folks who are here only here to sell and not interact with the community and/or are only here to try to get maximum dollars. That irks those of us who have been here when the feeling of community was a bit stronger than it is these days. This isn't ebay. This isn't Facebook or Instagram. Sadly, it's becoming more and more like that every day and in reality has been trending that way for a few years now. 

Another uncomfortable reality is that oftentimes selling on ebay will bring a much better return than here. That's kind of an elephant in the room but I've seen people make that comment many times over the years.

By the way, I'm still a noob to folks who signed up before me. It's kinda like a board meme. Don't take it personally.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Jeffro.

[FineCollector]

19 hours ago, F For Fake said:

I tend to believe (and agree with those who've stated the same) that the market sorts itself out. If people come in asking sky high prices, and no one bites, they'll adjust. If they sell, then they'll feel justified in asking the high price. I don't have a problem with anyone asking whatever they want. I don't have to buy. But i do reserve the right to make strange noises and funny faces at really ridiculous asks.

That's the thing, there's nothing stopping someone from clogging up the sales thread with overpriced junk.   We're not allowed to say anything, or it just looks like threadkrapping.  At least on Facebook, you can tag the post with a  emoji to tell the guy he's taken a knock to the head.

[telerites]

10 hours ago, FineCollector said:

That's the thing, there's nothing stopping someone from clogging up the sales thread with overpriced junk.   We're not allowed to say anything, or it just looks like threadkrapping.  At least on Facebook, you can tag the post with a  emoji to tell the guy he's taken a knock to the head.

But if you comment/post in the thread, you would keep bumping it up to the top.  I do believe someone can ask whatever they want and who would have jurisdiction to say the price is too high and either have the seller lower or remove the thread.  I don't disagree that it is ludicrous when I see some prices but I just move on.    

What bothers me more is the grading by some folks.  To me anyway, the assigned grades are optimistic to say the least (and I talking about raws, of course).  Now that drives me 

[crassus]

14 hours ago, telerites said:

But if you comment/post in the thread, you would keep bumping it up to the top.  I do believe someone can ask whatever they want and who would have jurisdiction to say the price is too high and either have the seller lower or remove the thread.  I don't disagree that it is ludicrous when I see some prices but I just move on.    

What bothers me more is the grading by some folks.  To me anyway, the assigned grades are optimistic to say the least (and I talking about raws, of course).  Now that drives me 

Its interesting to compare the two issues, as price is in some ways looser and more "it is what it is" than grading, where in theory there is supposed to be some broad guidelines for what is VG vs. F vs VF etc....I agree the grading is more serious, since there is an element of "due diligence" to taking care to grade carefully and accurately, whereas price is more a mix of impulse, opportunity and circumstances. A seller's grading could be tight but still wildly overpriced, equally on another occasion they could be desperate for cash and underpricing it to move, but either way it means nothing if you have no confidence in the grading. 

[skypinkblu]

15 hours ago, telerites said:

But if you comment/post in the thread, you would keep bumping it up to the top.  I do believe someone can ask whatever they want and who would have jurisdiction to say the price is too high and either have the seller lower or remove the thread.  I don't disagree that it is ludicrous when I see some prices but I just move on.    

What bothers me more is the grading by some folks.  To me anyway, the assigned grades are optimistic to say the least (and I talking about raws, of course).  Now that drives me 

This brings up an interesting point. Sometimes I think the slab grades are a bit optimistic. Have you ever seen anyone mention that? I know we have sales posts all the time indicating that the slab grade is too low, but mistakes do work both ways.