General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[skypinkblu]

BTW, there is nothing wrong with posting a grade and saying you are not sure and why. I have done that many times, no one has every complained.

[Bird]

13 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

Please don't take what I said personally, as I have no complaints with you.  However, when someone prices a book  it's hard to price things unless you understand the grading process.

I'm not just talking about 4 figure books, I'm talking about $10 books as well. I don't want to spend $10 on a book that I'm told is NM and find out it's a Good and if you take pictures of books in bags without grades, it's hard to judge anything. Lighting hides defects as well, pictures are not always worth 1,000 words, not in these days of photo shop, cell phone, editing, etc.  Someone I'm very fond of sells here and has stopped posting grades, I don't know why, except I guess he doesn't want to argue grading. I really don't look at his threads anymore.

I buy 4 figure books, I also buy $10 books, or $3 books, I don't think it makes a huge difference to me as a collector. I might not file a complaint about a $10 book, but I want to get what I think I'm buying.

What has changed over the years is all about money.  It's no longer collector to collector, it's entrepreneur to collector a lot of times and many of those entrepreneurs have never even opened a comic to look inside, they are just here to make money because they know that comics have become something that people want.

I took nothing personal, it is all good. Yes pictures in bags present problems (although I do it sometimes as well but I know it is sloppy and always state I would be happy to add more pictures). I agree with much of what you say as well but I was reacting to the post that said those who cannot estimate grades should not sell here. I think that is extreme. Grades are not helpful either if they are manipulated in a similar fashion to what you are saying about pictures. But again, buyers have the right to move on as you do if they are not comfortable. But they can also learn about the seller and buy with faith if that has been earned.

I don't buy many raw books online myself for the reasons that you state. Seeing them in person means a lot. 99% of the books I buy in person are raw (probably 100% but you get the idea) and 90% of those I buy online are slabbed. That works for me.

10 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

BTW, there is nothing wrong with posting a grade and saying you are not sure and why. I have done that many times, no one has every complained.

Yes I changed a grade in my last sale based on feedback and added the relevant defects. I used to put a disclaimer in there somewhere but am more comfortable with grading now, although not all books get grades. like you noted, people may not complain they may just move on. I encourage questions and try to respond as best that I can. There is nothing wrong with asking a few questions about items you may potentially want to purchase.

And I have no complaints with you either! 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Bird
I left out the word "no" before complaints!!!! D'OH!

[DR.X]

If I"m going to plop down hundreds of dollars for a book, I personally want to see an " assigned " grade so I can check and see if I am getting my money's worth. To me, not attaching a grade to books like this is like e bay where sellers say " you be the judge " or " see for yourself ". Why is this book XXXX hundreds of dollars? You came up with that price how? And there is no grade. Look, we have a grading section. Sometimes I need opinions too and  double check what I see. If your not sure about a grade, give it a run by there and I'm sure you can get it in the ball park, and then assign a grade to it, and a price in line with that grade. Not a mystery price, and why it's that price. Now it's time to go for a ride on my Harley. I have bigger fish to fry tonight.

[Mr Sneeze]

2 hours ago, Bird said:

2 hours ago, Mr Sneeze said:

Not to sound crass but if you can’t estimate a grade for a book then you need to move on to other selling venues.

Not true. I have done very well selling here and when I started I couldn't grade worth squat. I am better now but still rely on help to establish grades. Customer service and reasonable pricing go a long way, especially 'round here.

I certainly didn't mean you, your one of the good ones

[Bird]

4 minutes ago, Mr Sneeze said:

I certainly didn't mean you, your one of the good ones

That is so nice of you to say. Thank you. I try but I make mistakes too.

I was stunned to see a thread a while ago where someone was asking for advice on selling and got a response of "watch someone who sells here a lot and do what they do, like bird". I stepped in and corrected them quickly. I am so lost at times.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Bird
And I have come a long way too! I know that much!!!

[Bird]

I gotta say, when I need to establish my bona fides in person I just say that I sell here regularly. People generally know that means that the boards do not tolerate fools very well. (I have y'all fooled, as I am a foole myself. Like George Carlin, I spell it with a silent "e" to pizz people off.)

[Logan510]

1 hour ago, Bird said:

I gotta say, when I need to establish my bona fides in person I just say that I sell here regularly. People generally know that means that the boards do not tolerate fools very well. (I have y'all fooled, as I am a foole myself. Like George Carlin, I spell it with a silent "e" to pizz people off.)

Please don't take this the wrong way as I have never bought from you, but there are plenty of people on here who can't grade for shiz and they sell a lot of books 

[Bird]

4 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

Please don't take this the wrong way as I have never bought from you, but there are plenty of people on here who can't grade for shiz and they sell a lot of books 

I’m not sure there’s more than one way to take that but why would I take that personally?  That’s kind of my point the market will decide if sellers are worth buying from

[DR.X]

26 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

1 hour ago, Bird said:

I gotta say, when I need to establish my bona fides in person I just say that I sell here regularly. People generally know that means that the boards do not tolerate fools very well. (I have y'all fooled, as I am a foole myself. Like George Carlin, I spell it with a silent "e" to pizz people off.)

Please don't take this the wrong way as I have never bought from you, but there are plenty of people on here who can't grade for shiz and they sell a lot of books 

Oh yeah..................................... Macho Man?

Edited May 10, 2019 by DR.X

[Logan510]

6 minutes ago, DR.X said:

Oh yeah..................................... Macho Man?

I didn't name names for a reason 

[DR.X]

13 minutes ago, Logan510 said:

20 minutes ago, DR.X said:

Oh yeah..................................... Macho Man?

I didn't name names for a reason 

Wouldn't matter. You know we have " special people " on here.

[greggy]

17 minutes ago, DR.X said:

Wouldn't matter. You know we have " special people " on here.

[DavidTheDavid]

On 5/8/2019 at 4:59 PM, october said:

Thinking around June 21st. I will try to have some nice stuff. 

I will be on vacation and with poor internet access. So yes, you can help my marriage by doing this on June 21.

 

[crassus]

One thing that for me defines the relationship of seller to buyer is "risk". In deciding whether to buy a given book many factors either increase or decrease risk. For me the more information that is available to the buyer helps reduce their risk in making the purchase. We are all selling here mail order based on scans or pics and written descriptions, so the better the pics/scans, the more the information, the less uncertainty a buyer will have in making a decision. Some buyers accept more risks, yes, others much less so, but the more potential risks you get covered as a seller the greater number of potential buyers you have for any given item. As the books continue to get more expensive across the board, the risk level on raw books especially will continue to increase. 

 

 

[crassus]

19 hours ago, skypinkblu said:

 

What has changed over the years is all about money.  It's no longer collector to collector, it's entrepreneur to collector a lot of times and many of those entrepreneurs have never even opened a comic to look inside, they are just here to make money because they know that comics have become something that people want.

I agree completely. The difficulty with the entrepreneur is that they see a commodity, but the comic is only a commodity when its slabbed, because the slabbing is what removes critical levels of risk and creates the "gpa" effect of treating slabbed keys as stocks. But when the book is raw it is not a commodity, it is then only a "great unknown" embedded with massive risks. 

[fastballspecial]

On 5/10/2019 at 1:31 PM, DR.X said:

If I"m going to plop down hundreds of dollars for a book, I personally want to see an " assigned " grade so I can check and see if I am getting my money's worth. To me, not attaching a grade to books like this is like e bay where sellers say " you be the judge " or " see for yourself ". Why is this book XXXX hundreds of dollars? You came up with that price how? And there is no grade. Look, we have a grading section. Sometimes I need opinions too and  double check what I see. If your not sure about a grade, give it a run by there and I'm sure you can get it in the ball park, and then assign a grade to it, and a price in line with that grade. Not a mystery price, and why it's that price. Now it's time to go for a ride on my Harley. I have bigger fish to fry tonight.

 

I agree. On one hand they cant ask for $100 because they think the book is NM, but not assign that grade. This new bunch of ebay sellers
don't seem to understand that. They refuse to learn how to grade.

[fastballspecial]

On 5/10/2019 at 12:49 PM, skypinkblu said:

Please don't take what I said personally, as I have no complaints with you.  However, when someone prices a book  it's hard to price things unless you understand the grading process.

I'm not just talking about 4 figure books, I'm talking about $10 books as well. I don't want to spend $10 on a book that I'm told is NM and find out it's a Good and if you take pictures of books in bags without grades, it's hard to judge anything. Lighting hides defects as well, pictures are not always worth 1,000 words, not in these days of photo shop, cell phone, editing, etc.  Someone I'm very fond of sells here and has stopped posting grades, I don't know why, except I guess he doesn't want to argue grading. I really don't look at his threads anymore.

I buy 4 figure books, I also buy $10 books, or $3 books, I don't think it makes a huge difference to me as a collector. I might not file a complaint about a $10 book, but I want to get what I think I'm buying.

What has changed over the years is all about money.  It's no longer collector to collector, it's entrepreneur to collector a lot of times and many of those entrepreneurs have never even opened a comic to look inside, they are just here to make money because they know that comics have become something that people want.

We think too much alike. 

I wont touch a sales thread if the seller wont take the time to give me a grade. 
Its not rocket science and you don't have to be perfect. 

Every year here on this board I sell around 500+ books. Do I get them all right?
No, but I try real hard and if I do misgrade its usually not by much.

Keep in mind you are developing relationships as you sell. Those relationships last for years.
Buyers on here have grown to expect a higher standard on this board than ebay and I think
its fair to ask that.
 

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by fastballspecial

[DavidTheDavid]

15 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

I agree. On one hand they cant ask for $100 because they think the book is NM, but not assign that grade. This new bunch of ebay sellers
don't seem to understand that. They refuse to learn how to grade.

In fairness, I imagine some of them are just trying to avoid complaints about the grading as a reason for a return. I have had only one return on ebay for grading, but even so, I use this disclaimer: "I grade this comic as a NM-. Please see the scans and pictures to make your own best judgment as to grade. I'm not a professional grader, and I'm guessing that you aren't either. While I try to be consistent and accurate, my grading is ultimately subjective, as is anyone else's. Regardless, I do accept returns."

I've seen plenty of dealers at shows that put only prices and not grades on books. 

[DR.X]

15 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

Keep in mind you are developing relationships as you sell. Those relationships last for years.
Buyers on here have grown to expect a higher standard on this board than ebay and I think
its fair to ask that.
 

 

This, you develop a customer base on how you grade and treat people. People do not forget how you run a thread and how good you respond, pack, and ship. It's all part of the process. Hassle free returns on anything you sell are always a big plus too.

[fastballspecial]

24 minutes ago, DavidTheDavid said:

16 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

I agree. On one hand they cant ask for $100 because they think the book is NM, but not assign that grade. This new bunch of ebay sellers
don't seem to understand that. They refuse to learn how to grade.

In fairness, I imagine some of them are just trying to avoid complaints about the grading as a reason for a return. I have had only one return on ebay for grading, but even so, I use this disclaimer: "I grade this comic as a NM-. Please see the scans and pictures to make your own best judgment as to grade. I'm not a professional grader, and I'm guessing that you aren't either. While I try to be consistent and accurate, my grading is ultimately subjective, as is anyone else's. Regardless, I do accept returns."

I've seen plenty of dealers at shows that put only prices and not grades on books. 

Avoiding complaints by not putting a grade is an excuse not a reason honestly. As a buyer it masks a problem. Don't ask for top dollar
if you cant grade a book. See here is the rub. Sellers want it both ways. They want a NM price, but they don't want to pony up and give
the NM grade because they might be wrong. It doesn't go both ways. Either ask for less money because the seller is either to lazy or
inexperienced to grade it or get out an Overstreet, Go to the PGM my book thread here, and enter the grading contests that are put on by 
Board members twice a year. 

As long as you put a grade then you have done your best. I would take out the not a professional grader comment that pisses off some buyers.

Every grade is subjective correct and I as well have had the discussion periodically for all types of reasons because some defects are very hard to 
quantify. I don't get it right all the time, but my buyers appreciate I tried and I try to list any defect I see regardless of the grade I give it.

There is a difference at being at a show where you can see the book, feel it and look it over and an online selling thread or ebay where you can't.

Sorry if that some of that was harsh, but there is a lot of money that changes hands on this board every day. Would you pony up a bunch of cash to 
seller on here who didn't give a grade?

 

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by fastballspecial