General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[comicdonna]

11 hours ago, SOTIcollector said:

I saw that.  I've always taken it for granted that both the buyer and seller were bound by the rules to honor a sale.  This caused me to re-read the rules, and I was surprised to find that there's nothing in them saying that people should honor their commitments. 

If a buyer doesn't hold up their end of the bargain, don't they risk probation?

Shouldn't the same standard hold for sellers?

Oh, and the seller posted a total BS excuse of "I was tired when I posted this."  But if there was a whole conversation about it being pressed or not, the seller had PLENTY of opportunity to recognize a mistake caused by being "tired" and pull the book from sale.  

Both buyer or seller can be held liable for failing to uphold their end of the deal.  

[miraclemet]

12 hours ago, SOTIcollector said:

Oh, and the seller posted a total BS excuse of "I was tired when I posted this."  But if there was a whole conversation about it being pressed or not, the seller had PLENTY of opportunity to recognize a mistake caused by being "tired" and pull the book from sale.  

Yep, there were at least a dozen posts by the seller in the thread after the IH141 "slipped thru" plus lots of PMs it seems. And the whole time he didnt bother to go back and pull it...

[HighRadArt]

3 hours ago, comicdonna said:

Both buyer or seller can be held liable for failing to uphold their end of the deal.  

Im not trying to take sides but from his own rules...

I guess the rules supreme on these boards. First one to respond with a take it wins, no matter what, I'm fine with that. 

[Beige]

Does anyone else prefer it when a sales thread is restricted to say, 8 pages or 72 hours of steady listing then closed and another starts if the seller has more?

 

I'd like a think about having a limit imposed, or a definate stop time to a thread and when to get a new one started.

 

An 80 page thread running over 3 months (not aiming at anyone particular, just an example scenario) doesn't persuade me to go through it, then find a book  I wanted is sold 21 pages later.

 

The other thing:

 

List books one at a time with prices - I can tell you now - an opening post with 30 book titles, grades and prices, does not tempt me to scroll through the next 3 pages of pics, go back, check the price, go back again...etc etc  

 

Some threads are now very long and very messy - and costing them sales.  

 

[DR.X]

5 hours ago, Beige said:

List books one at a time with prices - I can tell you now - an opening post with 30 book titles, grades and prices, does not tempt me to scroll through the next 3 pages of pics, go back, check the price, go back again...etc etc  

+1

[Ryan.]

7 hours ago, Beige said:

An 80 page thread running over 3 months (not aiming at anyone particular, just an example scenario) doesn't persuade me to go through it, then find a book  I wanted is sold 21 pages later.

 

The other thing:

 

List books one at a time with prices - I can tell you now - an opening post with 30 book titles, grades and prices, does not tempt me to scroll through the next 3 pages of pics, go back, check the price, go back again...etc etc  

 

Some threads are now very long and very messy - and costing them sales.  

 

I agree with with all of this. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Ryan.

[Ryan.]

Been a rough week for this seller:

 

[Dick Pontoon]

I have to agree with Ryan, because he's a smart feller. And I have to agree with Dr.X, since I was taught to respect my elders.

 

[agamoto]

On 10/20/2020 at 6:28 PM, SOTIcollector said:

Oh, and the seller posted a total BS excuse of "I was tired when I posted this."  But if there was a whole conversation about it being pressed or not, the seller had PLENTY of opportunity to recognize a mistake caused by being "tired" and pull the book from sale.  

FYI, and at the risk of flogging dead horses here, that wasn't an excuse for why I didn't accept the take. That was the excuse for why the book was being offered on the site in the first place. 

When I was asked if it was pressed by Miraclemet, I looked at it under the loupe light and recalled that this was one of several slabs I intended to CPR and that's when I informed Miraclemet, who had not yet dropped a "take" on either of the books he expressed interest in, that I was intent on pulling the book. 

Due to his experience with sellers in his past, and because I was not able to pull the ad soon enough, he assumed my intent to pull the book was a stunt to get him to commit to the sale, and he dropped his "take" on the item 16 minutes later, before I had a chance to alter the ad. 

Perhaps it's worth noting that prior to this incident, there was another book which should not have made the cut on my late Sunday night posting spree, a book where I did in fact honor the sale as the "take" was committed to in PM... That was the Daredevil 17.

As I've said before, had Miraclemet committed to the sale prior to me choosing to pull the book, I would have honored that commit. It escapes me how anyone thinks a seller should NOT have that right to remove a book from sale at any time when no commitment has been made on that book.  

Had I not needed to respond to my client a minute after I told him I was pulling the book, or if I had been more alert and didn't have difficulty and confusion with image sizing, and an almost immediate PM bombardment when I started posting the books, none of this would have happened.

Anyways, my takeaway from all this is to be 100% sure about what is being posted in advance. Then, to make it very clear to buyers that if they are in any way remotely interested in a book, they should slap a "take" or a "pending take" on it, publicly or privately, even if the intent is merely to request a deal on a bundle or some other arrangement. I would always allow someone to back out of that take if they decide the price or deal isn't right for them or the condition or other specifics aren't to their liking provided they make that determination within a reasonable period of time and not hold the book up for a day or two when it could have sold to someone else willing to accept my price and conditions.

 

 

[skypinkblu]

8 minutes ago, agamoto said:

FYI, and at the risk of flogging dead horses here, that wasn't an excuse for why I didn't accept the take. That was the excuse for why the book was being offered on the site in the first place. 

When I was asked if it was pressed by Miraclemet, I looked at it under the loupe light and recalled that this was one of several slabs I intended to CPR and that's when I informed Miraclemet, who had not yet dropped a "take" on either of the books he expressed interest in, that I was intent on pulling the book. 

Due to his experience with sellers in his past, and because I was not able to pull the ad soon enough, he assumed my intent to pull the book was a stunt to get him to commit to the sale, and he dropped his "take" on the item 16 minutes later, before I had a chance to alter the ad. 

Perhaps it's worth noting that prior to this incident, there was another book which should not have made the cut on my late Sunday night posting spree, a book where I did in fact honor the sale as the "take" was committed to in PM... That was the Daredevil 17.

As I've said before, had Miraclemet committed to the sale prior to me choosing to pull the book, I would have honored that commit. It escapes me how anyone thinks a seller should NOT have that right to remove a book from sale at any time when no commitment has been made on that book.  

Had I not needed to respond to my client a minute after I told him I was pulling the book, or if I had been more alert and didn't have difficulty and confusion with image sizing, and an almost immediate PM bombardment when I started posting the books, none of this would have happened.

Anyways, my takeaway from all this is to be 100% sure about what is being posted in advance. Then, to make it very clear to buyers that if they are in any way remotely interested in a book, they should slap a "take" or a "pending take" on it, publicly or privately, even if the intent is merely to request a deal on a bundle or some other arrangement. I would always allow someone to back out of that take if they decide the price or deal isn't right for them or the condition or other specifics aren't to their liking provided they make that determination within a reasonable period of time and not hold the book up for a day or two when it could have sold to someone else willing to accept my price and conditions.

 

 

Unless you have something with a time on it, all we can see is a take it posted on the thread while the book was available.

Just a tip...if you make a mistake, it would be better for your reputation to honor the sale...period. 
People make mistakes, I've made plenty of mistakes. Twice people pointed out typos and I fixed them. More than once I posted a lower price than I should have and I honored the sale.

The difference in money is not worth my reputation.

[thehumantorch]

20 minutes ago, agamoto said:

FYI, and at the risk of flogging dead horses here, that wasn't an excuse for why I didn't accept the take. That was the excuse for why the book was being offered on the site in the first place. 

When I was asked if it was pressed by Miraclemet, I looked at it under the loupe light and recalled that this was one of several slabs I intended to CPR and that's when I informed Miraclemet, who had not yet dropped a "take" on either of the books he expressed interest in, that I was intent on pulling the book. 

Due to his experience with sellers in his past, and because I was not able to pull the ad soon enough, he assumed my intent to pull the book was a stunt to get him to commit to the sale, and he dropped his "take" on the item 16 minutes later, before I had a chance to alter the ad. 

Perhaps it's worth noting that prior to this incident, there was another book which should not have made the cut on my late Sunday night posting spree, a book where I did in fact honor the sale as the "take" was committed to in PM... That was the Daredevil 17.

As I've said before, had Miraclemet committed to the sale prior to me choosing to pull the book, I would have honored that commit. It escapes me how anyone thinks a seller should NOT have that right to remove a book from sale at any time when no commitment has been made on that book.  

Had I not needed to respond to my client a minute after I told him I was pulling the book, or if I had been more alert and didn't have difficulty and confusion with image sizing, and an almost immediate PM bombardment when I started posting the books, none of this would have happened.

Anyways, my takeaway from all this is to be 100% sure about what is being posted in advance. Then, to make it very clear to buyers that if they are in any way remotely interested in a book, they should slap a "take" or a "pending take" on it, publicly or privately, even if the intent is merely to request a deal on a bundle or some other arrangement. I would always allow someone to back out of that take if they decide the price or deal isn't right for them or the condition or other specifics aren't to their liking provided they make that determination within a reasonable period of time and not hold the book up for a day or two when it could have sold to someone else willing to accept my price and conditions.

 

 

From your sales thread.

"I guess the rules supreme on these boards. First one to respond with a take it wins, no matter what, I'm fine with that."

You're clearly violating your own rules.  'no matter what' is deliciously ironic.

'Then, to make it very clear to buyers that if they are in any way remotely interested in a book, they should slap a "take" or a "pending take" on it '

Isn't that exactly what happened?  Buyer slapped a  on a book you listed for sale

"I would always allow someone to back out of that take if they decide the price or deal isn't right for them or the condition or other specifics aren't to their liking provided they make that determination within a reasonable period of time and not hold the book up for a day or two when it could have sold to someone else willing to accept my price and conditions"

I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion other than to say you would let a buyer back out of a deal and thus you should be able to back out of a deal.  Sorry, that's not how it works here.

 

[agamoto]

29 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

Unless you have something with a time on it, all we can see is a take it posted on the thread while the book was available.

Just a tip...if you make a mistake, it would be better for your reputation to honor the sale...period. 
People make mistakes, I've made plenty of mistakes. Twice people pointed out typos and I fixed them. More than once I posted a lower price than I should have and I honored the sale.

The difference in money is not worth my reputation.

I guess the problem I have with this whole "not worth the hit to my reputation" argument I keep seeing is that I made my intentions to pull the book  known to the interested party, they received that message and responded to it, and then followed that response with a take on the book regardless of what I told them and before I had a chance to change the ad.

It's not a situation where he committed to the book and then I changed my mind, It's a situation where I changed my mind, let him know this and he committed to the book anyway before I had the opportunity to change the ad. He said his experience with other sellers using pressure tactics to force a commit was his motivation for doing so, so I bear no malice against him for doing that. However, even after I thought I had made myself clear, he then proceeded to come here to grumble about the experience and participated in the subsequent shaming several here joined in on.

As I've said a dozen times already, had he committed to the sale prior to me expressing my intent to pull that ad, I would have honored it. Except he didn't approach me with a commit to any book, he wanted to talk about a bundle of two books and wanted to know if they were pressed or not.

Should a car dealer be forced to sell a car to a tire-kicker after they let that person know it's off the market and they come back 15 minutes later to see the car hasn't been removed from the lot yet or had its sticker price changed?

 

[Hudson]

@agamoto @miraclemet

Would either of you be willing to share a screen shot of the actual PMs involved so that board members can make a more informed "decision" in this dispute?

[telerites]

2 minutes ago, agamoto said:

Should a car dealer be forced to sell a car to a tire-kicker after they let that person know it's off the market and they come back 15 minutes later to see the car hasn't been removed from the lot yet or had its sticker price changed?

 

Forced, no; but I bet they would.  A different analogy may have been better than a car dealer.

If I had been your place and the timing presented is accurate, I would have immediately taken the book off the market right after letting mm know your intentions.  That wouldn't have taken but seconds to do so and it would have been in public sight instead veiled in a PM.  

It is unfortunate but it would seem from the comments that you have damaged your reputation here as a seller and my experience from being on the boards for over 13 years is that folks here have a long memory.   As others have said, it is sometimes better to forego potential financial gain and instead add credibility to your reputation (especially as a newer seller here).  I remember posting a book for $10 that should have been $100.  Someone took it and actually said they knew the mistake and didn't expect me to honor the sale.  I said it was my mistake and sold the book for $10.  I couldn't blame the buyer for my mistake.  Lesson learned was double check before posting but I had no qualms about following through with the sale at all.  I was happy the book went to someone who wanted it.

In any event, I wish you the best here and mean that sincerely.  I also hope you learn something from this experience and make efforts to prevent similar events from happening again.

 

[agamoto]

24 minutes ago, thehumantorch said:

From your sales thread.

"I guess the rules supreme on these boards. First one to respond with a take it wins, no matter what, I'm fine with that."

You're clearly violating your own rules.  'no matter what' is deliciously ironic.

'Then, to make it very clear to buyers that if they are in any way remotely interested in a book, they should slap a "take" or a "pending take" on it '

Isn't that exactly what happened?  Buyer slapped a  on a book you listed for sale

"I would always allow someone to back out of that take if they decide the price or deal isn't right for them or the condition or other specifics aren't to their liking provided they make that determination within a reasonable period of time and not hold the book up for a day or two when it could have sold to someone else willing to accept my price and conditions"

I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion other than to say you would let a buyer back out of a deal and thus you should be able to back out of a deal.  Sorry, that's not how it works here.

 

The context behind the "No matter what" comment is based upon my previous, and first, experience selling my 9.6 White GSX1 to Bob Storm.

In that situation, I had several people talking to me about trades and working through price offers. I was actually informed by someone in those private messages that according to the "rules", all negotiations in PM cease once someone puts a public "take" on a book, which I didn't even realize had happened until someone let me know.

The "no matter what", includes legitimate negotiations for the purchase or trade of a book, it doesn't include people tire-kicking and asking exploratory questions and not committing to a book. It absolutely doesn't include those same people taking advantage of the fact that I didn't yet have a chance to alter the ad, knowing full well that I intended to pull the book. 

Again, there was no deal negotiation in private with the intended buyer, he was simply asking exploratory questions and I had made my intention known that the book was being pulled at that time. Again, they did not commit to the book until AFTER acknowledging that intent in our PM's, and before I had an opportunity to alter the ad to remove it from sale.  

[HighRadArt]

14 minutes ago, agamoto said:

I guess the problem I have with this whole "not worth the hit to my reputation" argument I keep seeing is that I made my intentions to pull the book  known to the interested party, they received that message and responded to it, and then followed that response with a take on the book regardless of what I told them and before I had a chance to change the ad.

It's not a situation where he committed to the book and then I changed my mind, It's a situation where I changed my mind, let him know this and he committed to the book anyway before I had the opportunity to change the ad. He said his experience with other sellers using pressure tactics to force a commit was his motivation for doing so, so I bear no malice against him for doing that. However, even after I thought I had made myself clear, he then proceeded to come here to grumble about the experience and participated in the subsequent shaming several here joined in on.

As I've said a dozen times already, had he committed to the sale prior to me expressing my intent to pull that ad, I would have honored it. Except he didn't approach me with a commit to any book, he wanted to talk about a bundle of two books and wanted to know if they were pressed or not.

Should a car dealer be forced to sell a car to a tire-kicker after they let that person know it's off the market and they come back 15 minutes later to see the car hasn't been removed from the lot yet or had its sticker price changed?

 

No one is trying to shame you.  They're just trying to point out how the rules work here.  You've made your decision and even though I don't know you - I will add you to my list of people here to avoid.

[agamoto]

4 minutes ago, telerites said:

Forced, no; but I bet they would.  A different analogy may have been better than a car dealer.

If I had been your place and the timing presented is accurate, I would have immediately taken the book off the market right after letting mm know your intentions.  That wouldn't have taken but seconds to do so and it would have been in public sight instead veiled in a PM.  

It is unfortunate but it would seem from the comments that you have damaged your reputation here as a seller and my experience from being on the boards for over 13 years is that folks here have a long memory.   As others have said, it is sometimes better to forego potential financial gain and instead add credibility to your reputation (especially as a newer seller here).  I remember posting a book for $10 that should have been $100.  Someone took it and actually said they knew the mistake and didn't expect me to honor the sale.  I said it was my mistake and sold the book for $10.  I couldn't blame the buyer for my mistake.  Lesson learned was double check before posting but I had no qualms about following through with the sale at all.  I was happy the book went to someone who wanted it.

In any event, I wish you the best here and mean that sincerely.  I also hope you learn something from this experience and make efforts to prevent similar events from happening again.

 

Your comment is similar to many I've read. To me, there's a big difference between making a mistake in a post, having someone commit to a sale and then trying to reneg on that sale because of the mistake AFTER the fact versus deciding to pull a book from sale, telling that person you're going to pull it, and having them put their commit down anyway regardless of sharing that intent with them, AFTER the fact and THEN grumbling about that, and dragging you through the mud for it all because I didn't alter the ad in time.

As I've noted in other comments, I did indeed attempt to change the ad after I informed the interested party of my decision to yank it and before they slapped their commit down. However, I received a message from a client at that exact moment, right in the middle of editing the ad and did not finish updating it until I was done with the client around 30 minutes later. Hindsight has taught me that I could have just marked the whole thread closed, but I didn't realize at the time that I could do that, or bring the thread back to life by marking it unsold.

Had it been anyone else who had come along to "take it" during that window of time, the ad was still up, I certainly would have told them of my intent to take it down as well, and hopefully they'd understand and let it slide. If not, I absolutely would have honored it. The difference in this situation is the person doing the grumbling here knew I was pulling the ad, and they acknowledged that, yet slapped their "take" down anyway.  

[agamoto]

16 minutes ago, HighRadArt said:

No one is trying to shame you.  They're just trying to point out how the rules work here.  You've made your decision and even though I don't know you - I will add you to my list of people here to avoid.

Have you seen the thread I'm referring to? That's exactly what's happened and all attempts to explain how the "rules" are flawed and arguably being abused in this particular scenario seem to falling on deaf ears and blind eyes and all I keep hearing over and over is "just take the hit, it's not worth the reputation loss". I'm sorry, but I disagree and I'm going to speak out about it. Feel free to ignore me all you'd like. 

 

[telerites]

15 minutes ago, agamoto said:

Your comment is similar to many I've read. To me, there's a big difference between making a mistake in a post, having someone commit to a sale and then trying to reneg on that sale because of the mistake AFTER the fact versus deciding to pull a book from sale, telling that person you're going to pull it, and having them put their commit down anyway regardless of sharing that intent with them, AFTER the fact and THEN grumbling about that, and dragging you through the mud for it all because I didn't alter the ad in time.

As I've noted in other comments, I did indeed attempt to change the ad after I informed the interested party of my decision to yank it and before they slapped their commit down. However, I received a message from a client at that exact moment, right in the middle of editing the ad and did not finish updating it until I was done with the client around 30 minutes later. Hindsight has taught me that I could have just marked the whole thread closed, but I didn't realize at the time that I could do that, or bring the thread back to life by marking it unsold.

Had it been anyone else who had come along to "take it" during that window of time, the ad was still up, I certainly would have told them of my intent to take it down as well, and hopefully they'd understand and let it slide. If not, I absolutely would have honored it. The difference in this situation is the person doing the grumbling here knew I was pulling the ad, and they acknowledged that, yet slapped their "take" down anyway.  

Oftentimes, it is better to just say, thank you for your comments, I appreciate it; instead of continuing to try to validate your actions.  

Again, I wish you the best.

[skypinkblu]

1 hour ago, agamoto said:

The context behind the "No matter what" comment is based upon my previous, and first, experience selling my 9.6 White GSX1 to Bob Storm.

In that situation, I had several people talking to me about trades and working through price offers. I was actually informed by someone in those private messages that according to the "rules", all negotiations in PM cease once someone puts a public "take" on a book, which I didn't even realize had happened until someone let me know.

The "no matter what", includes legitimate negotiations for the purchase or trade of a book, it doesn't include people tire-kicking and asking exploratory questions and not committing to a book. It absolutely doesn't include those same people taking advantage of the fact that I didn't yet have a chance to alter the ad, knowing full well that I intended to pull the book. 

Again, there was no deal negotiation in private with the intended buyer, he was simply asking exploratory questions and I had made my intention known that the book was being pulled at that time. Again, they did not commit to the book until AFTER acknowledging that intent in our PM's, and before I had an opportunity to alter the ad to remove it from sale.  

Actually, that is not true, you can specify that the first take it  wherever it may be wins and that you are the one who determines the first one. We used to have time stamps on pms and posts that made it easier, but it can still be done.

Also you making the decision to pull the book after a question about pressing was asked, makes it a little tiny bit iffy about your reasoning, especially since Miraclemet is a long time well known and very well respected board member.  I would think it's very likely that you made the decision after he asked you an honest question that made you think that maybe you could get a few $$$ more for the book.

This is a great place, because we try to treat each other fairly. Those who don't treat others fairly belong on the probation list until they make up for their errors, or if the person who was not treated fairly does not want to pursue anything further...that person goes on many many private lists.